Starting carbon fiber fabrication, questions

Gauge · 08-01-2012, 01:47 PM

How many layers of carbon fiber do you think is necessary for doing vanity things (non-functional) carbon fiber parts for the interior? Like the power window switch panel and things like that.

How many CF layers are good for strength vs. weight on exterior car parts like the hood and such.

I want to start with interior without vaccum resin infusion. Just layering by hand. But I would eventually like to make some molds of my exterior parts and use resin infusion to make those. How many layers to use is really the question.

bullitt5897 · 08-01-2012, 02:23 PM

The internet is full of tutorials... I will caution you that it is a big commitment to go down this route and if you are going to go down this route and make molds and such you will have a HUGE learning curve. Spawn aero learned the hard way and it ended up with them banned on nearly every internet forum in the world. You are also in a cold weather state so expect to have issues of cold weather for much of the year... The cold weather is going to affect not only your molds but the consistency of your parts... Most beginning companies start with one to three layers of carbon depending on the part and some use fiberglass backing to save on cost...

A word to the wise it is not as easy as it looks and be prepared to do a LOT of revisions to make things look right. Also, there is a lot of consumables involved with this kind of endeavor as well.

Wrapping may be a better solution...

Mike

Gauge · 08-01-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim@UAM

This guy is a SCAMMER

Show yourself the door please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt@UAMotorsports

The internet is full of tutorials... I will caution you that it is a big commitment to go down this route and if you are going to go down this route and make molds and such you will have a HUGE learning curve. Spawn aero learned the hard way and it ended up with them banned on nearly every internet forum in the world. You are also in a cold weather state so expect to have issues of cold weather for much of the year... The cold weather is going to affect not only your molds but the consistency of your parts... Most beginning companies start with one to three layers of carbon depending on the part and some use fiberglass backing to save on cost...

A word to the wise it is not as easy as it looks and be prepared to do a LOT of revisions to make things look right. Also, there is a lot of consumables involved with this kind of endeavor as well.

Wrapping may be a better solution...

Mike

While I respect your wisdom. The investment I put into "trying" it is money I can basically throw away. I bought a beginner "kit" just to try to do some iterations to see what works and what doesn't. I'm very aware (based on research) that this is a time and learning commitment. I'm prepared to make that commitment. I'm also not trying to sell parts. I'm just doing this to start a new hobby, and maybe make some parts at cost for friends if it works out.

I was going to go for 2 layers but I think 3 is the way most people go for interior. But I might consider just wrapping over the plastic as you stated. The problem with wrapping is that if I screw up I can't try again. With a mold I can try as many times as I want.

As far as wrapping interior parts I almost think wrapping might be the better option. CF will weigh more than plastic of the same thickness won't it? So a one layer wrap of CF will probably weigh less than a 3 layer pure CF part.

Of course on exterior parts you can't make this compromise. Also I'm not going to use fiberglass. I think adding layers of fiber glass under the first layer defeats the point. I'm not someone who is satisfied with something just looking pretty, it must be functional as well. If you're going to use a combo of CF and FB then you might as well wrap IMO. That is unless it's function is outside of what CF is supposed to do. Like interior parts.

Thanks for your constructive post though.

gbrettin · 08-01-2012, 03:50 PM

Gauge - Take lots of notes through your process for beginners. I think it would be great to hear about all the trials your run into and how you overcome them. I have been considering doing some CF work as a hobby too. I haven't quite pulled the trigger yet because I've been working on other items related to my job... damn certifications...

Gauge · 08-01-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbrettin

Gauge - Take lots of notes through your process for beginners. I think it would be great to hear about all the trials your run into and how you overcome them. I have been considering doing some CF work as a hobby too. I haven't quite pulled the trigger yet because I've been working on other items related to my job... damn certifications...

Sure thing man! I plan to take boat loads of photos and stuff

Kingbaby · 08-01-2012, 03:56 PM

youtube has tutorials!

It's pretty easy once you have the tools as is anything...

I've played with the idea as well, and it's pointless to pursue. It's easier to wrap in carbon and trim the skeleton a bit.

Bick · 08-01-2012, 04:15 PM

Most hobbies are useless, it's more about what it does for you. I say go for it! It would be pretty cool to have unique pieces. Would love to see what you come up with, I'd follow your hobby online if you post it up.

Carbon_z · 08-01-2012, 04:59 PM

we wrap several pieces

making molds or anything else would involve more time and money... just saying. Wrapping is more affordable and the weight of plastic being wrapped over is hardly noticeable. A plastic window switch panel weights 0.20 lbs I think lol

Gauge · 08-08-2012, 02:56 PM

Got my kit, wanted to take out the CF to look at it. The first note I have is how fragile the weave is. It starts to come a part VERY easy.

I'll be making the mold tonight and am basically just going to take an insane amount of time putting the first layer of CF on when I do so that the twill weave looks right and not deformed.

After playing with it, I have no clue how you would do this with large pieces like hoods. I imagine there is just some amount of play in the weave you have to expect. How little there is probably determines the skill of the person making it.

Anyways I'll take pics and keep you guys updated.

christian370z · 08-08-2012, 03:41 PM

Good luck with everything, I also looked into getting a kit to try my hand at wrapping some parts but never got around to it. Make sure you post the results!

Mr&Mrs · 08-09-2012, 05:49 PM

I have never worked with CF, but recenty with fiberglass. The weave is similar is it not? I noticed with the fiberglass it being very fragil as well. Once I got it wet with resin it was easy to manipulate and keep the weave even and smooth. The tricky part for me was edges!

Gauge · 08-09-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs

I have never worked with CF, but recenty with fiberglass. The weave is similar is it not? I noticed with the fiberglass it being very fragil as well. Once I got it wet with resin it was easy to manipulate and keep the weave even and smooth. The tricky part for me was edges!

Fiberglass you don't have to worry about the weave as much because normally you paint over it. I don't think most people use a weave for fiberglass, more like a wacky jumbled up mesh.

nismochiq · 08-09-2012, 06:58 PM

If you want to make molds, I suggest calling up nissan for the blue prints or the molds itself. after that you are going to need alot of industrial equipment because curing layers upon layers and not expecting it to warp without properly using a warp clock doesn't look too good. then there is which weave, twill, uni, bi directional, cure temp with material, what material is imbedded compensating for the temperatures. all that fun stuff.

DarkJak · 08-09-2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauge

Fiberglass you don't have to worry about the weave as much because normally you paint over it. I don't think most people use a weave for fiberglass, more like a wacky jumbled up mesh.

I just used fiberglass to reinforce my longboard today. You can buy it in a woven cloth that is easier to handle and stronger. In that form I'd bet it's similar to CF, but CF weave is larger and would probably be much harder to work with because of that. I'd love to see how this turns out for you, since using CF to reinforce has crossed my mind a few times.

Mr&Mrs · 08-10-2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauge

Fiberglass you don't have to worry about the weave as much because normally you paint over it. I don't think most people use a weave for fiberglass, more like a wacky jumbled up mesh.

You looked a little further into that statement than I meant for you to. What I was trying to get across is once resin was applied it was very easy to manipulate and get even, maybe CF (I have not worked with) will be similar.

08-01-2012, 01:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
Gauge Track Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Madison WI Posts: 867 Drives: 2012 370Z Nismo PW Rep Power: 15	Starting carbon fiber fabrication, questions How many layers of carbon fiber do you think is necessary for doing vanity things (non-functional) carbon fiber parts for the interior? Like the power window switch panel and things like that. How many CF layers are good for strength vs. weight on exterior car parts like the hood and such. I want to start with interior without vaccum resin infusion. Just layering by hand. But I would eventually like to make some molds of my exterior parts and use resin infusion to make those. How many layers to use is really the question. __________________ I am a demon bolt slayer.

08-01-2012, 02:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	The internet is full of tutorials... I will caution you that it is a big commitment to go down this route and if you are going to go down this route and make molds and such you will have a HUGE learning curve. Spawn aero learned the hard way and it ended up with them banned on nearly every internet forum in the world. You are also in a cold weather state so expect to have issues of cold weather for much of the year... The cold weather is going to affect not only your molds but the consistency of your parts... Most beginning companies start with one to three layers of carbon depending on the part and some use fiberglass backing to save on cost... A word to the wise it is not as easy as it looks and be prepared to do a LOT of revisions to make things look right. Also, there is a lot of consumables involved with this kind of endeavor as well. Wrapping may be a better solution... Mike __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

08-01-2012, 04:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
Carbon_z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,694 Drives: Carbon Fiber 370z Rep Power: 19	we wrap several pieces making molds or anything else would involve more time and money... just saying. Wrapping is more affordable and the weight of plastic being wrapped over is hardly noticeable. A plastic window switch panel weights 0.20 lbs I think lol __________________ Full Carbon Fiber Nissan 370z "400zTT" Fully Built 4.0L Twin Turbo 1300hp, 1100whp. Follow me on Instagram at http://www.instagram.com/carbonz.

08-08-2012, 02:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
Gauge Track Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Madison WI Posts: 867 Drives: 2012 370Z Nismo PW Rep Power: 15	Got my kit, wanted to take out the CF to look at it. The first note I have is how fragile the weave is. It starts to come a part VERY easy. I'll be making the mold tonight and am basically just going to take an insane amount of time putting the first layer of CF on when I do so that the twill weave looks right and not deformed. After playing with it, I have no clue how you would do this with large pieces like hoods. I imagine there is just some amount of play in the weave you have to expect. How little there is probably determines the skill of the person making it. Anyways I'll take pics and keep you guys updated. __________________ I am a demon bolt slayer.

08-08-2012, 03:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
christian370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 3,900 Drives: 2010 370Z/Saab 900se Rep Power: 432	Good luck with everything, I also looked into getting a kit to try my hand at wrapping some parts but never got around to it. Make sure you post the results! __________________ -320whp / 259wftlbs- SP Rays -- RE-11s -- SpecialtyZ Tune -- Swift Springs -- Stillen 25R Oil Cooler -- Stillen G3 Intakes -- Berk HFCs -- F.I. 12" CBE -- Stillen Sway Bars -- Es14 Spring -- INGS+1 lip -- CF Spoiler -- GTR Start Button -- VLED Parking Lights -- PWJDM V2 shift knob

08-01-2012, 03:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
gbrettin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Portage, MI Posts: 2,297 Drives: Tricycle Rep Power: 589151	Gauge - Take lots of notes through your process for beginners. I think it would be great to hear about all the trials your run into and how you overcome them. I have been considering doing some CF work as a hobby too. I haven't quite pulled the trigger yet because I've been working on other items related to my job... damn certifications...

08-01-2012, 04:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bick Base Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 16 Drives: 2011 370Z BS A7 Rep Power: 13	Most hobbies are useless, it's more about what it does for you. I say go for it! It would be pretty cool to have unique pieces. Would love to see what you come up with, I'd follow your hobby online if you post it up.

08-09-2012, 05:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mr&Mrs A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,207 Drives: RZ34 Rep Power: 31941	I have never worked with CF, but recenty with fiberglass. The weave is similar is it not? I noticed with the fiberglass it being very fragil as well. Once I got it wet with resin it was easy to manipulate and keep the weave even and smooth. The tricky part for me was edges! __________________ Project Z <--Click - Check out the link too many mods to list!

08-09-2012, 06:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
nismochiq Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 296 Drives: Hard Rep Power: 15	If you want to make molds, I suggest calling up nissan for the blue prints or the molds itself. after that you are going to need alot of industrial equipment because curing layers upon layers and not expecting it to warp without properly using a warp clock doesn't look too good. then there is which weave, twill, uni, bi directional, cure temp with material, what material is imbedded compensating for the temperatures. all that fun stuff. __________________

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