Where is everyone starting??

Denny McLain · 10-10-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged

I am at the track at the moment so I cant post the dyno chart but I am sure Ben the owner will post it. Our dyno is a Dyno Dynamics and a bone stock 370 puts down 250whp consistently. 50whp has been proven time and time again. I am not sure what is going on with your car. When I get in front of my laptop I will do some research for you.

I have been tuning the VQ's for 5 years and have many hundreds of tunes under my belt. There is no fluff on my part. Thanks guys and sorry if I have any typos from iPhone.

You can have all the logs and dyno sheets ya want. Made it through college by sitting next to the smart kids so any answers you can throw my way is appreciated. Admittedly a bit bummed at the overall output compared to other similar modded cars and the lack of response from tuning attempts. Even been shopping Z06's and GT-R's trying to figure out what to do.

Spent 3.5 hours yesterday a Dynoject dyno with a bud whom tunes for a living seeing if there were any improvements in the Cobb tuning software and to reestablish a new baseline before adding 4.08 gears. Made quite a few little adjustments in mods adding an under drive pulley, opening up the grill/bumper so more air gets to the Gen 3 intake, oil cooler and wrapping the Gen 3 intake tubes for less heat soak and to lower intake temps, downloading the latest version of the Cobb tuning software into the ECU. The air temp was also 55 degrees which is a radical change from normal Dallas summer heat.

The car picked up 10 hp from the mods and appeared to respond to fuel/air tuning where it didn't prior. Fuel/Air tuning picked up 3-4 more hp with the car now at 330.3 and 262.2 std for an overall gain from baseline of 48.6 rwhp or 56.9 flywheel. Remember also, the car has had the kitchen sink thrown at it regarding mods with about every bolt-on available.

We tried to play with the timing and haven't had time to study the logs to see exactly what was going on but the car lost 2hp when we added 2 degrees timing and also lost 2 hp when we pulled 2 degrees out. The overall timing from the logs picked up two degrees on it's own but the car is still pulling out midrange timing which shows as a slight dip in the midrange curve. Going to fatten the car up a little more in the lower midrange to see if that is what it likes as cars are more prone to detonate around peak torque.

In getting a bit deeper into the software I'm am noticing some abnormalities such as the MAF voltage is different from left to right indicating uneven air distribution and obviously the phantom timing issues which are probably related to tables in the ECU.

What do ya need? It's all yours.

Valentino · 10-10-2009, 10:46 AM

^ I'm going to tune my car (after i get the cobb softwear working on my PC)

Quick question. How are you tuning on the dyno? Full throttle runs? Or hold the load and tune each cell?

This is kind off going of topic .. why don't open a new topic in the tuning section.

PEACE ...

vipor · 10-10-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny McLain

How about posting a few dyno sheets where you get the 50-60 hp from intake, cats and exhaust as no one else including myself has gotten that amount.

My baseline hp was 281.7 (std) and after intake, headers, cats, exhaust, Cobb dyno tuning was..... 317.3 (std). That is a 35.6 rwhp gain and if you use a drivetrain correction factor of 17.2 % (Based upon actual dyno hp vs factory claimed hp) you get 41.7 flywheel hp. Remember, this also includes headers and correcting the fuel/air to about 12.8 to 1. So the actual gain from intake, cats, and exhaust would be a little less.

Also, what are you using for tuning? Took my car to Cobb in Plano Tx and basically got ZERO gains from the four hour tuning session on their Mustang dyno.

wtf with the 16ft/lb loss?

Sharif@Forged · 10-10-2009, 11:29 AM

Denny, without having your car on the dyno with me, I would not be able tell you exactly what to change. NA tuning is very subtle, and although we follow general guidlines, each car is very unique. One 370Z may make best power at 12.9:1 AF, and another may prefer 12.3:1 AF. This is why the canned Cobb tunes probably don't yield too much power. It's a whole different story with a car like the GT-R, in which we can push a few keystrokes, and make 50-70whp just from tuning...no mods. That said, if you have any datalogs from the dyno pulls you made, please email them to me. sharif@forgedperformance.com

Here is one of the dynos from Ben's car. Although we never had the opportunity to baseline his car, all the other 370Z's and G37's we tested are very close to 250whp on our dyno. So in this case, we are seeing roughly 40whp improvement from just HFC's and exhaust...no tuning.

Your baseline on the DJ seems very close to what others are seeing on that particular brand of dyno (280-287whp).

John@Z1 · 10-16-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomboom

What are some first things you guy are doing to add after market performance? I see headers, exhaust, oil coolers, ultra long tube intakes,stillen has a power pak deal too,,, ect...man where do I start

Seriously though what does everyone think the better items are to add for power mostly in the form of horse power..lets say you had $2000 to $3000 to spend (370z sport package)

This is what we are installing. Gen3 intake, testpipes and Stillen exhaust. The dyno runs are numbered different due to the folders of the upgrades. The first pull listed is testpipe install there was no baseline pull. Second is with the car still on the dyno and install of testpipes and Gen3 intake. The last pull is with testpipes, Gen3 and Stillen exhaust installed.

At the moment we are waiting for Uprev to finalize the 370Z software for tuning. We're eagerly awaiting the call from Rich or Jarred to tell us it's finalized.

These are the best runs for each upgrade going all the way to the rev limit.

Denny McLain · 10-24-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipor

wtf with the 16ft/lb loss?

Computer clitch.

Denny McLain · 10-24-2009, 12:51 AM

[QUOTE=Sharif@Forged;230111]Denny, without having your car on the dyno with me, I would not be able tell you exactly what to change. NA tuning is very subtle, and although we follow general guidlines, each car is very unique. One 370Z may make best power at 12.9:1 AF, and another may prefer 12.3:1 AF. This is why the canned Cobb tunes probably don't yield too much power. It's a whole different story with a car like the GT-R, in which we can push a few keystrokes, and make 50-70whp just from tuning...no mods. That said, if you have any datalogs from the dyno pulls you made, please email them to me. sharif@forgedperformance.com

QUOTE]

More than glad to share anything I have and thank you for the offer. In my experience, have also found each car has an individual personality and no.... canned tunes can be very hit or miss.

Think quite a few people may have an unrealistic expectation on what to expect from a N/A tune as your very correct, it subtle and not mind blowing by any means.

Out of town at a meeting, but will e-mail you the logs w/dyno output as the timing really has me confused. Need all the imput I can get and very much appreciated.

edeeZee · 10-24-2009, 12:59 AM

Lots of stickers i.e. sticker-whore my car out via TRD, Mugen, Mazdaspeed, SVT, HKS, Greedy, "Type R" and the likes; big "fast & furious" wing; Pep Boys intake

...just kidding, I think the most imperative would be a high quality oil cooler.

AK370Z · 10-24-2009, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

...just kidding, I think the most imperative would be a high quality oil cooler.

I apologize if I sound harsh, but don't you think it's a quite waste of money if he never track his car?

CBE
Intake
HFC
Not is any specific order but those should be around 2000 +/-

edeeZee · 10-24-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK370Z

I apologize if I sound harsh, but don't you think it's a quite waste of money if he never track his car?

CBE
Intake
HFC
Not is any specific order but those should be around 2000 +/-

It bothers me personally to see the needle go past 220. Different strokes for different folks. I know a lot say 260+ is danger mode, but in Los Angeles, REGULAR driving in 80 degree + weather can get ya there in a jiffy.

frost · 10-24-2009, 01:06 AM

Never had any issues with it getting too hot in phoenix driving (non tracking).

AK370Z · 10-24-2009, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

It bothers me personally to see the needle go past 220. Different strokes for different folks. I know a lot say 260+ is danger mode, but in Los Angeles, REGULAR driving in 80 degree + weather can get ya there in a jiffy.

I totally understand your point of view

. But since he is in Wisconsin, I assumed oil cooler should not be his first priority if he plans on daily driving the Z.

Sardis · 10-25-2009, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

Never had any issues with it getting too hot in phoenix driving (non tracking).

I hit 260 on a test drive. It was 110+ out in the hellish AZ heat, but it was a little alarming. I was driving in a somewhat aggressive matter and it did lower immediately after I backed off..

Wonder if this was something with this paticular Z, as you've made it through the summer without any issues?

10-10-2009, 11:29 AM	#34 (permalink)
Sharif@Forged The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 840 Drives: 2009 GT-R, 2010 370Z Rep Power: 18	Denny, without having your car on the dyno with me, I would not be able tell you exactly what to change. NA tuning is very subtle, and although we follow general guidlines, each car is very unique. One 370Z may make best power at 12.9:1 AF, and another may prefer 12.3:1 AF. This is why the canned Cobb tunes probably don't yield too much power. It's a whole different story with a car like the GT-R, in which we can push a few keystrokes, and make 50-70whp just from tuning...no mods. That said, if you have any datalogs from the dyno pulls you made, please email them to me. sharif@forgedperformance.com Here is one of the dynos from Ben's car. Although we never had the opportunity to baseline his car, all the other 370Z's and G37's we tested are very close to 250whp on our dyno. So in this case, we are seeing roughly 40whp improvement from just HFC's and exhaust...no tuning. Your baseline on the DJ seems very close to what others are seeing on that particular brand of dyno (280-287whp). __________________ Sharif@Forgedperformance.com General Manager/Certified Tuner/NASA-PCA-BMWCAA Instructor JRZ RS1's Available NOW...PM me Cobb ProTuner, Uprev ECU Flash, FCON Vpro, Haltech, Motec Certified

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10-10-2009, 10:46 AM	#32 (permalink)
Valentino Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: RaceTrack Posts: 349 Drives: SOLD 09,370z,M6 Rep Power: 305	^ I'm going to tune my car (after i get the cobb softwear working on my PC) Quick question. How are you tuning on the dyno? Full throttle runs? Or hold the load and tune each cell? This is kind off going of topic .. why don't open a new topic in the tuning section. PEACE ...

10-24-2009, 12:51 AM	#37 (permalink)
Denny McLain Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Double Oak Tx Posts: 255 Drives: 370Z, 96CE hotrod Rep Power: 16	[QUOTE=Sharif@Forged;230111]Denny, without having your car on the dyno with me, I would not be able tell you exactly what to change. NA tuning is very subtle, and although we follow general guidlines, each car is very unique. One 370Z may make best power at 12.9:1 AF, and another may prefer 12.3:1 AF. This is why the canned Cobb tunes probably don't yield too much power. It's a whole different story with a car like the GT-R, in which we can push a few keystrokes, and make 50-70whp just from tuning...no mods. That said, if you have any datalogs from the dyno pulls you made, please email them to me. sharif@forgedperformance.com QUOTE] More than glad to share anything I have and thank you for the offer. In my experience, have also found each car has an individual personality and no.... canned tunes can be very hit or miss. Think quite a few people may have an unrealistic expectation on what to expect from a N/A tune as your very correct, it subtle and not mind blowing by any means. Out of town at a meeting, but will e-mail you the logs w/dyno output as the timing really has me confused. Need all the imput I can get and very much appreciated.

10-24-2009, 12:59 AM	#38 (permalink)
edeeZee Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: s. cali, los angeles Posts: 627 Drives: 09 370z plat 6 speed Rep Power: 266	Lots of stickers i.e. sticker-whore my car out via TRD, Mugen, Mazdaspeed, SVT, HKS, Greedy, "Type R" and the likes; big "fast & furious" wing; Pep Boys intake ...just kidding, I think the most imperative would be a high quality oil cooler.

10-24-2009, 01:06 AM	#41 (permalink)
frost Retired admin Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Winterfell Posts: 106,613 Drives: Your Wife Crazy Rep Power: 0	Never had any issues with it getting too hot in phoenix driving (non tracking).