DDMotorsports: Kognition Design Wing Development

SpawnAeroJohn · 10-07-2009, 11:33 AM

^ Having them glassed or welded shut with some body work and allot of paint. But that can cost around 500.

Carbon fiber hatch if there is one (we were working on one but lack of demand has slowed us down. We only have one side of a mold and we haven’t made the other)

But the cheapest way is to get little interior fasteners (little button clips they use on cars) paint them white, and pop them in.

That’s around 3 bucks for a pack of clips at auto zone and then maybe 20 bucks for a spray can from automotivetouchups.com where you can get a color matched paint can and spray them your self. (I think that’s the link)

Other then that I love that wing!

SpawnAeroJohn · 10-07-2009, 11:34 AM

AHH he beat me with a reply while I was typing... :P

M.Bonanni · 10-07-2009, 01:38 PM

Here is a side shot he just sent me!

phelan · 10-07-2009, 06:59 PM

Need to see more of that haha

I have to admit though, something seems wrong with that pic. One of the angles is irking me, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet.

travisjb · 10-07-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelan

Need to see more of that haha

I have to admit though, something seems wrong with that pic. One of the angles is irking me, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet.

I think I know what you mean... you're probably used to seeing these mounted up farther forward on the rear deck. This one is rearward of a typical car you'd see on the street. E.g., imagine if the mounts jutted straight up from the horizontal section of the rear deck... is that what's bugging you ?

M.Bonanni · 10-09-2009, 07:34 PM

More update pics!

Here is the finished, but un-coated, stand...

Now here's where it might get a little confusing, or at least I was a little confused at first. The large metal piece pictured here will be used to help make the base of the wing. Now the bottom edge of the piece shows how large of a surface area the wing bases will take up in order to distribute the force the wing will be putting down on our flimsy aluminum hatches. Now I believe the actual final base will only go upwards to the mounting bolts for the stands. The rest of the metal piece in the photo is just extra. Get it? The bases will not be as tall or large as the actual metal piece, but they will be as wide as the bottom edge.

Either way, I pick the car up from Kognition on Sunday and drive it back to Vegas. There is a chance that I will be driving it back without a finished wing as it will be hard to get the actual finished product done in time, but he is confident that the molds will all be done by the time I pick the car up and then he will deliver and install the wing sometime before SEMA.

In other exciting Kognition news, he has just been commissioned by Chris Rado and World Racing to build wings for their famous bi-winged beast of a Scion tC! Pretty big compliment to Kognition coming from a team who obviously focuses majorly on aerodynamics.

phelan · 10-11-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisjb

I think I know what you mean... you're probably used to seeing these mounted up farther forward on the rear deck. This one is rearward of a typical car you'd see on the street. E.g., imagine if the mounts jutted straight up from the horizontal section of the rear deck... is that what's bugging you ?

i think that is part of it, but then again i haven't really put a LOT of thought into it....there's still something else haha, but that's a big part of it yea

M.Bonanni · 10-12-2009, 01:56 PM

Picked the car up yesterday from Kognition. Molds are done and he is making the final product this week, then coming up to Vegas to install the finished product sometime towards the end of the week!

M.Bonanni · 10-19-2009, 03:13 PM

Some more updated pics! He has been taking his time a little with the wing itself since he isn't able to install it until this coming weekend anyway, but here are some updated pics!

Here is one of the test bases made from the mold. The final version may be a tad different shape on the bottom, but we'll see.

And here is the mold for the wing itself.

Shunya · 10-22-2009, 10:21 AM

Looks really heavy imo

M.Bonanni · 10-22-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shunya

Looks really heavy imo

What the mold? I am sure it is.

M.Bonanni · 11-17-2009, 10:41 PM

So we finally got the opportunity to get the wing on the car and test it at Auto Club Speedway this past weekend. Auto Club Speedway is probably the fastest track on the west coast as it uses 2/3 of the NASCAR oval. My 370Z was reaching speeds upwards of 140-145mph at the end of the front straight. What better place to test a wing.

Well, lets just say we learned a lot. The good news is that the wing produces MONSTER downforce. The new profile Kognition came up with is nothing short of amazing. The bad news is, this first prototype will have to be revised some in the strenght department. The wing produced so much downforce at ~120mph that it literally folded both ends of the carbon fiber wing like a straw, something I didn't even think was possible. Here we were concerned about the hatch mounts, which held up incredibly (you can probably tow the car with them), but the weak point was the carbon fiber itself.

Although it is a bummer that the wing will need some re-designing in the strength department, Kognition and myself are both as excited as we can be that the wing was far more effective than we had hoped. The wing broke at the end of my warm up lap so I didn't have too much time on the track with it, but just judging by how the car felt on the warm up lap, lets just say I can't wait until the revised version is done.

Kognition already knows what he needs to revise to keep it as light weight as possible (the one we tested was only 5 lbs.) but be strong enough to hold up to the downforce it is producing.

Anyway, here are some photos. Also the end plates will also be dry carbon fiber on production models.

Everything ready to get installed!

Wing mounts and uprights installed.

The whole shebang installed and waiting to go out on track. 68" wide, as tall as the roofline, and built to the extent of the Redline Time Attack Street Class rules!

And the area where the wing folded like a straw. It was identical on the other end as well.

Not a very flattering angle, but on track shot probably 30 seconds before melt down.

Knives · 11-17-2009, 11:24 PM

Congrats on the relative overall success of the prototype.

Would pushing the wing mounts farther out a little more towards the edge of the trunk increase the strength of the outer edges of the wing, seeing as that was the weak point?

M.Bonanni · 11-17-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knives

Congrats on the relative overall success of the prototype.

Would pushing the wing mounts farther out a little more towards the edge of the trunk increase the strength of the outer edges of the wing, seeing as that was the weak point?

It would but where they are at right now is the strongest part of the hatch. It would be easier just to run titanium rods or something through the wing to keep it rigid.

Knives · 11-18-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDMotorsports

It would but where they are at right now is the strongest part of the hatch. It would be easier just to run titanium rods or something through the wing to keep it rigid.

True. Keep us posted.

10-07-2009, 01:38 PM	#18 (permalink)
M.Bonanni The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,575 Drives: Fast Rep Power: 1321	Here is a side shot he just sent me! __________________ MikeBonanni.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/MikeBonanni Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MBonanni36 Function > Form

10-07-2009, 06:59 PM	#19 (permalink)
phelan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Age: 38 Posts: 9,513 Drives: Scoobaroo Rep Power: 3406	Need to see more of that haha I have to admit though, something seems wrong with that pic. One of the angles is irking me, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet. __________________ 凛 ('Rin') - 2009 Nissan 370Z With silence comes peace. With peace comes freedom. With freedom comes silence.

10-09-2009, 07:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
M.Bonanni The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,575 Drives: Fast Rep Power: 1321	More update pics! Here is the finished, but un-coated, stand... Now here's where it might get a little confusing, or at least I was a little confused at first. The large metal piece pictured here will be used to help make the base of the wing. Now the bottom edge of the piece shows how large of a surface area the wing bases will take up in order to distribute the force the wing will be putting down on our flimsy aluminum hatches. Now I believe the actual final base will only go upwards to the mounting bolts for the stands. The rest of the metal piece in the photo is just extra. Get it? The bases will not be as tall or large as the actual metal piece, but they will be as wide as the bottom edge. Either way, I pick the car up from Kognition on Sunday and drive it back to Vegas. There is a chance that I will be driving it back without a finished wing as it will be hard to get the actual finished product done in time, but he is confident that the molds will all be done by the time I pick the car up and then he will deliver and install the wing sometime before SEMA. In other exciting Kognition news, he has just been commissioned by Chris Rado and World Racing to build wings for their famous bi-winged beast of a Scion tC! Pretty big compliment to Kognition coming from a team who obviously focuses majorly on aerodynamics. __________________ MikeBonanni.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/MikeBonanni Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MBonanni36 Function > Form

10-12-2009, 01:56 PM	#23 (permalink)
M.Bonanni The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,575 Drives: Fast Rep Power: 1321	Picked the car up yesterday from Kognition. Molds are done and he is making the final product this week, then coming up to Vegas to install the finished product sometime towards the end of the week! __________________ MikeBonanni.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/MikeBonanni Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MBonanni36 Function > Form

10-19-2009, 03:13 PM	#24 (permalink)
M.Bonanni The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,575 Drives: Fast Rep Power: 1321	Some more updated pics! He has been taking his time a little with the wing itself since he isn't able to install it until this coming weekend anyway, but here are some updated pics! Here is one of the test bases made from the mold. The final version may be a tad different shape on the bottom, but we'll see. And here is the mold for the wing itself. __________________ MikeBonanni.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/MikeBonanni Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MBonanni36 Function > Form

10-07-2009, 11:33 AM	#16 (permalink)
SpawnAeroJohn NOT A CURRENT VENDOR Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 609 Drives: you Rep Power: 17	^ Having them glassed or welded shut with some body work and allot of paint. But that can cost around 500. Carbon fiber hatch if there is one (we were working on one but lack of demand has slowed us down. We only have one side of a mold and we haven’t made the other) But the cheapest way is to get little interior fasteners (little button clips they use on cars) paint them white, and pop them in. That’s around 3 bucks for a pack of clips at auto zone and then maybe 20 bucks for a spray can from automotivetouchups.com where you can get a color matched paint can and spray them your self. (I think that’s the link) Other then that I love that wing!

10-07-2009, 11:34 AM	#17 (permalink)
SpawnAeroJohn NOT A CURRENT VENDOR Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 609 Drives: you Rep Power: 17	AHH he beat me with a reply while I was typing... :P

10-22-2009, 10:21 AM	#25 (permalink)
Shunya A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver Posts: 3,069 Drives: You Crazy! Rep Power: 22	Looks really heavy imo

11-17-2009, 10:41 PM	#27 (permalink)
M.Bonanni The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,575 Drives: Fast Rep Power: 1321	So we finally got the opportunity to get the wing on the car and test it at Auto Club Speedway this past weekend. Auto Club Speedway is probably the fastest track on the west coast as it uses 2/3 of the NASCAR oval. My 370Z was reaching speeds upwards of 140-145mph at the end of the front straight. What better place to test a wing. Well, lets just say we learned a lot. The good news is that the wing produces MONSTER downforce. The new profile Kognition came up with is nothing short of amazing. The bad news is, this first prototype will have to be revised some in the strenght department. The wing produced so much downforce at ~120mph that it literally folded both ends of the carbon fiber wing like a straw, something I didn't even think was possible. Here we were concerned about the hatch mounts, which held up incredibly (you can probably tow the car with them), but the weak point was the carbon fiber itself. Although it is a bummer that the wing will need some re-designing in the strength department, Kognition and myself are both as excited as we can be that the wing was far more effective than we had hoped. The wing broke at the end of my warm up lap so I didn't have too much time on the track with it, but just judging by how the car felt on the warm up lap, lets just say I can't wait until the revised version is done. Kognition already knows what he needs to revise to keep it as light weight as possible (the one we tested was only 5 lbs.) but be strong enough to hold up to the downforce it is producing. Anyway, here are some photos. Also the end plates will also be dry carbon fiber on production models. Everything ready to get installed! Wing mounts and uprights installed. The whole shebang installed and waiting to go out on track. 68" wide, as tall as the roofline, and built to the extent of the Redline Time Attack Street Class rules! And the area where the wing folded like a straw. It was identical on the other end as well. Not a very flattering angle, but on track shot probably 30 seconds before melt down. __________________ MikeBonanni.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/MikeBonanni Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MBonanni36 Function > Form

11-17-2009, 11:24 PM	#28 (permalink)
Knives Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: New York Posts: 293 Drives: 2009 370z 6MT Rep Power: 16	Congrats on the relative overall success of the prototype. Would pushing the wing mounts farther out a little more towards the edge of the trunk increase the strength of the outer edges of the wing, seeing as that was the weak point?

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