Can I Prevent CSC Failure

14ZTSport · 08-24-2014, 01:34 PM

A lot of recent thread have mentioned eventual CSC failure and potential master cylinder replacement on the MTs. Is this, in fact, inevitable? Or it it more a track related issue? If I'm not racing, not redlining shifts constantly, and generally respecting my vehicle, will this truly be an issue? ...and if so, what can I do to delay it as long as possible?

JARblue · 08-24-2014, 01:52 PM

Inevitable? Yes. If you put enough miles on the car, they will fail. How many miles before that happens is the real question. Based on my research on the matter, it seems that hard launching and probably poor clutch operation are the main causes of CSC failure. For every person that had theirs replaced <30K miles, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several who got 75K miles or more out of it. Of course, I don't know the actual numbers. The best you can do with the OEM is have your CSC last as long as your clutch and get both replaced at the same time.

I changed out my CSC after 50K miles as a precaution. I drive my car pretty hard but I'm not excessive with it. With less than 10 laps on a track and less than 5 hard launches over 3K RPMs in it's lifetime, I think can say I've had good success with the OEM CSC. But rather than tempt fate, I just went with one of the aftermarket solutions. My goal was to never have to worry about the CSC again.

The CMC seems to be pretty crappy, too. The two parts are about the same price, but the labor on the CMC is soooooo much easier (or cheaper if you pay someone else). I kept my old CMC and will probably buy a $20 rebuild kit to fix it up before my new one eventually fails.

14ZTSport · 08-24-2014, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Inevitable? Yes. If you put enough miles on the car, they will fail. How many miles before that happens is the real question. Based on my research on the matter, it seems that hard launching and probably poor clutch operation are the main causes of CSC failure. For every person that had theirs replaced <30K miles, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several who got 75K miles or more out of it. Of course, I don't know the actual numbers. The best you can do with the OEM is have your CSC last as long as your clutch and get both replaced at the same time.

I changed out my CSC after 50K miles as a precaution. I drive my car pretty hard but I'm not excessive with it. With less than 10 laps on a track and less than 5 hard launches over 3K RPMs in it's lifetime, I think can say I've had good success with the OEM CSC. But rather than tempt fate, I just went with one of the aftermarket solutions. My goal was to never have to worry about the CSC again.

The CMC seems to be pretty crappy, too. The two parts are about the same price, but the labor on the CMC is soooooo much easier (or cheaper if you pay someone else). I kept my old CMC and will probably buy a $20 rebuild kit to fix it up before my new one eventually fails.

Thanks!

JCarter · 08-25-2014, 04:18 AM

PMed

Spooler · 08-25-2014, 09:51 PM

The only thing you can do is a fluid exchange every 15,000 miles. Even the older cars with the external slave cylinder were hard on fluid. The problem with why the master cylinder goes is due to all of the debris (cooked fluid) ending up in the clutch fluid reservoir. When the CMC may go south is when it is pumped trying to get the clutch back after a CSC failure. If they run dry and are pumped to get the air out, bad ju ju. It is always best to replace them as a set. I have gotten away with only doing the CSC in the older cars many times. If it failed, I could usually make it home as long as I could get the sucker in gear. I wouldn't use the clutch the rest of the way home and prayed for no stops. That is when it get's tricky. I am not sure how these newer cars will react.

DEpointfive0 · 08-25-2014, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

The only thing you can do is a fluid exchange every 15,000 miles. Even the older cars with the external slave cylinder were hard on fluid. The problem with why the master cylinder goes is due to all of the debris (cooked fluid) ending up in the clutch fluid reservoir. When the CMC may go south is when it is pumped trying to get the clutch back after a CSC failure. If they run dry and are pumped to get the air out, bad ju ju. It is always best to replace them as a set. I have gotten away with only doing the CSC in the older cars many times. If it failed, I could usually make it home as long as I could get the sucker in gear. I wouldn't use the clutch the rest of the way home and prayed for no stops. That is when it get's tricky. I am not sure how these newer cars will react.

True, but IMO the worst thing that can be done, which I bet most people do because of the Z's shitty clutch feel is to hit the pedal to the floor. I bet I can make a CSC fail within 3000 miles if I continuously slammed the pedal to the floor

aszyd · 08-25-2014, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

True, but IMO the worst thing that can be done, which I bet most people do because of the Z's shitty clutch feel is to hit the pedal to the floor. I bet I can make a CSC fail within 3000 miles if I continuously slammed the pedal to the floor

Spooler · 08-25-2014, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

True, but IMO the worst thing that can be done, which I bet most people do because of the Z's shitty clutch feel is to hit the pedal to the floor. I bet I can make a CSC fail within 3000 miles if I continuously slammed the pedal to the floor

I don't go all the way to the floor either. The time I am pushing in on the clutch I am shifting out of gear and by mid ways I am in the next gear. It is fast and smooth. I don't sit at a stop light with my foot on the clutch either. I adjust my seat where I have to stretch to go all the way to the floor.

RoshDawg · 02-26-2015, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

True, but IMO the worst thing that can be done, which I bet most people do because of the Z's shitty clutch feel is to hit the pedal to the floor. I bet I can make a CSC fail within 3000 miles if I continuously slammed the pedal to the floor

Sorry for the thread revival, but I'm just now reading this and had no idea pressing the clutch to the floor in between shifts was bad for the car! I have been doing this all my life and its hard to break this habit, and is just another thing I have to think about while shifting. Has anyone put some sort of object behind the clutch pedal that will block the clutch pedal from hitting the floor board, allowing the pedal to be fully pressed while not *actually* being fully pressed? Or does the RJW clutch assembly feature an adjusting mechanism such as this?

Thinking about getting the RJW, Z1 SS clutch line and putting in some AP Racing Dot 5.1 in there to buy myself some more time. Any other easy mods that doesn't require taking apart the trans to help delay CSC failure?

hey32g · 03-03-2015, 12:38 PM

I have a question regarding this too.

Is this an issue for all model years, or has it been addressed over the years?

JARblue · 03-03-2015, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hey32g

I have a question regarding this too.

Is this an issue for all model years, or has it been addressed over the years?

Nissan hasn't done $hit about it. It was a problem in some earlier 350Z's as well until they switched to an external slave cylinder in later models. But they went back to the crappy internal design for the 370Z and haven't changed anything yet.

Davey · 08-26-2014, 05:41 AM

Yes, stomping the clutch to the floor while shifting fast will kill it in a hurry from the (many) posts I've read on this forum. There have been more than a few reports of people whose CSC went out within 10K (or even less) and I believe they were all... Enjoying the car to its fullest potential. Hopefully at the track.

Zoren 370 · 08-26-2014, 06:16 AM

Will the extended warranty covers this failure?
Im at 24k miles still no issues with my CSC
Crossing my fingers.

JARblue · 08-26-2014, 06:39 AM

If you're within the 30K miles bumper-to-bumper warranty when it fails, they should cover it no problem.

Outside of that, the CSC coverage is referred to by some as "good will" coverage. Basically meaning that if you spend a bunch of money on maintenance at the dealership, they're more likely to cover it. If you don't do maintenance at the dealer (like me), then even within the Power Train warranty they will likely deny your claim.

**edit** if you do all your maintenance at the dealer and they still deny your claim, fight tooth and nail to get them to cover it. Bitch to the dealer and corporate both until they cover it.

LAVA · 03-03-2015, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

If you're within the 30K miles bumper-to-bumper warranty when it fails, they should cover it no problem.

Outside of that, the CSC coverage is referred to by some as "good will" coverage. Basically meaning that if you spend a bunch of money on maintenance at the dealership, they're more likely to cover it. If you don't do maintenance at the dealer (like me), then even within the Power Train warranty they will likely deny your claim.

**edit** if you do all your maintenance at the dealer and they still deny your claim, fight tooth and nail to get them to cover it. Bitch to the dealer and corporate both until they cover it.

Let's say it fails under warranty, isn't Nissan just going to put the same crappy part back in?

When Nissan released the TSB about switching to the GTR clutch fluid, wasn't that supposed to be a fix or was it just a band aid?

08-24-2014, 01:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
14ZTSport Base Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 118 Drives: 14 Z M6 PW T/S Rep Power: 11	Can I Prevent CSC Failure A lot of recent thread have mentioned eventual CSC failure and potential master cylinder replacement on the MTs. Is this, in fact, inevitable? Or it it more a track related issue? If I'm not racing, not redlining shifts constantly, and generally respecting my vehicle, will this truly be an issue? ...and if so, what can I do to delay it as long as possible?

08-24-2014, 01:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 44 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684441	Inevitable? Yes. If you put enough miles on the car, they will fail. How many miles before that happens is the real question. Based on my research on the matter, it seems that hard launching and probably poor clutch operation are the main causes of CSC failure. For every person that had theirs replaced <30K miles, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several who got 75K miles or more out of it. Of course, I don't know the actual numbers. The best you can do with the OEM is have your CSC last as long as your clutch and get both replaced at the same time. I changed out my CSC after 50K miles as a precaution. I drive my car pretty hard but I'm not excessive with it. With less than 10 laps on a track and less than 5 hard launches over 3K RPMs in it's lifetime, I think can say I've had good success with the OEM CSC. But rather than tempt fate, I just went with one of the aftermarket solutions. My goal was to never have to worry about the CSC again. The CMC seems to be pretty crappy, too. The two parts are about the same price, but the labor on the CMC is soooooo much easier (or cheaper if you pay someone else). I kept my old CMC and will probably buy a $20 rebuild kit to fix it up before my new one eventually fails. Trips, Davey, DEpointfive0 and 2 others like this. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

08-26-2014, 06:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 44 Posts: 36,450 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684441	If you're within the 30K miles bumper-to-bumper warranty when it fails, they should cover it no problem. Outside of that, the CSC coverage is referred to by some as "good will" coverage. Basically meaning that if you spend a bunch of money on maintenance at the dealership, they're more likely to cover it. If you don't do maintenance at the dealer (like me), then even within the Power Train warranty they will likely deny your claim. edit if you do all your maintenance at the dealer and they still deny your claim, fight tooth and nail to get them to cover it. Bitch to the dealer and corporate both until they cover it. Zoren 370 likes this. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \| Last edited by JARblue; 08-26-2014 at 07:11 AM.

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08-25-2014, 04:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
JCarter Base Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Columbus Posts: 32 Drives: 2014 370z Sport Rep Power: 11	PMed

08-25-2014, 09:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Spooler A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ga Posts: 13,951 Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z Rep Power: 2684392	The only thing you can do is a fluid exchange every 15,000 miles. Even the older cars with the external slave cylinder were hard on fluid. The problem with why the master cylinder goes is due to all of the debris (cooked fluid) ending up in the clutch fluid reservoir. When the CMC may go south is when it is pumped trying to get the clutch back after a CSC failure. If they run dry and are pumped to get the air out, bad ju ju. It is always best to replace them as a set. I have gotten away with only doing the CSC in the older cars many times. If it failed, I could usually make it home as long as I could get the sucker in gear. I wouldn't use the clutch the rest of the way home and prayed for no stops. That is when it get's tricky. I am not sure how these newer cars will react.

03-03-2015, 12:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
hey32g Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 278 Drives: ‘14 370Z, Black, 7AT Rep Power: 6727	I have a question regarding this too. Is this an issue for all model years, or has it been addressed over the years?

08-26-2014, 05:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
Davey A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,766 Drives: '15 NISMO 6MT Rep Power: 117171	Yes, stomping the clutch to the floor while shifting fast will kill it in a hurry from the (many) posts I've read on this forum. There have been more than a few reports of people whose CSC went out within 10K (or even less) and I believe they were all... Enjoying the car to its fullest potential. Hopefully at the track.

08-26-2014, 06:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
Zoren 370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 11,018 Drives: 11 Nissan 370 M6 Rep Power: 1913654	Will the extended warranty covers this failure? Im at 24k miles still no issues with my CSC Crossing my fingers.