Fuel Starvation revisited - help me understand

Robert Yuras · 01-02-2015, 09:03 PM

Yes, I know this is a topic that has been beat to heck, a million times. I know there is the CJ fuel pump upgrade kit available (for $1100) to remedy the starvation issue. I've researched the pump and seen how it works (very nice product and clearly works).

I'd like your input on a walk through as to what happens to make the car starve, as I have not had it occur.

It is to my best knowledge that the starvation occurs when fuel is sloshed over to the opposing side of the tank (away from the pick up), during long (high G) sweepers; with the issue becoming more prevalent as the fuel level becomes lower; thus allowing the car to go lean and move into limp mode. Is this correct? Or is the issue with the pump itself?

I've worked on circle track and road race cars for about 15 yrs now and fuel starvation is obviously an issue. However, there are many old ways of curing the issue that I believe are considerably more cost effective. For years we've been using trap doors, foam, movable pickups, and black boxes to solve all of these issues. Why is the Z so different? Since 2006 I've done Vettes primarily and they have saddle tanks too, but use a transfer system to keep the tanks at a constant level.

Any input and tank pictures would be appreciated. If anyone has cut one in half, that would be great to see also.

bruno t · 01-02-2015, 09:34 PM

...and would Holley hydramat help solve the problem.?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI

Robert Yuras · 01-02-2015, 09:47 PM

Hydramat is one of the many solutions out there that could be used in our application

DOOMMONKEY777 · 01-02-2015, 10:36 PM

Terrible baffle design, also pump has one side pickup only passengers side i believe.

Rusty · 01-03-2015, 04:37 AM

There is no baffling inside the tank.

Look at post 4 of my install thread. It has pictures of inside the tank.

phunk's road race fuel pump install

Robert Yuras · 01-03-2015, 09:13 AM

Has anyone tried wedging fuel cell foam across the trans tunnel area of the tank? Additionally, it appears a small collector tank could be used or a trap door box, at the base of the pump.

Is the tank steel? Or aluminum?

Rusty · 01-03-2015, 09:33 AM

It's steel.

Robert Yuras · 01-03-2015, 02:25 PM

Excellent. I need a spare tank now. I can make a drop in fix for this.

Anyone got one?

juld0zer · 01-03-2015, 06:19 PM

i think a wrecker might be your best bet

Rusty · 01-03-2015, 06:41 PM

Do you know what it takes to drop a tank?

Oh, it can be done.

Robert Yuras · 01-03-2015, 08:07 PM

You're misunderstanding. I believe I can make a solution that can be dropped into the tank using the two top ports (NOT dropping the tank). I need a stock tank to fabricate it. I sincerely believe the $1000 pump is nice, but too much cash for those of us not needing any additional fuel volume (other than the obvious issue).

Rusty · 01-03-2015, 08:14 PM

Not misunderstanding.

You said that you wanted a tank to play with. If you get one from a junk yard. What they would do, is flip the Z on it's roof to remove the tank in most cases. It's easier. Some yards won't do that until most of the car is stripped. Just sayin'.

Robert Yuras · 01-03-2015, 08:32 PM

haha, nice. I found one in CA for $110. $66 to ship though

I'm going to check insurance auto salvage here in SA TX in the coming week.

DOOMMONKEY777 · 01-03-2015, 11:30 PM

Am working on fuel stare fix that will be universal and it will cost about $100, just gimme time to test it out, so that the product is ready.

There will be a custom fit just for 370z and i guarantee it will pick up ur last drop, also other fuel filtering features will apply.

I will reveal everything at the appropriate time. Stay tuned.

ENT-Z · 01-04-2015, 09:27 PM

Curious to see what you both come up with!

01-02-2015, 09:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Robert Yuras Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 99 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 11	Fuel Starvation revisited - help me understand Yes, I know this is a topic that has been beat to heck, a million times. I know there is the CJ fuel pump upgrade kit available (for $1100) to remedy the starvation issue. I've researched the pump and seen how it works (very nice product and clearly works). I'd like your input on a walk through as to what happens to make the car starve, as I have not had it occur. It is to my best knowledge that the starvation occurs when fuel is sloshed over to the opposing side of the tank (away from the pick up), during long (high G) sweepers; with the issue becoming more prevalent as the fuel level becomes lower; thus allowing the car to go lean and move into limp mode. Is this correct? Or is the issue with the pump itself? I've worked on circle track and road race cars for about 15 yrs now and fuel starvation is obviously an issue. However, there are many old ways of curing the issue that I believe are considerably more cost effective. For years we've been using trap doors, foam, movable pickups, and black boxes to solve all of these issues. Why is the Z so different? Since 2006 I've done Vettes primarily and they have saddle tanks too, but use a transfer system to keep the tanks at a constant level. Any input and tank pictures would be appreciated. If anyone has cut one in half, that would be great to see also.

01-02-2015, 09:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
bruno t Base Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: montreal Posts: 1 Drives: Sentra - full race Rep Power: 12	...and would Holley hydramat help solve the problem.? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI glw likes this.

01-02-2015, 10:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
DOOMMONKEY777 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Crooklyn Posts: 1,008 Drives: 370Z 6psd-sport-pkg Rep Power: 21	Terrible baffle design, also pump has one side pickup only passengers side i believe. __________________ Kids don't do Drugs, Drugs are bad, so let the professional druggies do Drugs for you. 537whp/496lb/tq@8-9PSI 93 octane

01-03-2015, 04:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,219 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	There is no baffling inside the tank. Look at post 4 of my install thread. It has pictures of inside the tank. phunk's road race fuel pump install __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-03-2015, 09:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,219 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	It's steel. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-02-2015, 09:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
Robert Yuras Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 99 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 11	Hydramat is one of the many solutions out there that could be used in our application

01-03-2015, 09:13 AM	#6 (permalink)
Robert Yuras Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 99 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 11	Has anyone tried wedging fuel cell foam across the trans tunnel area of the tank? Additionally, it appears a small collector tank could be used or a trap door box, at the base of the pump. Is the tank steel? Or aluminum?

01-03-2015, 02:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Robert Yuras Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 99 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 11	Excellent. I need a spare tank now. I can make a drop in fix for this. Anyone got one?

01-03-2015, 06:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
juld0zer Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 428 Drives: 11 Nissan 370Z MB M6 Rep Power: 139	i think a wrecker might be your best bet

01-03-2015, 06:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,219 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	Do you know what it takes to drop a tank? Oh, it can be done. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-03-2015, 08:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
Robert Yuras Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 99 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 11	You're misunderstanding. I believe I can make a solution that can be dropped into the tank using the two top ports (NOT dropping the tank). I need a stock tank to fabricate it. I sincerely believe the $1000 pump is nice, but too much cash for those of us not needing any additional fuel volume (other than the obvious issue). synolimit likes this.

01-03-2015, 08:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 35,219 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684438	Not misunderstanding. You said that you wanted a tank to play with. If you get one from a junk yard. What they would do, is flip the Z on it's roof to remove the tank in most cases. It's easier. Some yards won't do that until most of the car is stripped. Just sayin'. FL 4Motion likes this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-03-2015, 08:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
Robert Yuras Base Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 99 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370Z Rep Power: 11	haha, nice. I found one in CA for $110. $66 to ship though I'm going to check insurance auto salvage here in SA TX in the coming week.

01-03-2015, 11:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
DOOMMONKEY777 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Crooklyn Posts: 1,008 Drives: 370Z 6psd-sport-pkg Rep Power: 21	Am working on fuel stare fix that will be universal and it will cost about $100, just gimme time to test it out, so that the product is ready. There will be a custom fit just for 370z and i guarantee it will pick up ur last drop, also other fuel filtering features will apply. I will reveal everything at the appropriate time. Stay tuned. zguynate and glw like this. __________________ Kids don't do Drugs, Drugs are bad, so let the professional druggies do Drugs for you. 537whp/496lb/tq@8-9PSI 93 octane

01-04-2015, 09:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
ENT-Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 460 Drives: 09 MB 6MT 370Z Rep Power: 16	Curious to see what you both come up with!

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