Topgunz - air to air upgrade

future370zzz · 08-31-2016, 12:12 PM

Ditto ^

Also want to hear the Tial with the A2A setup.

TopgunZ · 08-31-2016, 12:56 PM

There's my dyno sheets and a video of intake temps in this thread.

nic370 · 08-31-2016, 01:34 PM

Page 14 for those asking
No Temps on sheet just power graph
Looks a great power curve tho

I just want to compare Temps to my previous tune

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

future370zzz · 08-31-2016, 02:04 PM

I'm interested in comparing temps as well. Only thing is my temp probe is in the charge pipe just before the aftercooler in the intake manifold.

I remember reading about the temps at about 10-20 degree above ambient with the A2A kit.

My temp probe stabilized at 140F when it's all warmed up and heatsoaked on a 70F day. If the aftercooler can lower temps by 40-50F then the engine would be taking in 90F to 100F temps. Compared to A2A kit, if engine air is about 10F-20F above ambient of 70F, that would mean about 80F to 90F temps in the engine. That's a 10F to 20F difference between Stillen's A2W and A2A and that's assuming the aftercooler can lower temps by 40F to 50F.

I notice if I continue to mash on the gas and get into boost, the temps get really high really fast but stabilize after 5 minutes of cruising. Interested to see if this happens with the A2A kit. I hope not. I'm guessing this is why the engines pop on the Stillen kit pushing higher psi. On warmer days (80F to 90F), temps climb even faster.

Anyone have temp reading in the Stillen intake manifold after the aftercooler that we can compare to results from the A2A kit?

nic370 · 08-31-2016, 02:22 PM

My temp sensor was in my intake manifold and custom maps built and closed loop to suit those Temps! so it was pretty accurate

I'm ready to drop on this just want to compare those if possible

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future370zzz · 08-31-2016, 02:25 PM

There was a video posted by Seb showing AIT in the 180-210F range and it turned out the supercharger bearings were incorrectly installed causing increased heat. After the fix, the temps readings dropped to 140-160F which is consistent with what I'm seeing. See his response below for information on A2A setups and his experience with it. The positive comment I see from Seb's response is that the temps are stable over repeated pulls.

"The car wasn't producing power along with the added heat. So it was pulled to check it out and sure enough there was a problem. I see temps in the 140 to 160s on average. Those who go to air to air intercoolers I see about 120-130 temps that are pretty stable over repeated pulls. This is with the MAFs (intake temps) relocated to the charge piping just like you have on your PLX setup. The sensor on the car on YouTube has the sensor installed in the intake manifold (after the heat exchanger) where the temps will typically be hotter. It would be a good idea to add an additional sensor to the intake manifold and get a reading there so its more comparable to this car. Some of the air to air guys may only be reading from the MAFs and the MAFs may also still be located at the blower inlet."

future370zzz · 08-31-2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nic370

My temp sensor was in my intake manifold and custom maps built and closed loop to suit those Temps! so it was pretty accurate

I'm ready to drop on this just want to compare those if possible

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

In the intake manifold after the aftercooler core or before it? What were your temp?

TopgunZ · 08-31-2016, 02:32 PM

Its all about WOT and idling or cruising isnt a concern. The engine isnt going to let go when cruising, it is going to happen at WOT. The engine isnt going to wear rings at idle or cruising but high temps and cylinder walls wreak havoc on them under boost.

This kit was designed to address full boost situations and to eliminate the heat soak issue that was in the above post, because thats the issue with the water.

In my video i posted here about 4 months ago I am doing a WOT pull all the way to redline and to max boost. At peak boost I am only reading 20* over ambient.

The gain in horsepower is also what the kit is designed to do. This occurs because the timing can be advanced accurately and the car knows what is going on since the MAFs are placed after the intercooler and reading the exact temp that air is entering the engine. The gains are also made by the cooler charge air and the filter design.

nic370 · 08-31-2016, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by future370zzz

In the intake manifold after the aftercooler core or before it? What were your temp?

After I'll grab some pictures when I can
Here's what was done

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...46146868748619

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nic370 · 08-31-2016, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Its all about WOT and idling or cruising isnt a concern. The engine isnt going to let go when cruising, it is going to happen at WOT. The engine isnt going to wear rings at idle or cruising but high temps and cylinder walls wreak havoc on them under boost.

This kit was designed to address full boost situations and to eliminate the heat soak issue that was in the above post, because thats the issue with the water.

In my video i posted here about 4 months ago I am doing a WOT pull all the way to redline and to max boost. At peak boost I am only reading 20* over ambient.

The gain in horsepower is also what the kit is designed to do. This occurs because the timing can be advanced accurately and the car knows what is going on since the MAFs are placed after the intercooler and reading the exact temp that air is entering the engine. The gains are also made by the cooler charge air and the filter design.

All the safety features you talk of were done by my tuners here!
The one thing they could not do was cool the air
So had to add fuel cool on wot to keep things in check
All detailed in my Facebook post

The one thing I'm looking to take away from this kit is the simplicity of the design and the nice cool stable intake Temps

To allow my tunner to carry the power threw to wot

I'll be in touch next few days to arange getting a kit from you

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Some Temps on here
It was dialed back to this due to almost 60 degrees iat on the dyno

TBatt · 08-31-2016, 03:05 PM

If it will help, I can get the data I've been collecting with my Ecutek tune. It logs ambient temp as well as intake temps (post intercooler). I do see a quick rise in temps while on boost but they cool back down as soon as the boost goes away. It should give you an idea of how effective the a2a system is at least with my modest boost levels.

nic370 · 08-31-2016, 03:07 PM

I'd apriciate that
I can compare that to my logs I did .
Tia.

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TBatt · 08-31-2016, 03:33 PM

Keep in mind that my boost level sucks but this is what I recorded a while back.
RPM Boost PSI Temp °F Ambient temp was around 98°F that day
2500 0 111
3000 1.3 111
3500 1.89 111
4000 2.61 113
4500 3.34 114.8
5000 4.49 116.6
5500 5.22 120.2
6000 5.95 123.8
6500 6.67 129.2
7000 5.25 134.6

So the temp went up 23.6°F for this run, on a hot day, with crappy boost level that I'm trying to fix.

SlyZGuy · 08-31-2016, 04:56 PM

VIDEO OF TIAL BOV ON DYNO:

#1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wnj35n32k...55941.3gp?dl=0

Full Pull:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kutgojdhq7...55943.3gp?dl=0

And a couple pics to boot(springs havent settled yet, and its been up on lift:

future370zzz · 08-31-2016, 05:15 PM

^The TIAL sounds good. Don't know if it's just the garage effect but the BOV almost drowns out the exhaust note.haha

Any dyno numbers and temp information yet?

The deep blue color looks good and unique and the black wheels go well with the overall theme. Color matched door handles was a good idea.

08-31-2016, 12:12 PM	#1021 (permalink)
future370zzz Track Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bay Area Posts: 555 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Rep Power: 14	Ditto ^ Also want to hear the Tial with the A2A setup. __________________

08-31-2016, 12:56 PM	#1022 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	There's my dyno sheets and a video of intake temps in this thread. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

08-31-2016, 01:34 PM	#1023 (permalink)
nic370 Base Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: uk Posts: 187 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 10	Page 14 for those asking No Temps on sheet just power graph Looks a great power curve tho I just want to compare Temps to my previous tune Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Last edited by nic370; 08-31-2016 at 01:53 PM.

08-31-2016, 02:04 PM	#1024 (permalink)
future370zzz Track Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bay Area Posts: 555 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Rep Power: 14	I'm interested in comparing temps as well. Only thing is my temp probe is in the charge pipe just before the aftercooler in the intake manifold. I remember reading about the temps at about 10-20 degree above ambient with the A2A kit. My temp probe stabilized at 140F when it's all warmed up and heatsoaked on a 70F day. If the aftercooler can lower temps by 40-50F then the engine would be taking in 90F to 100F temps. Compared to A2A kit, if engine air is about 10F-20F above ambient of 70F, that would mean about 80F to 90F temps in the engine. That's a 10F to 20F difference between Stillen's A2W and A2A and that's assuming the aftercooler can lower temps by 40F to 50F. I notice if I continue to mash on the gas and get into boost, the temps get really high really fast but stabilize after 5 minutes of cruising. Interested to see if this happens with the A2A kit. I hope not. I'm guessing this is why the engines pop on the Stillen kit pushing higher psi. On warmer days (80F to 90F), temps climb even faster. Anyone have temp reading in the Stillen intake manifold after the aftercooler that we can compare to results from the A2A kit? __________________ Last edited by future370zzz; 08-31-2016 at 02:10 PM.

08-31-2016, 02:25 PM	#1026 (permalink)
future370zzz Track Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bay Area Posts: 555 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Rep Power: 14	There was a video posted by Seb showing AIT in the 180-210F range and it turned out the supercharger bearings were incorrectly installed causing increased heat. After the fix, the temps readings dropped to 140-160F which is consistent with what I'm seeing. See his response below for information on A2A setups and his experience with it. The positive comment I see from Seb's response is that the temps are stable over repeated pulls. "The car wasn't producing power along with the added heat. So it was pulled to check it out and sure enough there was a problem. I see temps in the 140 to 160s on average. Those who go to air to air intercoolers I see about 120-130 temps that are pretty stable over repeated pulls. This is with the MAFs (intake temps) relocated to the charge piping just like you have on your PLX setup. The sensor on the car on YouTube has the sensor installed in the intake manifold (after the heat exchanger) where the temps will typically be hotter. It would be a good idea to add an additional sensor to the intake manifold and get a reading there so its more comparable to this car. Some of the air to air guys may only be reading from the MAFs and the MAFs may also still be located at the blower inlet." __________________ Last edited by future370zzz; 08-31-2016 at 02:27 PM.

08-31-2016, 02:22 PM	#1025 (permalink)
nic370 Base Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: uk Posts: 187 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 10	My temp sensor was in my intake manifold and custom maps built and closed loop to suit those Temps! so it was pretty accurate I'm ready to drop on this just want to compare those if possible Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

08-31-2016, 02:32 PM	#1028 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6834	Its all about WOT and idling or cruising isnt a concern. The engine isnt going to let go when cruising, it is going to happen at WOT. The engine isnt going to wear rings at idle or cruising but high temps and cylinder walls wreak havoc on them under boost. This kit was designed to address full boost situations and to eliminate the heat soak issue that was in the above post, because thats the issue with the water. In my video i posted here about 4 months ago I am doing a WOT pull all the way to redline and to max boost. At peak boost I am only reading 20* over ambient. The gain in horsepower is also what the kit is designed to do. This occurs because the timing can be advanced accurately and the car knows what is going on since the MAFs are placed after the intercooler and reading the exact temp that air is entering the engine. The gains are also made by the cooler charge air and the filter design. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM Last edited by TopgunZ; 08-31-2016 at 02:34 PM.

08-31-2016, 03:05 PM	#1031 (permalink)
TBatt Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 832 Drives: 2019 GT-R Rep Power: 20168	If it will help, I can get the data I've been collecting with my Ecutek tune. It logs ambient temp as well as intake temps (post intercooler). I do see a quick rise in temps while on boost but they cool back down as soon as the boost goes away. It should give you an idea of how effective the a2a system is at least with my modest boost levels. __________________ RJM pedal, Hotchkis Sway Bars, FI TDX, FOG Light, Z1 Slotted Drilled rotors, Stillen SC, Quaife ATB, Z1 Oil cooler, AEM Gauge Set, Galeforce gauge mount, Avant Garde M590 Hypersilver w/RE-11, TopgunZ A2A kit., ECUtek tuned by Seb: ROLL TIDE!

08-31-2016, 03:07 PM	#1032 (permalink)
nic370 Base Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: uk Posts: 187 Drives: 370 Rep Power: 10	I'd apriciate that I can compare that to my logs I did . Tia. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

08-31-2016, 03:33 PM	#1033 (permalink)
TBatt Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 832 Drives: 2019 GT-R Rep Power: 20168	Keep in mind that my boost level sucks but this is what I recorded a while back. RPM Boost PSI Temp °F Ambient temp was around 98°F that day 2500 0 111 3000 1.3 111 3500 1.89 111 4000 2.61 113 4500 3.34 114.8 5000 4.49 116.6 5500 5.22 120.2 6000 5.95 123.8 6500 6.67 129.2 7000 5.25 134.6 So the temp went up 23.6°F for this run, on a hot day, with crappy boost level that I'm trying to fix. __________________ RJM pedal, Hotchkis Sway Bars, FI TDX, FOG Light, Z1 Slotted Drilled rotors, Stillen SC, Quaife ATB, Z1 Oil cooler, AEM Gauge Set, Galeforce gauge mount, Avant Garde M590 Hypersilver w/RE-11, TopgunZ A2A kit., ECUtek tuned by Seb: ROLL TIDE!

08-31-2016, 04:56 PM	#1034 (permalink)
SlyZGuy Base Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Maryland Posts: 220 Drives: 2014 370z S/C M6 Rep Power: 9	VIDEO OF TIAL BOV ON DYNO: #1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wnj35n32k...55941.3gp?dl=0 Full Pull: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kutgojdhq7...55943.3gp?dl=0 And a couple pics to boot(springs havent settled yet, and its been up on lift: swiss370Z, wideglideleon and TwostepN40 like this. __________________ Stillen S/C \| '15 Nismo Conversion \| Aodhan \| Eibach \| Tokico \| SPC \| Z1 \| Evo-R \| Aerojacket \| HKS \| Berk \| CFE \| APR \| Amuse \| Z1 \| A2A IC \| AAM \| Buddy Club \| Last edited by SlyZGuy; 08-31-2016 at 05:02 PM.

08-31-2016, 05:15 PM	#1035 (permalink)
future370zzz Track Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bay Area Posts: 555 Drives: 10 Nissan 370z Rep Power: 14	^The TIAL sounds good. Don't know if it's just the garage effect but the BOV almost drowns out the exhaust note.haha Any dyno numbers and temp information yet? The deep blue color looks good and unique and the black wheels go well with the overall theme. Color matched door handles was a good idea. wideglideleon likes this. __________________ Last edited by future370zzz; 08-31-2016 at 05:18 PM.

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