Recent interactions with GTM/Gamma

birdman71 · 10-01-2015, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

My Recommendations to the new owners:
-Whether you like my opinion or advice here is a list of some simple steps to fix the problems you are facing and will face in this uphill battle to gain market share:

Step 1: Work with Sam to consolidate the list of Debts owed to customers. Offer a product for forgiveness of debt. Current Retail value of product to cover debt owed (and in the case like the OP cover the kit as your costs are not that high for the kits being made). This will gain you a forward step in the community and probably get your ban lifted.

Step 2: Keep your product offerings limited while you are in this start up phase. One of the problems GTM had was a wide and deep product line but only being able to deliver on a narrow and shallow product depth.

Step 3: bring your work in house! Bring your casting Stateside! If Other companies can do it at a lower price point so can you! This means you will have to invest into your market and not be a fly by night operation... Lower profits but more kits sold. The way this market works is by quantity and quality of kits.

Step 4: Invest into targeted technologies that are relatively low cost but reduce your overall production costs. The orbital welder is a perfect example! Instead of outsourcing your welding and paying a premium spend the $20-$50k and be able to have perfect pipes that a customer is willing to pay a premium for! I know I for one would have paid an additional $500 for orbital welds on all my piping! Even at that pricing you break even within your first 100 kits sold!

Step 5: Offer an upgrade path on the current designs! V3 Manifold upgrades for all those with the current V2 manifolds. for those with warranty issues offer a low cost solution to upgrade. Make sure to cover your costs but at the same time not break the customers bank!

Step 6: Hire a marketing manager that can present your company! A face of the business that people can trust! Keep clear and open communication and always always tell the truth! If something is going to be late or their is a complication the customer wants to know about it! You would be surprised how flexible most customers are given clear and proper communication.

Step 7: Choose 1 of the 2 -
Choice 1 - Be a performance shop and take in builds
or
Choice 2 - Be a manufacturer and utilize your own cars for test beds... nobody wants to give up their car for years to be a test dummy!

Honestly having those couple ideas that bullitt put out there, in his novel, it would work for GAMMA. Being able to provide incentives to the customer to keep them for GTM's mistakes but also in the long run making their sale out of it and keeping a customer happy and coming back to their company. They look like the good guys if they do these steps in a customer service friendly and efficient manner.
I'm not saying that what previously happened before to many customers wasn't wrong, because it was, but at least there is an option of fixing right now through GAMMA (although not customer friendly) even though the price has been raised. Maybe their product in general is more expensive than GTM's was due to the quality of the parts. Maybe how they are working the numbers already could be giving you a great deal in regards to their not even having to deal with many of you because they are not legally liable. If anyone isn't happy with GAMMA's new procedure's (if they do not take some of bullitt's recommendations into though), I do know there is a Small Claims Lawsuit being started against Sam. Go ahead and sign up and try to get your money back from Sam. Chances are at that point he would declare bankruptcy depending on what costs for payout and what he has available.

Can't complain about what reality is right now.

GZ3 · 10-01-2015, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

So let me clarify your question... So you want a company that bought the rights to GTM products/designs and in the process hired the original owner as an employee to pay for the mistakes of the previous company. And if they don't honor the mistakes of the previous company then they are the bad guys? Is that what your asking/stating? Because from a fact based argument it holds no water so to speak... Now if you really wanted to get your money back you would have to fight to get your money back through the GTM bankruptcy in which you and many others including myself would be low on the totem pole... It's a losing battle and the fact the new company is even recognizing the issues and has made efforts that have already begun to show retribution for some. I feel that they may be on the right track but at the same time may need guidance from the community on what we would expect as proper retribution for the grievances and debts owed to us.

I believe someone should make good on behalf of the customer, this should not fall on the buyer in any way, shape, form or fashion. Im not blaming the new owners either, they inherited a **** from the looks of it. But the customer is lastly, of ALL, who should have to be out. If i read correctly, he cant even get refund? Thats crazzzzzy

birdman71 · 10-01-2015, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

I believe someone should make good on behalf of the customer, this should not fall on the buyer in any way, shape, form or fashion. Im not blaming the new owners either, they inherited a **** from the looks of it. But the customer is lastly, of ALL, who should have to be out. If i read correctly, he cant even get refund? Thats crazzzzzy

Well if he wants a refund it would be through Sam and the small claims lawsuit. the new company and the way they bought it it sounds like from bullitt is that they have no financial liability to anything SAM did with GTM.

GZ3 · 10-01-2015, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdman71

Well if he wants a refund it would be through Sam and the small claims lawsuit. the new company and the way they bought it it sounds like from bullitt is that they have no financial liability to anything SAM did with GTM.

ahhh this is frustrating for me and im not even involved. Cant imagine

SAM needs to be put on blast bigtime

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 07:15 PM

Birdman you are 100% right.

hjo1078 · 10-01-2015, 07:18 PM

But why the **** would sam post some **** like this on their fb page then.

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Infidel · 10-01-2015, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdman71

Well if he wants a refund it would be through Sam and the small claims lawsuit. the new company and the way they bought it it sounds like from bullitt is that they have no financial liability to anything SAM did with GTM.

This will be their downfall before they even get off the ground. Hope those investors have eggs in more than one basket.

SolarO350Z · 10-01-2015, 07:26 PM

He only made good with vendors. A lot of them were also waiting over a year. Sure make good with the vendors why? Cause they have loyal customers to help Gamma grow. Priority. Screw everyone else and the GB people. I would like to know if GB people got their kits or refunds?

birdman71 · 10-01-2015, 07:29 PM

Me neither, I'm not involved but I can understand where every side is coming from and the logic and reasoning behind it.

Sam does need to be put on blast, but not completely harassed and bashed and honestly the best way to do so would be with a Small Claims Lawsuit, if GAMMA does not start offering some sort of incentive to pay more money into their products, cause not only does it show him what he did was wrong and cannot just get away with it by another company trying to fix his mistakes. If Gamma say offers the piping and SC, to the one poster here with the SC issue, for $2200 but offers upgraded manifolds or some sort of upgrade to their current kit, that seems logical. But a price raise and then no incentive plus being out money currently on a kit that is no where or partially found is a rip off
I don't how healthy Sam is currently or know how much Sam understands that he is still 100% liable for everything that happened with GTM, but I do hope that he is doing better.

Honestly customers who purchased into the group buy or bought GTM parts and lost their money have three options:
1. Small claims suit to get your money back (could take multiple years or end in bankruptcy to where he doesn't pay any of it lol)
OR
2. See about working a deal with the new company for an incentive of some sort, literally ask them "What can you offer me to earn me as a loyal customer besides taking over GTM's mistake?" (and offering to fix it for more money cough cough). See what they can do for you. Free shipping even at this point for some people who don't have a kit even would be nice.

3. Custom build the rest of your kit

For the customers out there that are complaining about paying more money, just remember that a true business model is "Spend money to Make Money" (look @ investors Careers lol) Not only is GAMMA having to deal with normal business operations (costs money), but also with the purchase of GTM (costs money), the purchasing of an increased amount of parts (costs money) for these GTM customers that were not correctly giving product in the first place, and then shipping, worker's cost etc. etc. if you bring in every little thing they actually have to pay for for everything they are trying to help with, I'm sure they are in over their head and are trying to recoup money. Sadly just not doing it in the right way to where it fixes what GTM has made a mess. Paraphrasing what bullitt said if they keep down this road they will not have a big enough market group with this investment they made with buying GTM and eventually have problems themselves.

Can only go on so long just spending money without making anything.
Yes it is a lot of money we are talking on both sides of the spectrum, customer and manufacture.

GZ3 · 10-01-2015, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjo1078

But why the **** would sam post some **** like this on their fb page then.

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birdman71 · 10-01-2015, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjo1078

But why the **** would sam post some **** like this on their fb page then.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sam is still trying to advertise. He is the developer of the products still from what I understand. Notice how GTM and GAMMA motors are listed.

Honestly for people who owe a couple grand this should be an incentive that GAMMA is giving should be the V3 turbo kits

say you owe like 3k on the kit but they offer you the incentive V3 kit for 4k.

THAT is how they should be running this (as an example with numbers). Again Paraphrasing Bullitt's novel, If they did an incentive program correctly and marketed correctly to these unhappy GTM customers, they would pay off the GTM debt and break even in a 100 kits or so. The math makes sense.

tiller · 10-01-2015, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

That was one of the issues I addressed in my post. Please take the time to reread my post. You will fall into the customer debts and clear open communication.

I did read your earlier post,I was just asking if you urself treat a customer as Sam has,my worry is are the new people that are so called employing him being infected by his work practices.Iam apart of this thread to help others not end up in my situation,and this not the only way I will do it

vividracing · 10-01-2015, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolarO350Z

He only made good with vendors. A lot of them were also waiting over a year. Sure make good with the vendors why? Cause they have loyal customers to help Gamma grow. Priority. Screw everyone else and the GB people. I would like to know if GB people got their kits or refunds?

Sam has been trying to make good with us. He sent us the missing parts to the SC kit I've sat on for over a year, he's giving us incentives to sell more TT kits that I am now not allowed to even post as sales thread on here.

If everyone here really took the time to read Bullit's explanation you would realize a couple things. Going after Sam in Bankruptcy court is your only option. Taking matters into your own hands and trying to physically harm someone after announcing it on a public forum..?.. c'mon you're silly and obviously talking from something you sit on. Taking matters into your own hands and try to publicly post his personal information all over the internet so he can be harassed..?.. again, silly, what gain will you get from that? Blaming the investors for bad business created by GTM..?.. Do you think they looked at GTM and ripped their shirts open and said "have no fear, we will save the day" and decided to invest. Or would you think that they look at the product and agree that it's a quality product that there is a demand for which makes it a good investment?

The part about Sam being listed as the owner makes plenty of sense if you take the time to comprehend what Bullit is trying to educate you on.

Oh and vendors act as the advocate for the customer, not the manufacturer. Any time my customers have a problem with a product I answer their calls, I reply to their e-mails and I facilitate the remedy to the situation. So for Sam to choose to make things right with a vendor first while he is tied up in litigation with a bunch of people is the only way Gammas products will leave their shop.

I am in the business of making money and I get that done by selling parts. When a vendor is hindering me from doing so by lying, cheating or stealing, they go away very quickly. When I am filled with false promises, ignored and every transaction becomes a painful mess, they go away quickly. I have vendors I simply wont subject my customers to, if you ask me for it I will tell exactly why I wont sell it to you. We work under the premise that everything is our fault when something goes wrong, that the middle man becomes the manufacturer when something goes wrong and on occasion I have been personally attacked or blamed. I love what I do though and I need all of you to help me put food on my plate.

Gamma has a huge hill to climb and those standing in the way with their problems with GTM have a right to demand answers and get things resolved but it has to be done through the proper channels. It can't be fueled by hate and threats and emotions.

That's just my two cents. I mean no offense because I have lived a life where I have been in situations like this but what really gets under my skin is the people who come on here to just join in on the negative. Stop putting fuel on the fire. Nothing gets accomplished under a hot head, cooler minds will prevail. Work together, get in on the lawsuit and build your case to get your justice.

Todd

tiller · 10-01-2015, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vividracing

Sam has been trying to make good with us. He sent us the missing parts to the SC kit I've sat on for over a year, he's giving us incentives to sell more TT kits that I am now not allowed to even post as sales thread on here.

If everyone here really took the time to read Bullit's explanation you would realize a couple things. Going after Sam in Bankruptcy court is your only option. Taking matters into your own hands and trying to physically harm someone after announcing it on a public forum..?.. c'mon you're silly and obviously talking from something you sit on. Taking matters into your own hands and try to publicly post his personal information all over the internet so he can be harassed..?.. again, silly, what gain will you get from that? Blaming the investors for bad business created by GTM..?.. Do you think they looked at GTM and ripped their shirts open and said "have no fear, we will save the day" and decided to invest. Or would you think that they look at the product and agree that it's a quality product that there is a demand for which makes it a good investment?

The part about Sam being listed as the owner makes plenty of sense if you take the time to comprehend what Bullit is trying to educate you on.

Oh and vendors act as the advocate for the customer, not the manufacturer. Any time my customers have a problem with a product I answer their calls, I reply to their e-mails and I facilitate the remedy to the situation. So for Sam to choose to make things right with a vendor first while he is tied up in litigation with a bunch of people is the only way Gammas products will leave their shop.

I am in the business of making money and I get that done by selling parts. When a vendor is hindering me from doing so by lying, cheating or stealing, they go away very quickly. When I am filled with false promises, ignored and every transaction becomes a painful mess, they go away quickly. I have vendors I simply wont subject my customers to, if you ask me for it I will tell exactly why I wont sell it to you. We work under the premise that everything is our fault when something goes wrong, that the middle man becomes the manufacturer when something goes wrong and on occasion I have been personally attacked or blamed. I love what I do though and I need all of you to help me put food on my plate.

Gamma has a huge hill to climb and those standing in the way with their problems with GTM have a right to demand answers and get things resolved but it has to be done through the proper channels. It can't be fueled by hate and threats and emotions.

That's just my two cents. I mean no offense because I have lived a life where I have been in situations like this but what really gets under my skin is the people who come on here to just join in on the negative. Stop putting fuel on the fire. Nothing gets accomplished under a hot head, cooler minds will prevail. Work together, get in on the lawsuit and build your case to get your justice.

Todd

I just want my kit that I ordered and payed in full in November of 2014 with no idea a bankruptcy was happening,I want my kit so I can continue to buy parts from vendors such as vivid and others to build AN AMAZING 370Z

vividracing · 10-01-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiller

I just want my kit that I ordered and payed in full in November of 2014 with no idea a bankruptcy was happening,I want my kit so I can continue to buy parts from vendors such as vivid and others to build AN AMAZING 370Z

Amen brother! I really do sympathize with you. Heck I would love for them to refund your money and everyone else's so I can get rid of the G37 kit I have. I just don't know how much you can bleed a rock!

10-01-2015, 07:15 PM	#80 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Birdman you are 100% right. vividracing and birdman71 like this. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

10-01-2015, 07:29 PM	#84 (permalink)
birdman71 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,579 Drives: People Crazy! Rep Power: 40	Me neither, I'm not involved but I can understand where every side is coming from and the logic and reasoning behind it. Sam does need to be put on blast, but not completely harassed and bashed and honestly the best way to do so would be with a Small Claims Lawsuit, if GAMMA does not start offering some sort of incentive to pay more money into their products, cause not only does it show him what he did was wrong and cannot just get away with it by another company trying to fix his mistakes. If Gamma say offers the piping and SC, to the one poster here with the SC issue, for $2200 but offers upgraded manifolds or some sort of upgrade to their current kit, that seems logical. But a price raise and then no incentive plus being out money currently on a kit that is no where or partially found is a rip off I don't how healthy Sam is currently or know how much Sam understands that he is still 100% liable for everything that happened with GTM, but I do hope that he is doing better. Honestly customers who purchased into the group buy or bought GTM parts and lost their money have three options: 1. Small claims suit to get your money back (could take multiple years or end in bankruptcy to where he doesn't pay any of it lol) OR 2. See about working a deal with the new company for an incentive of some sort, literally ask them "What can you offer me to earn me as a loyal customer besides taking over GTM's mistake?" (and offering to fix it for more money cough cough). See what they can do for you. Free shipping even at this point for some people who don't have a kit even would be nice. 3. Custom build the rest of your kit For the customers out there that are complaining about paying more money, just remember that a true business model is "Spend money to Make Money" (look @ investors Careers lol) Not only is GAMMA having to deal with normal business operations (costs money), but also with the purchase of GTM (costs money), the purchasing of an increased amount of parts (costs money) for these GTM customers that were not correctly giving product in the first place, and then shipping, worker's cost etc. etc. if you bring in every little thing they actually have to pay for for everything they are trying to help with, I'm sure they are in over their head and are trying to recoup money. Sadly just not doing it in the right way to where it fixes what GTM has made a mess. Paraphrasing what bullitt said if they keep down this road they will not have a big enough market group with this investment they made with buying GTM and eventually have problems themselves. Can only go on so long just spending money without making anything. Yes it is a lot of money we are talking on both sides of the spectrum, customer and manufacture. __________________ *Birdman's Build:* Powerhouse Amuse/ Nismo/ Eibach/ ACT/ Tommy Kaira/ Avant Garde/ Fast Intentions/ Project Kics/ Fly 1 Motorsports/ EVO-R/ Z1 Motorsports/ Weber Sports/ Zoom/ Zele Japan Last edited by birdman71; 10-01-2015 at 07:42 PM.

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10-01-2015, 07:18 PM	#81 (permalink)
hjo1078 Track Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: virginia Age: 46 Posts: 572 Drives: twin turbo 370z Rep Power: 5395	But why the ** would sam post some ** like this on their fb page then. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-01-2015, 07:26 PM	#83 (permalink)
SolarO350Z Base Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Denver Age: 47 Posts: 9 Drives: 07 350Z Rep Power: 10	He only made good with vendors. A lot of them were also waiting over a year. Sure make good with the vendors why? Cause they have loyal customers to help Gamma grow. Priority. Screw everyone else and the GB people. I would like to know if GB people got their kits or refunds?