Piston rings fried - stillen supercharger
 

Well my worst nightmare came true and after 5,000 miles on my stillen supercharger kit with the upgraded impeller the Piston rings are fried! Looking for advice from guys who have been in this situation before ? What did you do after you blew your motor ? I think the fastest but most expensive way is to buy a built long block ? Any advice or suggestions on vendors would be helpful. Thanks for the help

ipp

What are your long term power goals?


If its only the rings, and your block is salvageable, building off that may be your best bet.


Shoot me a call at 410-593-7080 or shoot me a PM and I would be more than happy to go over some engine options with you.


-Daelen

Thanks I herd good things about IPP and actually bought my berks HFC from kyle. Should I do a long block or short block ? My concern is if I did a short block and after tearing motor apart to find my head messed up to and then gotta pay more labor and build that ?

Look on the parts for sale part some guy is selling his stock long block for 2,900 or OBO or give daelen a call.

First off. Sorry to hear it man.

If you want to go for more power some day:
I would pull the heads. Inspect them. Then if all is good send the short block to IPP and have him sell you a new built bottom end then re-attach the heads. If the heads are toast then go long block. I doubt they are though.

If you will always be happy with under 550whp:
Buy the best deal on a used block and swap it in.

I have several questions to ask you though if you don't mind:

So how much boost were you making? How was it tuned and was it tuned after the upgraded impeller? What pulley setup did you have on? What gas were you using? What was your afr's? and finally. What did you have for a fuel system?

No matter what you will want to take the heads apart to clean everything, and at that point a valve job is not a bad idea. Another option is cams, as it will never be cheaper than now to install them.

Its really easy to snowball a price fast on an engine build, but the big thing is having a long term goal, and a plan, as that will help guide the build and spend the money in the best places.

So how much boost were you making? -10 psi
How was it tuned and was it tuned after the upgraded impeller? It was tuned with upgraded impeller - I'm 100% the tune is the reason it blew. It was running to lean
What pulley setup did you have on? Stock stillen pulley
What gas were you using? 93 that's all I ever use
What did you have for a fuel system? GTR injectors and walboro fuel pump

Build the block. Drop in the the jwt cams.


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That sucks man. What caused it to run so lean? What AFR's were you getting before it popped? I just dont see how any knowledgeable tuner could let it leave their shop while it runs lean.

Sucks going threw this but the same thing happened to me it was cylinder number 2 piston ring that went with the Stillen kit. This is common with this kit when trying to make power I've heard of a few more motors that went because of the same thing. I am sure your heads are fine mine were I just rebuild my bottom end.

With the stillen original pull through system the mafs cant read intake temps. So the motor thinks it is getting ambient temp air. It will most likely advance timing. The TINY stillen aftercooler is trying to cool an already insane amount of hot air. Add more power means adding even more hot air. Car still advances timing. = Bad day.

This kit was engineered to never go over 9psi.

Now if you were to somehow let the motor know the intake temps and keep them cool........

Another Stillen Kit causes catastrophic engine failure....what's new but this piece of a junk kit keeps getting prompted when it is well know that she over heats the Engine.

#StillenKit Sucks #Facts.

If you plan to keep the Stillen Kit then I think your best bet is to put a stock engine back in and leave the kit completely as Stillen designed it. You don't need a built block to run the kit at the power level Stillen designed it for.

If you are going to build it, call IPP. They have been building Nissan engines for decades.

I agree and building a block for a Stillen SCer kit seems overkill. Unless you fix the MAF location so the engine actually knows what temperatures it's getting you will have the same problem.

I totally disagree with your statement here. The kit does not suck. In fact it does everything it was designed to do. It is an easy install and makes power. It can easily break 400whp "the way it was designed" and be safe. There is a reason why they make you sign a waiver if you want even a 1psi more pulley on the kit. Because it was designed for one safe psi level. Anything after that and your asking for trouble. Especially if you start upgrading the power maker itself, as in this case. However, the guy did even admit it was the tune, in which will cause the same problems in every kit on the market. If his AFR's were running super lean, then even at the 8psi level it would have let go.

If someone asked what the easiest way to make 400whp on our cars is. I would tell them to get the stillen kit. If someone asks what the easiest way to make 500whp is, I would tell them to get the BP kit and stay away from stillen.

400whp is no joke. Its just insane how much power is being made these days. But 400whp is like 450 on the engine. How many cars come with 450? Its still a lot of power.

Years after the 350Z came out it was the "quest for 400" and it was considered to be insanely fast. If you had 450whp in your 350 you were the top dog.

Moral of the story:
Safe numbers on stillen kit are around 400whp. If that's what your goals are you will be fine. If, and when, you get power hungry, DONT try to push the stillen to the limits. Buy a turbo kit instead.

:ninja3: Unless you want to SERIOUSLY modify the stillen kit. :rock:

Sorry to hear your motor blew man. Good luck on the rebuild and I would get it tunes by someone who really knows their ****. If you're heads are good, which they probably are, I would just buy a short block!

Totally agree on not being greedy with the Stillen kit. I am leaving everything alone as Stillen stock and making a little under 8 PSI boost and 380whp. It's going great and reliably.

Thank you all for the input. What's crazy is i should have known something was up when my local tuner told me he had to stop tuning at only 379 whp at 10psi!! This was on the heart breaker dyno. He said that my GTR injectors were at 99% and MAF were almost at max voltage! I thought that was insane at less than 400 whp. Also like someone else's said it was cylinder #2 that gave. I bought the kit used with the upgraded impeller man I wish I could take that out! Now the decision what to do next.

The person who works on my car works for nissan so this plays into my decision on which route to go. I don't plan on selling stillen kit due to the hassle and good deal I got on it so going TT not a option. But Damn I wish some vendor would make a kit I can buy to move the MAF sensors ugh !

Scenario #1 - short block - since he would have to tear motor apart and would take some time he would have to do this at dealership and charge me a reduced labor price and also risk finding a ****** up head and than have to build that. I was also told by IPP that I won't get the benefit of the porting if you did keep you stock heads.

Scenario #2 - used motor swap- this is cheapest option - if I did a complete engine swap my guy who works at the dealership can do this at his home shop on a weekend and not charge me any labor to do it. He's a great friend I know lol - but my concern about buying a used motor is I feel like it would just be a bandaid fix and kinda just wasting $2000 with no performance benefits and the risk of this happening again and not to mention no way to really know how many miles are on the used motor and how it was treated.

Scenario #3- built stage 1 long block from IPP- most expensive option but most positive gains and if I did this I would keep this z until the wheels fall off no new car for me for a long long time lol - my guy would also be able to to the swap at his house and not charge me any labor and said he could have it done on a weekend. Only downside is I will have this awesome built long block but still have stillen kit and never get use the full potential of built motor kinda like overkill. But I should have piece of mind with this built motor and not be in this situation again. I don't think I would see any performance gains from built long block right just a safer more reliable motor right ?

Scenario #4- sell car as Is - cut ties and loses - what do think I could sell for ? I still owe 19k on loan
Car details -
2013 370z 50k miles base brilliant silver - AT -stillen supercharger kit -upgraded impeller, csf radiator,GTR injectors, walboro fuel pump, berks HFC, AAM S-line midpipe AAM S-line axleback - Z1 34 row oil cooler -stillen trans cooler, avantgarde m310 wheels

Which one would you guys choose ?

Option 3 and fine a new competent tuner. Upgrade your MAFS and add a return fuel system too

+ Maybe one day you can save up enough extra cash to swap to a turbo kit, in the meantime you'll have a fast reliable and fun car while you wait

I didn't want to make assumptions but I almost said in my last post that I bet those GTR injectors were seeing high duty cycles. If they were at 99% then that is 100% guaranteed what went wrong. So we cant blame the kit on this one at ALL. You should never go over 80% dc on injectors. Even if you had the Fast Intentions kit and paid 20K for it and every supporting mod and had them professionally install it, it would have blown. You ran out of fuel bro.

Now, if Sasha (BP) is really going to start mass producing an a2a setup for the stillen kit you can go that route. However, the most the v3 sc will put down on our cars is around 550whp. So even going that route you will not put a built longblock to use. The limiting factor is the impellar speed will top out and the bearings will give at anything over 14psi.

:iagree: , missed what you said on the injectors

You don't NEED a return setup unless you are going for close to 500whp. I would throw in some ID1000's though.

My biggest concern is the hot intake temps still. At 10psi that shitty aftercooler just can not cool the charge. On a 90+ degree day that intake is going to be insanely hot. I have no data on just how hot that charge is once it has passed through that tiny aftercooler and is in the lower plenum.

But I can tell you that I melted plastic that I had in front of my BPV!!! :eek:

I also can tell you that the highest intake temps I have read on my a2a setup is 95*. Ahhhhhh.....feel the breeze.

FYI. I am making 490whp on 10psi.

I'm not blaming the stillen kit at all- I'm not pointing fingers at anyone besides my tuner.. I don't see how my GTR injectors and MAF sensors were maxing out at the whp I was seeing. We all take risk when boosting so i understand that.

I have followed many of your post and trust your knowledge greatly. If you were in my shoes what would you reccomend me do next to make sure this does not happen again and get the most out of my built block and SC ? Thank you bro

Most out of a built block and sticking with the SC? You have to go air to air. Just don't ask Jwillis about it. :icon14:

The way I see it is this:

1. Built block + stillen oem = 400whp (cheapest)

2. Built block + stillen a2a = 525whp? (extra 2k? and not sure sasha will do this)

3. Built block + BP kit (most affordable) = 700whp (extra 8K)

So what are your power goals?

Also, what are your current mods? Supporting over 500whp is a lot different than supporting 400.

buy used block. then rebuild old block. look into BP Air-to-air kit for the stillen supercharger.

LMAO I've been following his saga. The man has patience!

I agree with your statements in that the STOCK Stillen SC kit is not only safe but pretty powerful too. That is the direction I am going in June.

The OP had some bad stuff happen because of a used kit that was obviously not compatible with all of the upgrades. The injectors were not suited for the increased fuel flow requirement.

What some fail to realize is that turbocharging is "free" horsepower while a supercharger gets its power from the engine. So, when looking at WHP from a turbo and crunching the numbers on what the crankshaft horsepower is will be pretty accurate. Not true with a SC. The engine is not only producing the WHP that the dyno is reporting but the additional crankshaft power needed to power the SC. I have not run the numbers but I think that is around 60 crankshaft HP to drive the SC @ 8 PSI. If you dyno-ed a turbo setup and got 400WHP the engine is producing around 500 crankshaft HP. A SC setup that produces 400WHP will require the engine to produce +560 crankshaft HP. Make sense? That additional 60 HP will need extra fuel and air.

My 2 cents.

:thumbsdown:

What I have learnt after reading all these SC threads is that you should really leave the kit as Stillen designed it or be prepared and OK with all these problems you SC modifiers have had and are some are still having. Not worth the hassle IMO.

Injector duty at 99% is way too high, you can't even account for variances in temperature at that point. No wonder the engine ran too lean.

The only problem I have had is I cant drive my car in the snow.

The A2A will be out this spring.

The stillen kit is good out of the box, going beyond stock is risky!

In my layman's opinion:

#1 ditch the stillen kit, sell it and recoup some cash.
#2 Buy another stock motor, sell your fried blank canvas to someone going for big power to recoup some cash.
#3 Buy one of the following turbo kits:
BP Kit (Self install or far less expensive shop job)
Gamma V3 (More mechanically inclined self install or shop job)
FI or AAM (Even more mechanically inclined self install or shop job, Bigger hit to wallet for kit)
#4 Take the car (or even farm out the entire build) to a well known competent tuner that does Ecutek. JTRAN in houston is 4.5 hours away from you. Z1 in GA is only 6.5 hours away. If you can't get a base tune and drive it (or want to have them do the whole build), spend the $500-$1000 to have it transported there and then rent a car (or fly there) when its complete and drive it home knowing your tune is rock solid.

FYI I had JTRAN tune my car. Start to finish he did it in 4 hours and it feels like it came from the factory with 500+whp. He knows what he's doing.

I think these steps will get you to the most headache/hassle free 500-550whp. If you want more you can go E85 and/or build, but your wallet will need serious commitment and the stillen kit really stops making sense. Either way... ditch the stillen kit.

edit: Since your new motor is not going to be physically inside the car anyway, you can save a little on the install of an AAM or FI kit since they suggest pulling the motor for installation. BP and Gamma can be done without pulling the motor (with the BP kit being far easier to install).

Thank you all for the help. I decided I will be buying a used motor and bigger injectors and going to a better tuner switching to ecuteck.

JTRAN In Houston ?? Anybody got a contact for him ?

Also do you think 600cc injectors are big enough ? Or do I need bigger ?

I'll also will look into the air to air once a proven kit is out

Once again thank you all for the help during this difficult time

Go bigger, I think the Stillen ones are 600. I have 1000cc injectors in mine.


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750-1000cc. 600cc is like aftermarket GTR injectors.


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We have been talking about how to get his psi down from 10psi with his impeller. I believe the stock supercharger pulley is 3" but I don't have it here to check. If he used a 3 1/4" it should drop his psi to 7-8 I'm thinking, does that sound correct to you guys?


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http://www.jtranstudio.com/contact-us.php

Call them and ask for Johnny or Amber.

I've also got a set of 750cc Bosch injectors if your interested PM me.

Stock is 3.20" if i recall, put a 3.50" on there, should be good.

600cc might be small depending on your goals. If you're keeping the stillen kit as it was designed then you'll be fine. I'm running 600cc on my TT and they are small for my setup, but I'm limited to about 540whp because of them.

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Thanks I will call Monday. Pm sent about injectors as well