Air Intake Temps- Stillen SC

ChaseZ · 01-01-2017, 12:03 AM

Awesome! I'm in the middle of my SC install with the frozenboost. Crossed my mind to add a couple fans to pull the air through, but never got beyond the idea.

Oh and you won't fit that drain valve on the bottom unless you trim the bottom of your bumper cover and possibly the undertray. Put the plug back in

MoulaZ · 01-01-2017, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseZ

Awesome! I'm in the middle of my SC install with the frozenboost. Crossed my mind to add a couple fans to pull the air through, but never got beyond the idea.

Oh and you won't fit that drain valve on the bottom unless you trim the bottom of your bumper cover and possibly the undertray. Put the plug back in

Honestly I was just messing around. Figured it couldn't hurt to try and might be fun/interesting lol. And given how high I mounted that Exchanger I don't have any issues with that drain tap. Oh, and I got this kit second hand, didn't come with the plug heh.

Forgive some of the photos, as they were mostly taken during the mock up phases. But I had to create a lot of clearance to make those damn fans fit, it was a very tight fit. Exchanger is kissing the front bar, and there about 10mm clearance from rear of fan to PS & Oil Coolers. PS Cooler had to come back a bit, had to cut some plastic where the lines come in and take the OEM brackets bend/flip and work some magic on them. Oil Cooler now sits on flush with Radiator Support... and it was just one extra Relay for the fans, they draw about 30A.

ChaseZ · 01-01-2017, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoulaZ

Honestly I was just messing around. Figured it couldn't hurt to try and might be fun/interesting lol. And given how high I mounted that Exchanger I don't have any issues with that drain tap.

Forgive some of the photos, as they were mostly taken during the mock up phases. But I had to create a lot of clearance to make those damn fans fit, it was a very tight fit. Exchanger is kissing the front bar, and there about 10mm clearance from rear of fan to PS & Oil Coolers. PS Cooler had to come back a bit, had to cut some plastic where the lines come in and take the OEM brackets bend/flip and work some magic on them. Oil Cooler now sits on flush with Radiator Support... and it was just one extra Relay for the fans, they draw about 30A.

My mock up experiences were rather similar. Surprised you can stuff it with that valve on though - I used the same bottom mounting points and I just barely clear it as it is, no way I'd fit the valve in there too.

I ended up mounting my oil cooler inverted and pushed back on the drivers side. Could probably clear fans if they were narrow but will see how it goes without them first.

MoulaZ · 01-01-2017, 12:40 AM

Looks like you kept the tow hook, wouldn't that limit even more air reaching that Exchanger being mounted off to the side like that?

I just hacked the damn thing off.

ChaseZ · 01-01-2017, 12:47 AM

Need the hook for track days or they won't let me on.

The fangs are bigger on the 2016 fascia, this pic isn't great to show it but runs right to the edge of the cooler. Was a fair bit of messing around to get just the right tolerances to squeeze it and keep the took hook mount.

The different fascias might be the difference in fitting that vale or not too.

MoulaZ · 01-01-2017, 01:21 AM

Ahhh, that's the reason then. Yea you have the post-2013 front bar. No idea on the dimensions of that. Interesting about the tow hook and tracking. I don't track so guess I shouldn't miss it.... hopefully, hah.

BOLIO 671 · 01-02-2017, 09:02 AM

You pretty much summed it up.

If u take the car to the drag strip be sure to let her cool down l. Back to back runs are not good for the set up u have...been there and done that....Just to give u a figure I did back to back pulls.on the dyno with the same set up and I lost 10whp on my 2nd pull and almost 15whp on my 3rd run. You won't do ur car justice. Run her down the 1/4 and let her cool down for at least 15-20mins before u run her down again.

TopgunZ · 01-03-2017, 08:15 AM

The one and only advantage the water system has is for the 1/4 mile so that you can dump ice in your system and drop temps below ambient. Again, this would be the only time this would actually be an advantage and would be pointless on any other track or street since the ice will be gone in a minute.

Not to mention that it is a pain in the arse though.

MoulaZ. Your paragraph above really does sum it all up. However, I think that even one of those is still too much heat for longevity of the engine. Why does Stillen make you sign a waiver that voids your warranty to the engine when you order the 9psi pulley?? Because they know it throws reliability to it out the window from too much heat in the system. Basically saying that they don't have confidence it will last 30K miles.

MoulaZ · 01-04-2017, 10:53 PM

I can also see W2A viable for someone who just treats it as a street car, with the occasional hard boot in it every now and then. But yeah, if you wanna track your car or do more than 1 good drag run every 20 mins W2A seems immediately unviable.

I believe Stillen make you sign a waiver because they're aware of just how little cooling capacity the W2A system is capable of, in addition to the whole CARB thing. We see plenty of Turbo kits putting down more power than SC guys, and those seem reasonably reliable, if not intentionally pushing the envelope for some obscence power figure.

Up until recently, I couldn't understand why SC kits were just putting out lower numbers compared to Turbo kits, but if that conclusion I've come to above is really all the reason, heat, then provided you tackle that issue should we be able to match the Turbo guys? Compressed Air is Compressed Air, whether it comes from a Turbo, or Supercharger. Comes down to CFM & Temp, we have the CFM, now it's Temp we have to figure out an effective control. Your kit goes a LONG way to doing that, and keeping it reasonably reliable.

Cheers,
MoulaZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

The one and only advantage the water system has is for the 1/4 mile so that you can dump ice in your system and drop temps below ambient. Again, this would be the only time this would actually be an advantage and would be pointless on any other track or street since the ice will be gone in a minute.

Not to mention that it is a pain in the arse though.

MoulaZ. Your paragraph above really does sum it all up. However, I think that even one of those is still too much heat for longevity of the engine. Why does Stillen make you sign a waiver that voids your warranty to the engine when you order the 9psi pulley?? Because they know it throws reliability to it out the window from too much heat in the system. Basically saying that they don't have confidence it will last 30K miles.

ChaseZ · 01-04-2017, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoulaZ

I can also see W2A viable for someone who just treats it as a street car, with the occasional hard boot in it every now and then. But yeah, if you wanna track your car or do more than 1 good drag run every 20 mins W2A seems immediately unviable.

I believe Stillen make you sign a waiver because they're aware of just how little cooling capacity the W2A system is capable of, in addition to the whole CARB thing. We see plenty of Turbo kits putting down more power than SC guys, and those seem reasonably reliable, if not intentionally pushing the envelope for some obscence power figure.

Up until recently, I couldn't understand why SC kits were just putting out lower numbers compared to Turbo kits, but if that conclusion I've come to above is really all the reason, heat, then provided you tackle that issue should we be able to match the Turbo guys? Compressed Air is Compressed Air, whether it comes from a Turbo, or Supercharger. Comes down to CFM & Temp, we have the CFM, now it's Temp we have to figure out an effective control. Your kit goes a LONG way to doing that, and keeping it reasonably reliable.

Cheers,
MoulaZ

Supercharger rely on the crank to turn them and provide power. This takes power and lots of it. Parasitic loss of a supercharger like the V3 is probably in the neighbourhood of 80hp just to crank that blower over.

Turbos basically use exhaust gas, eliminating that parasitic loss from the drivetrain. It's like a free 80hp by comparison.

In a nutshell there is your instant difference between the two, and why supercharger tend to put out less than their turbo brethren. And as far as supercharger go th V3 is more efficient than most of the other types at 78%.

MoulaZ · 01-05-2017, 01:28 AM

I'm kinda new to Superchargers, but I know having a Turbo in the path of exhaust also also robs some power, curious how much though, like 15-30?.

And as for Superchargers I think 80hp is a bit high though for the V3, if I had to take a punt I'd say in the region of 50hp.

I've heard some general rule of thumbs like '5hp per PSI' for a Supercharger or 'for every 100hp you make, it cost 30hp for a SC & 10hp for a Turbo'. Just wonder how applicable those are to our circumstances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseZ

Supercharger rely on the crank to turn them and provide power. This takes power and lots of it. Parasitic loss of a supercharger like the V3 is probably in the neighbourhood of 80hp just to crank that blower over.

Turbos basically use exhaust gas, eliminating that parasitic loss from the drivetrain. It's like a free 80hp by comparison.

In a nutshell there is your instant difference between the two, and why supercharger tend to put out less than their turbo brethren. And as far as supercharger go th V3 is more efficient than most of the other types at 78%.

ChaseZ · 01-05-2017, 07:00 PM

I don't know what the rule of thumb is exactly, but suffice to say it robs substantially more to turn the supercharger. I put out 80 as I've heard it several times with this kit, others have speculated 100. At the end of the day it's neither here nor there though.

The Stillen kit, and information based thereon also considers both the stock Stillen heat exchanger as well as the poor MAF placement. That's the quest I'm on right now is with correcting both of those difficiencies how much better can it get as an improved air to water setup.

A similar setup to how I will be running, except full speed density tuning whereas I will likely be a hybrid when Seb tunes it finally in the coming weeks after the last parts arrive and my custom charge pipe is made, is running 525whp on the track regularly in Texas heat. And I don't mean 1320 where he's sitting at least 20 minutes between passes. I believe he has the stock V3 where mine has the si trim upgraded impeller - I also have 9 psi pulley but aren't running it until I know where this set up is capable of, or not.

JWillis72 · 01-05-2017, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseZ

I don't know what the rule of thumb is exactly, but suffice to say it robs substantially more to turn the supercharger. I put out 80 as I've heard it several times with this kit, others have speculated 100. At the end of the day it's neither here nor there though.

The Stillen kit, and information based thereon also considers both the stock Stillen heat exchanger as well as the poor MAF placement. That's the quest I'm on right now is with correcting both of those difficiencies how much better can it get as an improved air to water setup.

A similar setup to how I will be running, except full speed density tuning whereas I will likely be a hybrid when Seb tunes it finally in the coming weeks after the last parts arrive and my custom charge pipe is made, is running 525whp on the track regularly in Texas heat. And I don't mean 1320 where he's sitting at least 20 minutes between passes. I believe he has the stock V3 where mine has the si trim upgraded impeller - I also have 9 psi pulley but aren't running it until I know where this set up is capable of, or not.

How are you running the new charge pipe?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ChaseZ · 01-05-2017, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWillis72

How are you running the new charge pipe?

The same path but with BOV inline and a lengthened Y section putting the MAF right in front of the TB in separate pipes so they aren't measuring the same air.

JWillis72 · 01-05-2017, 07:22 PM

I was hoping you were going to say that, one pipe with both MAFs doesn't work.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

01-02-2017, 09:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
BOLIO 671 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: GUAHAN Posts: 1,198 Drives: To & From then Back Rep Power: 3400	You pretty much summed it up. If u take the car to the drag strip be sure to let her cool down l. Back to back runs are not good for the set up u have...been there and done that....Just to give u a figure I did back to back pulls.on the dyno with the same set up and I lost 10whp on my 2nd pull and almost 15whp on my 3rd run. You won't do ur car justice. Run her down the 1/4 and let her cool down for at least 15-20mins before u run her down again. __________________ 2013 Nismo Z34 / FI TT #091 / IG: @lilzilla_z34

01-03-2017, 08:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	The one and only advantage the water system has is for the 1/4 mile so that you can dump ice in your system and drop temps below ambient. Again, this would be the only time this would actually be an advantage and would be pointless on any other track or street since the ice will be gone in a minute. Not to mention that it is a pain in the arse though. MoulaZ. Your paragraph above really does sum it all up. However, I think that even one of those is still too much heat for longevity of the engine. Why does Stillen make you sign a waiver that voids your warranty to the engine when you order the 9psi pulley?? Because they know it throws reliability to it out the window from too much heat in the system. Basically saying that they don't have confidence it will last 30K miles. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

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01-01-2017, 12:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
ChaseZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2016 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,799 Drives: 16 370z Rep Power: 94683	Awesome! I'm in the middle of my SC install with the frozenboost. Crossed my mind to add a couple fans to pull the air through, but never got beyond the idea. Oh and you won't fit that drain valve on the bottom unless you trim the bottom of your bumper cover and possibly the undertray. Put the plug back in

01-01-2017, 12:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
ChaseZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2016 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,799 Drives: 16 370z Rep Power: 94683	Need the hook for track days or they won't let me on. The fangs are bigger on the 2016 fascia, this pic isn't great to show it but runs right to the edge of the cooler. Was a fair bit of messing around to get just the right tolerances to squeeze it and keep the took hook mount. The different fascias might be the difference in fitting that vale or not too.

01-01-2017, 01:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
MoulaZ Base Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 230 Drives: '09 Z34 BP Turbo V2 Rep Power: 25	Ahhh, that's the reason then. Yea you have the post-2013 front bar. No idea on the dimensions of that. Interesting about the tow hook and tracking. I don't track so guess I shouldn't miss it.... hopefully, hah.

01-05-2017, 07:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
ChaseZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2016 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,799 Drives: 16 370z Rep Power: 94683	I don't know what the rule of thumb is exactly, but suffice to say it robs substantially more to turn the supercharger. I put out 80 as I've heard it several times with this kit, others have speculated 100. At the end of the day it's neither here nor there though. The Stillen kit, and information based thereon also considers both the stock Stillen heat exchanger as well as the poor MAF placement. That's the quest I'm on right now is with correcting both of those difficiencies how much better can it get as an improved air to water setup. A similar setup to how I will be running, except full speed density tuning whereas I will likely be a hybrid when Seb tunes it finally in the coming weeks after the last parts arrive and my custom charge pipe is made, is running 525whp on the track regularly in Texas heat. And I don't mean 1320 where he's sitting at least 20 minutes between passes. I believe he has the stock V3 where mine has the si trim upgraded impeller - I also have 9 psi pulley but aren't running it until I know where this set up is capable of, or not.

01-05-2017, 07:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
JWillis72 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fort Myers FL Posts: 2,002 Drives: 2009 370Z yellow 7AT Rep Power: 45	I was hoping you were going to say that, one pipe with both MAFs doesn't work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk