Nissan 370Z Forum

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-   -   Clutch pedal feel (http://www.the370z.com/exterior-interior/123448-clutch-pedal-feel.html)

DrBacon 08-28-2017 07:37 PM

Clutch pedal feel
 
I recently traded in my 2013 7AT base for a 2014 6MT nismo and have been struggling with getting smooth first gear starts due to how the clutch pedal feels when slowly engaging the clutch. When the clutch is fully pressed down and I start releasing it's smooth for about the first half of the travel then suddenly when it hits approximately the "bite" point there's suddenly quite a bit of force from the pedal trying to spring up and it pushes my foot causing me to release the clutch much faster than I should (I've probably stalled the car half a dozen times so far in the very little driving I've done since I've owned it). When I bought the car from the dealer I was informed that an aftermarket clutch was put on (supposedly) and was curious if my clutch pedal engagement is normal for 370z or not?

Also, I glanced at the helper spring and it's yellow, not sure if this is oem or not.

tl;dr: non-linear clutch pedal movement, is this normal?

cooltoy 08-28-2017 07:51 PM

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...-problems.html

http://www.the370z.com/group-buys/37...er-spring.html

http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...ase-where.html

PaulNYz 08-28-2017 07:57 PM

I wouldn't know about aftermarket clutches since I don't have one, but when I had the OEM helper spring in, there was some force against my foot around the engagement point. Try holding the clutch at the bite for a few seconds while giving 1200-1500 rpm to get moving smoothly.

I'd suggest removing the helper spring to see if it feels the same. Yellow is stock. If you like the way it feels without it, order the $20 one found on ebay these days.

Don't feel bad about the stalling either lol, this was my first manual car as well and the ride home was a mess. After 7 months I still have my rough starts, but it's fluid 95% of the time.

crazy4oldcars 08-28-2017 08:15 PM

I've been driving for most of 40 years, after learning on a VW Beetle. Stock clutch on my Nismo, and I've managed to stall mine a few times, and had even more instances of jerky starts. At first I thought it was just me, but I'm not that clumsy, lol. It gets better with practice. Don't give up.

Kirk B.

littlejuanito 08-28-2017 08:20 PM

Yeah the stock clutch is horrible. Buy yourself the RJM adjustable clutch pedal now before you start pulling your hair.

s2krazyyy 08-28-2017 08:20 PM

Do yourself a favor and get the RJM clutch pedal assembly. Ive had other manual cars and the 370z clutch pedal feel is unacceptable for a sports car, I too stalled randomly because of the vague feeling you get from the stock one. The RJM clutch pedal transforms the way the car feels with its shorter throw and adjustability for engagement. I now feel connected to the car like it should have from the factory, nothing but easy and buttery smooth shifts with the RJM pedal.

Cyber370 08-29-2017 04:38 AM

I find my clutch engagement in my '16 Nismo smooth and progressive with no issues. I don't know if it was improved in my car but it sounds like to me that your problem may be related to the aftermarket clutch that was supposedly put in. But regardless, practice makes perfect. I know that some aftermarket performance clutches will have harder engagement than stock so that may be what you're experiencing.

Zthirty4NISMO 08-29-2017 08:57 AM

As suggested, get the RJM pedal..it just works. The spring he puts in the pedal assembly is a godsend..so smooth, linear, and predictable.

fantaZ 08-29-2017 09:25 AM

I have a RJM V2 for sale cheap pm me if you want it.

fantaZ 08-29-2017 09:47 AM

http://www.the370z.com/drivetrain-en...el-stroke.html

srbrubak 08-29-2017 10:27 AM

I don't have any issues with the clutch on my 2010. Everything feels ok and good for me. I learn to drive stick on a 1961 Ford F-100 that had 3 on the tree.

MaysEffect 08-29-2017 11:20 AM

I find it strange the Z has such a progressive clutch engagement, but not the G37. Do both of these cars use the same spring? I haven't actually checked, but i have noticed between the two cars, the G's bite point is bit more linear and easier in that regard.

I think for me, its not actually the pedal itself, but the angle of my leg on the two cars. With the G, i had a bit more of a bend at the knee at full compression. With the Z my leg was straight (primarily because i can't put the seat and steering wheel where i like) when fully compressed and it made my leg tense up aggressively when it got to the bite point. It made it mentally weird trying to modulate gas and clutch pressure. After a while i just trusted that the bite point was at X point and i gave gas. This wasn't always smooth though.

Is anyone else experiencing this sensation? This was in a 2011 nismo and a 2014 nismo compared to a 2013 G37s.

HIZZY 08-29-2017 02:25 PM

it's all about the driver IMO.

my 17 nismo feels great.... only thing still getting used to is the 1st gear into 2nd gear can be a bit tricky to get through smoothly.


cheers:twocents:

ayrton88 08-29-2017 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIZZY (Post 3689101)
it's all about the driver IMO.

my 17 nismo feels great.... only thing still getting used to is the 1st gear into 2nd gear can be a bit tricky to get through smoothly.


cheers:twocents:

Yes, that's the only issue I had when I first got the car. Of course, I'm 65 years old and have driven some of the most god-awful sticks ever.

Benibiker 08-29-2017 05:50 PM

I hadn't driven a stick in about 10 years but have been lucky to not stall it out yet (knock on wood). I've discovered the OEM clutch engages best at a very low RPM around 700-800 but of course you run the risk of stalling it with any wrong move.

NISMO IX 08-29-2017 06:42 PM

No! OP is right. There is a slight boing to the pedal at a certain point. The only way that it would be deemed "all about the driver" is not being able to adapt to it. Practice makes perfect, keep working with it and soon will feel like second nature.

Ventruck 08-29-2017 06:46 PM

Been debating the RJM on and off after break-in of my aftermarket flywheel/clutch setup has the engagement height near stock again. Only difference is that it's not as vague-feeling, but it's still a small window.

But at the same time, there's the arbitrary pleasure of knowing not many people know how to drive my car right.

I'm also wondering if the CMAK or Z1 delete setup changes up the feel.

Magic Bus 08-29-2017 07:55 PM

As others have said, go RJM pedal. Easier to drive and will most likely give you a lot longer life out of your CSC.

MplsPete 08-29-2017 08:42 PM

:iagree::driving:

nis350 08-29-2017 09:24 PM

care to explain in detail how the rjm pedal would provide longer life of the csc?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Bus (Post 3689210)
will most likely give you a lot longer life out of your CSC.


MaysEffect 08-29-2017 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nis350 (Post 3689247)
care to explain in detail how the rjm pedal would provide longer life of the csc?

Yea that seems a bit far fetched. But if the claims of smoother clutch engagement is a basis behind it, you would most likely not being slamming the clutch closed during engagement. In this case a smoother engagement would possibly warrant less destruction than a hard engagement at the incorrect rpm level.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HIZZY View Post
it's all about the driver IMO.
How tall are you, and how do you have your seat positioned?

Read T 08-29-2017 09:42 PM

And just in case your OEM pedal SHEARS off, don't bother calling Nissan for help. Ask me how I know.

MaysEffect 08-29-2017 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Read T (Post 3689253)
And just in case your OEM pedal SHEARS off, don't bother calling Nissan for help. Ask me how I know.

Were you gymkhana drift clutch kicking the shish out of it? :confused:

Magic Bus 08-30-2017 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nis350 (Post 3689247)
care to explain in detail how the rjm pedal would provide longer life of the csc?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaysEffect (Post 3689252)
Yea that seems a bit far fetched. But if the claims of smoother clutch engagement is a basis behind it, you would most likely not being slamming the clutch closed during engagement. In this case a smoother engagement would possibly warrant less destruction than a hard engagement at the incorrect rpm level.

Go to the link below and click on the video, he'll explain it better then I can. By the way, it's not a RJM representative or employee.

Home

My personal testimonial. I put the RJM pedal on my Z approx 2 months after I got it, not because I couldn't drive the Z, but thanks to this forum, I was concerned about the CSC. Over 5 years and 22,000 miles, yes it's low miles, but I live in downtown Honolulu and daily drive my car in the city, in the 2nd worst city for traffic in the US. My 22k miles equals probably at least 50k plus miles for clutch depressions for most other people.

I've also asked twice on this forum, for anyone who's installed a RJM pedal have a CSC failure and have received 0 response to both request. Will it totally prevent a CSC failure, probably not depending on when you put the RJM pedal in, but I placed a $240 insurance bet by purchasing and installing it when my car was new and I'd do it all over again if I bought another. Oh yes, I recommend that you both do it too. :tiphat:

s2krazyyy 08-30-2017 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nis350 (Post 3689247)
care to explain in detail how the rjm pedal would provide longer life of the csc?

Pulled this from RJM clutch pedal thread. Crossing my fingers but I have about 40k miles on my RJM clutch pedal with no CSC issues so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan @ RJM (Post 2566457)
Well since fellow owners haven't chimed in yet I'll take a shot at what I feel the important improvement points are:

First the factory pedal feels VERY numb and disconnected from what the clutch is actually doing. Not feeling what the clutch is doing takes away a lot of driver feedback which helps you feel the critical engagement points. This is due to the spring clutch assist mechanism Nissan used starting already back with the 350Z in 03'. Lighter springs are available from several people here but they make very limited improvement and I'd say 8 out of 10 370Z customers who buy my product tell me they wasted $20bucks trying the spring mod band-aid solution first but weren't happy with the results.

2nd is the long travel and very high engagement point where for a big guy like myself me knee was practically hitting the dash before the clutch would engage on the upstroke of the pedal. In factory form the clutch pedal is taller than the brake pedal height making it awkward to adjust the seat comfortbly, ideally both should be at the same height. This high pedal put me sitting almost all the way back to compensate which is a compromise at best. The RJM pedal allows you to safely lower the pedal height to be equal to or lower than the brake if you so choose.
I say safely as with the factory assembly altering the pedal height down messes with the function of the spring assist mechanism which can stick in assist mode and burn up your clutch and throw out bearing in short order.

3rd is the ability of the RJM to alter the pedals leverage ratio and master cylinder travel. By reducing the master cylinder travel it eliminates the excess travel at the bottom of the stroke and lowers the friction point closer to the floor which many find more enjoyable than a really tall friction point. The increase in pedal leverage means you have finer control over the clutch release and a wider range of pedal motion that is actively modulating the clutch. This leads to much smoother and faster 1-2 shifts which are hard to get consistently smooth on the factory 370Z pedal without a lot of effort put on getting the perfect timing and rpm's just right. With the RJM the 1-2 shift becomes smoother, easier and with less mental effort... it just comes naturally and more fluid which is hard to explain but must really be felt to understand.

4th, not really "feel' related and many don't know this but the RJM's reduction of excess pedal stroke and master cylinder travel reduces or eliminates the chance of OEM concentric slave cylinder failure. Slave failure is almost always the result of over stroking the CSC inside the bellhousing causing the seals to rupture when the CSC piston reaches the end of its designed travel but the master cylinder/clutch pedal continues to push. When the seals burst it's almost always instant death for the CSC. Plus it means getting towed and possibly replacing the clutch too if clutch fluid sprays onto the clutch disk permanently contaminating it.
Reducing the excess pedal stroke is a good thing for extending CSC life and I've had customers who've had 2 or 3 CSC's replaced in a row by the dealership who then installed the RJM pedal and never had the issue return. As well I've never heard of a single CSC failure from any customer running the RJM pedal in the past 2 years of sales while there are hundreds of other 370Z & G37 owners that are still struggling with CSC failures out there on the various owner forums.


ramoszx12r 08-30-2017 05:45 AM

:iagree:
Also I did the same plus I change my fluid before it gets dark, new
insulated line to keep the heat out. cheep insurances.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Bus (Post 3689279)
Go to the link below and click on the video, he'll explain it better then I can. By the way, it's not a RJM representative or employee.

Home

My personal testimonial. I put the RJM pedal on my Z approx 2 months after I got it, not because I couldn't drive the Z, but thanks to this forum, I was concerned about the CSC. Over 5 years and 22,000 miles, yes it's low miles, but I live in downtown Honolulu and daily drive my car in the city, in the 2nd worst city for traffic in the US. My 22k miles equals probably at least 50k plus miles for clutch depressions for most other people.

I've also asked twice on this forum, for anyone who's installed a RJM pedal have a CSC failure and have received 0 response to both request. Will it totally prevent a CSC failure, probably not depending on when you put the RJM pedal in, but I placed a $240 insurance bet by purchasing and installing it when my car was new and I'd do it all over again if I bought another. Oh yes, I recommend that you both do it too. :tiphat:


JARblue 08-30-2017 06:02 AM

Another vote for RJM clutch pedal assembly :tup:

night blade 08-30-2017 07:34 AM

Another vote here to, one of the first mods I did was the RJM clutch and couldn't be any happier, it changed the way I drove the Z.

DrBacon 08-30-2017 02:19 PM

Thank you everyone for your replies. I've ordered the rjm clutch pedal and will give it a try when it arrives, hopefully it's not too much of a pain in the *** to install. Not too sure why I can't figure out the Z's clutch, as I've driven other manual cars and never had this much trouble, hopefully the rjm clutch pedal will help with that.

redondoaveb 08-30-2017 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3689443)
Thank you everyone for your replies. I've ordered the rjm clutch pedal and will give it a try when it arrives, hopefully it's not too much of a pain in the *** to install. Not too sure why I can't figure out the Z's clutch, as I've driven other manual cars and never had this much trouble, hopefully the rjm clutch pedal will help with that.

I've owned nothing but manuals in all my cars and thought the same thing as you when I got my Z. RJM pedal is a must. Installation was easy for me. It was a two step process. Get in car, drive to mechanic. :rofl2:

Magic Bus 08-30-2017 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBacon (Post 3689443)
Thank you everyone for your replies. I've ordered the rjm clutch pedal and will give it a try when it arrives, hopefully it's not too much of a pain in the *** to install. Not too sure why I can't figure out the Z's clutch, as I've driven other manual cars and never had this much trouble, hopefully the rjm clutch pedal will help with that.

My installation took approx two & a half hours as it was the first time I ever worked on a clutch pedal. The hardest part is contorting your body to get in there, with your needed tools and light.

If you're going to do it yourself, find a short stool, platform, bench etc, that is about the same height as the Z's door and place it right outside of the car. This will give your back/body an extended platform to lie on. Once I figured this out, the installation became easier.

Good luck and I'm sure you'll find the RJM pedal an improvement.

NISMO IX 08-30-2017 04:39 PM

Well, I'm sold. I'll be doing this next I guess. Thanks guys.

fantaZ 08-30-2017 11:25 PM

installation is a lot easier if you remove the driver's seat.

JARblue 08-31-2017 08:28 AM

The newest pedal version is much easier to install than the older versions. I recommend just buying a new one from Ryan :twocents:

And just to be clear, I actually have an older version for sale, but I still recommend you buy the new version for ease of installation and adjustment.

2011 Nismo#91 08-31-2017 08:29 AM

For me when I got my Z I had been driving manuals for 10 years or so and still stalled it many times at first. The OEM clutch feel is not really that good, too soft and it's hard to tell where it starts to engage. Your having issues because you feel it starts to engage about half way, but unless your car is an exception to the norm the engagement point is about 80-90% of the way depressed. It just takes a little getting used to and getting the right amount of gas/clutch and then you won't have any issues any more. I don't think getting a different pedal or anything will help till you figure out the stock one.

Magic Bus 08-31-2017 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91 (Post 3689649)
For me when I got my Z I had been driving manuals for 10 years or so and still stalled it many times at first. The OEM clutch feel is not really that good, too soft and it's hard to tell where it starts to engage. Your having issues because you feel it starts to engage about half way, but unless your car is an exception to the norm the engagement point is about 80-90% of the way depressed. It just takes a little getting used to and getting the right amount of gas/clutch and then you won't have any issues any more. I don't think getting a different pedal or anything will help till you figure out the stock one.

Interesting take on this. As mentioned earlier, I was fine driving with the stock clutch, never had an issue with the engagement point and went the RJM route because of concern with the CSC issue. However after installing the RJM pedal, I noticed marked improvement in all driving situations except one.

The only area I preferred the stock clutch was stopped on a hill. Because of the more gradual take up of the RJM pedal, you need to release the clutch to a little past the initial contact point and feather the gas better to not have the car roll back a little, or apply too much gas, then you have that burning the clutch feeling. With the stock pedal, because of it's short engagement window. You'd just release it to the very initial contact point and the car just held on the hill, with no roll back, then apply gas gradually.

Having said that previous paragraph, I'd take the RJM pedal any day of the week versus stock, hills or no hills.

s2krazyyy 09-01-2017 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91 (Post 3689649)
For me when I got my Z I had been driving manuals for 10 years or so and still stalled it many times at first. The OEM clutch feel is not really that good, too soft and it's hard to tell where it starts to engage. Your having issues because you feel it starts to engage about half way, but unless your car is an exception to the norm the engagement point is about 80-90% of the way depressed. It just takes a little getting used to and getting the right amount of gas/clutch and then you won't have any issues any more. I don't think getting a different pedal or anything will help till you figure out the stock one.

The RJM clutch pedal highlights the engagement point. Like you said its hard to find the engagement point with the stock one, after I installed the RJM pedal I immediately knew/felt where this engagement window was. Not to mention you can adjust this window to where you want it. I definitely think the RJM pedal upgrade will help his issue. I mean I got used to the stock pedal but its just trash compared to other sports cars I have driven. The RJM pedal just makes the Z a better drivers car IMO.

JARblue 09-01-2017 08:39 AM

:iagree:

B&W_Evader 09-05-2017 09:43 AM

Keep debating on whether to get the RJ unit. You can always adjust the engagement point while your thinking about it. Check this post out back when I did mine. Made it a livable but it's still not great. Why they had to get fancy with the assembly is beyond me. The old simple linkages on cars made 40 years ago feel much better to me.

http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...ml#post2024536


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