Stillen Air to Air setup

TopgunZ · 06-20-2015, 12:41 PM

Well here is what is trying to cool this v3.

victorofhavoc · 06-22-2015, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Well here is what is trying to cool this v3.

hmm...pretty much exactly what I expected. Still can't wait to see your results!

ANMVQ · 06-22-2015, 12:39 PM

WOW thats out of the intake plenum :/. UG

ANMVQ · 06-22-2015, 12:39 PM

BTW PM me about your BP kit plans

TopgunZ · 06-22-2015, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANMVQ

WOW thats out of the intake plenum :/. UG

Yeah. Thats why this thing is only good for their carb approval kit of 8psi and it is not designed to cool off anything over that.

TKomodo · 06-23-2015, 04:40 PM

That IC is just the manifold part of the system. Upgrading the external heat exchanger make a big difference in IAT.

The Frozen Boost exchanger is quite a bit larger than the Stillen exchanger.

TopgunZ · 06-23-2015, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKomodo

That IC is just the manifold part of the system. Upgrading the external heat exchanger make a big difference in IAT.

The Frozen Boost exchanger is quite a bit larger than the Stillen exchanger.

Yes but even if that front mount was the size of the whole bumper itself it wouldn't be able to handle the heat generated at 10+ psi. It ALL still has to go through the 3 whole inches of aftercooler core in the mani. That is the ONLY part that cools the charge air.

How do we know how much more efficiently that frozen boost front mount is cooling the charge? Has anyone taken an aftermarket intake temp sensor and stuck it in the manifold after the cooler and measured the stillen one, then put the frozen boost one on it and measured that one? I am sure it does drop it down some. However, at 9psi and stillen ic at 200* ait's and frozen boost at 180* is still not efficient enough to crank the boost up to 12psi. You will be seeing iat's that will be disastrous. That's what this whole thread is solving.

swiss370Z · 06-23-2015, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

How do we know how much more efficiently that frozen boost front mount is cooling the charge?
Has anyone taken an aftermarket intake temp sensor and stuck it in the manifold after the cooler and measured

There's someone ... who has this plan

If my "Z" is finally back, I will Report......sometime

.....of waiting

swiss370Z · 06-23-2015, 09:52 PM

BTW:

I found this

TKomodo · 06-24-2015, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Yes but even if that front mount was the size of the whole bumper itself it wouldn't be able to handle the heat generated at 10+ psi. It ALL still has to go through the 3 whole inches of aftercooler core in the mani. That is the ONLY part that cools the charge air.

How do we know how much more efficiently that frozen boost front mount is cooling the charge? Has anyone taken an aftermarket intake temp sensor and stuck it in the manifold after the cooler and measured the stillen one, then put the frozen boost one on it and measured that one? I am sure it does drop it down some. However, at 9psi and stillen ic at 200* ait's and frozen boost at 180* is still not efficient enough to crank the boost up to 12psi. You will be seeing iat's that will be disastrous. That's what this whole thread is solving.

the Frozen Boost exchanger doesn't cool the intake air, it cools the water that circulates through the intake manifold. So, where would you put that sensor? I can tell you that the difference when driving before and after installing the Frozen Boost unit is very noticeable. Heat soak is a lot harder to reach than with the Stillen exchanger.

Z&I · 06-24-2015, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiss370Z

BTW:

I found this

CIN Motorsports custom Bracket with Vortech V7 SC'r, Gates Green Stripe Belts, CIN Custom Intake - Tried to get one, but Bobby had designed and built this for a customer and wasn't ready to go in to full production with it.

TopgunZ · 06-25-2015, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKomodo

the Frozen Boost exchanger doesn't cool the intake air, it cools the water that circulates through the intake manifold. So, where would you put that sensor? I can tell you that the difference when driving before and after installing the Frozen Boost unit is very noticeable. Heat soak is a lot harder to reach than with the Stillen exchanger.

Does your motor run on water? Or air and fuel?

Intake temps bro. Intake manifold or plenum, whatever.

victorofhavoc · 06-25-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Does your motor run on water? Or air and fuel?

Intake temps bro. Intake manifold or plenum, whatever.

Do you think replacing that intake core you pulled out with a copper one would help reduce IAT? Water traditionally is more efficient than air...heat soak is another story, but I would think the peltier effect of the stillen water cooling could be greatly improved with some copper core units on either end for more efficient heat transfer. Then again, flow v. rate of cooling is a factor as well. Improving the flow and allowing sufficient time for water to be cooled could in fact make this system very efficient. Has anyone yet tried increasing the tubing diameter, flow rate (bigger pump?), and core size all together?

TopgunZ · 06-25-2015, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorofhavoc

Do you think replacing that intake core you pulled out with a copper one would help reduce IAT? Water traditionally is more efficient than air...heat soak is another story, but I would think the peltier effect of the stillen water cooling could be greatly improved with some copper core units on either end for more efficient heat transfer. Then again, flow v. rate of cooling is a factor as well. Improving the flow and allowing sufficient time for water to be cooled could in fact make this system very efficient. Has anyone yet tried increasing the tubing diameter, flow rate (bigger pump?), and core size all together?

I have never seen or heard of a copper cooler. They may exist and yes copper has better heat transfer rate. Its probably a cost thing. It would be insanely expensive to manufacture vs aluminum. Water is more efficient but once it heat soaks its done. On a track it will never cool back down in time to make it useful. If you hit it full throttle on the street then drove around for a couple of minutes at cruising speed it would then become closer to ambient but never fully ambient as that manifold can cook eggs on it and it becomes an oven for the aftercooler inside of it. You are then recirculating hot water all the time.

People have tried bigger hoses, bigger storage tanks, bigger pumps and bigger front mounts. Another thing is to get that storage tank out of the hot engine bay. If you really want a low pressure drop water to air you would need to pipe it so the aftercooler is mounted in the front bumper and not in the oven manifold. Like a barrel style.

victorofhavoc · 06-25-2015, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I have never seen or heard of a copper cooler. They may exist and yes copper has better heat transfer rate. Its probably a cost thing. It would be insanely expensive to manufacture vs aluminum. Water is more efficient but once it heat soaks its done. On a track it will never cool back down in time to make it useful. If you hit it full throttle on the street then drove around for a couple of minutes at cruising speed it would then become closer to ambient but never fully ambient as that manifold can cook eggs on it and it becomes an oven for the aftercooler inside of it. You are then recirculating hot water all the time.

People have tried bigger hoses, bigger storage tanks, bigger pumps and bigger front mounts. Another thing is to get that storage tank out of the hot engine bay. If you really want a low pressure drop water to air you would need to pipe it so the aftercooler is mounted in the front bumper and not in the oven manifold. Like a barrel style.

hmm. yeah cost of copper isn't cheap at all. Tank outside of the engine bay would work well. I'm sure there's a lot that can be done with water, including going to a liquid which is insulated better (like a glycol-DI water mix). Obviosuly using plain tap water will cause the liquid to gas and leave sediment behind quite quickly, haha. Now that I think about it more, I've worked on systems where liquid can be extremely efficient, but the cost of setup makes it ridiculous sometimes...

06-22-2015, 12:39 PM	#63 (permalink)
ANMVQ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Framingham MA Posts: 2,732 Drives: 2014 Q50 AWD Rep Power: 19	WOW thats out of the intake plenum :/. UG __________________ 14 Q50 AWD, ARK, ECUTEK (SEB), Takda,

06-22-2015, 12:39 PM	#64 (permalink)
ANMVQ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Framingham MA Posts: 2,732 Drives: 2014 Q50 AWD Rep Power: 19	BTW PM me about your BP kit plans __________________ 14 Q50 AWD, ARK, ECUTEK (SEB), Takda,

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