Topgunz - air to air upgrade

turtle64b · 06-16-2019, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nic370

Which filter ? The small one supplied?

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Yes

redondoaveb · 06-16-2019, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtle64b

Data is regarding the supplied filter with the kit.

So to go back to the filter question and R&D. I installed everything, ran no filter, and saw 12.6 psi. My tuner suggested that I put the filter on to protect from grime buildup and we would continue tuning. Yesterday I put the filter on and did some pulls. The most pressure I saw was 7.6 psi, giver or take .5 psi.

To recap:
Filter off: 12.6 psi
Filter on : 7.6 psi

I've had this kit on two cars now and I've threads showing how thoroughly I've searched for leaks or low boost pressure causes. It was this simple all along...

Also, to be clear, this is a fantastic kit! Aaron has done an awesome job! Like everything else, we just find ways to make it more efficient.

You should still be seeing more than 7.6 psi with the stock filter. I was seeing a little over 10 psi with the 9 lb pulley and the stock filter.

turtle64b · 06-16-2019, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redondoaveb

You should still be seeing more than 7.6 psi with the stock filter. I was seeing a little over 10 psi with the 9 lb pulley and the stock filter.

I don't disagree with you, but I have data logs that say that I stay right around 11.5 psi, with peaks in the 12's without the filter on.

Reviewing the logs from last night, I was seeing 5, maybe 6 psi consistently with the filter on.

The only change between the logs was putting the filter on.

redondoaveb · 06-16-2019, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtle64b

I don't disagree with you, but I have data logs that say that I stay right around 11.5 psi, with peaks in the 12's without the filter on.

Reviewing the logs from last night, I was seeing 5, maybe 6 psi consistently with the filter on.

The only change between the logs was putting the filter on.

I know the filter is extremely restrictive. I lost 5 psi when I installed a prefilter over my Turbo Guard screen. I just wonder why you're making such low boost with the set up that everyone else consistently see's 10 psi with.

TopgunZ · 06-16-2019, 08:51 PM

If you have the 9 psi pulley and the Si trim then you should be seeing 14-15psi without a filter. By only getting 11.5-12 means there's something else wrong. It has to be a boost leak, belt slip, or pulley sizing issues.
I see you have a lightweight crank pulley. Tiny increments in that will make huge moves up top. Start there.

turtle64b · 06-16-2019, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

If you have the 9 psi pulley and the Si trim then you should be seeing 14-15psi without a filter. By only getting 11.5-12 means there's something else wrong. It has to be a boost leak, belt slip, or pulley sizing issues.
I see you have a lightweight crank pulley. Tiny increments in that will make huge moves up top. Start there.

The lightweight crank pulley stayed on the other Z and is OEM diameter. I also have the Vortech high traction pulleys 3.15-3.00 on the SC side, so no belt slip there. I've used belt conditioner on both belts, and have TBatt's no-slip pulley, so I don't think they are slipping. Pressure tests hold 20 psi with little drop off when air is secured.

TopgunZ · 06-17-2019, 08:13 AM

So you have a 3.15 Jackshaft pulley and a 3.00 supercharger pulley? With that combination and the 2.85 serpentine pulley you should be making an additional pound of boost so really you should be seeing 15-16psi without a filter. The filter has shown to drop the boost down by 4psi so you should be seeing close to 12psi with it on. Something is definitely not right. Can you confirm with a caliper the size of your pulleys?

G3RSTY7 · 06-18-2019, 10:25 AM

I’m at 8PSI with 9lb pulley and Si. Elevation plays a factor but no leak pretty sure we tested when I was at 7lbs with stock 8lb pulley. Sounds like turtle’s filter is giving a huge drop.
How long have people ran with no filter just screen? The idea terrifies me with rubber belt dust getting in boosted piping seems like a matter of time before it finds it’s way through the valves into cylinder but clearly huge gains to be had.
I remember somebody explaining something I believe to Patrick about if you change to small pulleys it can over power the filter somehow decreasing boost? Don’t remember but elaborate if that phenomenon rings a bill.
Anybody tried doing their own tunes? I would play around with pulleys and filters more if I could be tweaking my own tunes otherwise it’s too much of a hassle

redondoaveb · 06-18-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G3RSTY7

I’m at 8PSI with 9lb pulley and Si. Elevation plays a factor but no leak pretty sure we tested when I was at 7lbs with stock 8lb pulley. Sounds like turtle’s filter is giving a huge drop.
How long have people ran with no filter just screen? The idea terrifies me with rubber belt dust getting in boosted piping seems like a matter of time before it finds it’s way through the valves into cylinder but clearly huge gains to be had.
I remember somebody explaining something I believe to Patrick about if you change to small pulleys it can over power the filter somehow decreasing boost? Don’t remember but elaborate if that phenomenon rings a bill.
Anybody tried doing their own tunes? I would play around with pulleys and filters more if I could be tweaking my own tunes otherwise it’s too much of a hassle

If you're getting belt dust then you've got belt slippage and it must be coming from the serpentime side if you're concerned about it getting sucked into the sc. I'm more concerned about contaminates getting sucked through the intake system and gunking up the mafs and throttle bodies. For the same reason I have my oil changed more often.

If you're concerned about running just the screen you could get it tuned with the screen and then install a pre-filter for daily use. The pre-filter I tried (Filterwears) cut my boost by 5 psi but it can be removed in about 10 seconds if you want to increase your boost level for race situations.

I don't remember anyone mentioning anything about too small of pulleys over powering the filter but I'm old and my memory isn't that good (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it)

You have to be certified by Ecutek if I'm correct in order to be able to use their tuning software and most tuners lock their tune so you wouldn't have access to it without their permission.

turtle64b · 06-19-2019, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

So you have a 3.15 Jackshaft pulley and a 3.00 supercharger pulley? With that combination and the 2.85 serpentine pulley you should be making an additional pound of boost so really you should be seeing 15-16psi without a filter. The filter has shown to drop the boost down by 4psi so you should be seeing close to 12psi with it on. Something is definitely not right. Can you confirm with a caliper the size of your pulleys?

I can't confirm them at the moment other than placing the order for the pulleys directly with Vortech. I confirmed the 9lb serp side since I bought it secondhand.

I'll be taking a hiatus for awhile for a short deployment, so I'm not ignoring anyone, just under the ocean. I'm hoping some R&D gets done for a better intake setup while I'm gone. I will happily contribute whatever and however I can!

This thread has been absolutely fantastic in leading the way for the A2A setup and figuring out everything together!

Thank you all! See ya on the flip side.

mikey1600 · 06-21-2019, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Z"en

I prefer the one of Gates
https://www.amazon.com/Gates-36225-I.../dp/B002R74YU6

The effectiveness is the same to keep the tension as long as you make sure you get a 3" OD idler.

I see no reason to overrev your engine for SC'd Z especially if your using a self-lubricated head unit. The max RPM of your SC has already set a upper bond. Below that you can simply change the pully setup to get the power you need. Be sure to not go overboard to exceed its compressor efficiency otherwise the heat soak issue will make you beat a dead horse.

What oil pump are you using?

I'm actually running engine oil through it, so the stock 370z oil pump. The company here in Aus who upgraded it did that so it doesn't have the self lubricated part anymore, that thing is crap haha, so I've tapped into my sump for the return etc..

Thought it would get a higher peak figure with the higher rev range and shift into a higher range for the following gears, probably overthinking it lol

"Z"en · 06-21-2019, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey1600

I'm actually running engine oil through it, so the stock 370z oil pump. The company here in Aus who upgraded it did that so it doesn't have the self lubricated part anymore, that thing is crap haha, so I've tapped into my sump for the return etc..

Thought it would get a higher peak figure with the higher rev range and shift into a higher range for the following gears, probably overthinking it lol

So you got your V-3 converted into engine-oil-fed version from SL? Awesome! What oil feed/return kits are you using? Any links? Have you replaced the stock bearings with the H/D ones or...?

mikey1600 · 06-24-2019, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Z"en

So you got your V-3 converted into engine-oil-fed version from SL? Awesome! What oil feed/return kits are you using? Any links? Have you replaced the stock bearings with the H/D ones or...?

Yeah, I'll have to try dig up the invoice to show what's different.

Everything's been upgraded to better stuff like bearings etc. I'll be doing some pulley changes once the E85 tune is sorted on current gear, so basically it's had impeller upgrade/bearings etc.. it had the 9psi stillen pulley on it already so guessing 500ish wheel HP then see where the fuel pump/injectors are at before upgrading the pulleys. (I got the Aeromotive 340 and Idx1050's, so guessing pump upgrade needed here).

nic370 · 06-27-2019, 05:32 PM

Did anyone here ever get there stock crash bar back on in any way ?

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DUSHER · 06-27-2019, 08:15 PM

Not sure if I missed something but is there anything that needs to be upgraded to the car to get this working the stock stillen SC kit?

06-16-2019, 08:51 PM	#2675 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	If you have the 9 psi pulley and the Si trim then you should be seeing 14-15psi without a filter. By only getting 11.5-12 means there's something else wrong. It has to be a boost leak, belt slip, or pulley sizing issues. I see you have a lightweight crank pulley. Tiny increments in that will make huge moves up top. Start there. BOLIO 671 and "Z"en like this. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

06-17-2019, 08:13 AM	#2677 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	So you have a 3.15 Jackshaft pulley and a 3.00 supercharger pulley? With that combination and the 2.85 serpentine pulley you should be making an additional pound of boost so really you should be seeing 15-16psi without a filter. The filter has shown to drop the boost down by 4psi so you should be seeing close to 12psi with it on. Something is definitely not right. Can you confirm with a caliper the size of your pulleys? wideglideleon, redondoaveb and "Z"en like this. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

06-18-2019, 10:25 AM	#2678 (permalink)
G3RSTY7 Base Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 103 Drives: Infiniti G37s 6MT Rep Power: 8	I’m at 8PSI with 9lb pulley and Si. Elevation plays a factor but no leak pretty sure we tested when I was at 7lbs with stock 8lb pulley. Sounds like turtle’s filter is giving a huge drop. How long have people ran with no filter just screen? The idea terrifies me with rubber belt dust getting in boosted piping seems like a matter of time before it finds it’s way through the valves into cylinder but clearly huge gains to be had. I remember somebody explaining something I believe to Patrick about if you change to small pulleys it can over power the filter somehow decreasing boost? Don’t remember but elaborate if that phenomenon rings a bill. Anybody tried doing their own tunes? I would play around with pulleys and filters more if I could be tweaking my own tunes otherwise it’s too much of a hassle redondoaveb and "Z"en like this. __________________ 09 G37S RWD 6MT, Topgunz Supercharger, CJM RFS, Walbro 450, 1050x, Nismo 1.5way LSD, Ecutek FF tuned by Seb IG: G3RSTY7 MyG37.com: RickyBobby Last edited by G3RSTY7; 06-18-2019 at 10:38 AM.

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06-27-2019, 05:32 PM	#2684 (permalink)
nic370 Base Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: uk Posts: 187 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 10	Did anyone here ever get there stock crash bar back on in any way ? Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

06-27-2019, 08:15 PM	#2685 (permalink)
DUSHER Base Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 130 Drives: stillen 370z Rep Power: 8	Not sure if I missed something but is there anything that needs to be upgraded to the car to get this working the stock stillen SC kit?