400 whp on N/A VQ possible?
 

I'm wondering if anyone out there can tune the VQ motor on pump gas, and without the use of crazy expensive ITB's or swapping out crankshafts to make 400 whp on the NA motor? Or is the vvel that complicated that no tuners can come close to making the power without the use of DE heads, crazy engine rebuild, or forced induction. Maybe with EcuTek and their claim to be superior to Uprev, still waiting to see that. I just want some educated guesses on what they think is possible, I know tuning the VQ motor is still very brand new and tuners have come along way.

Thank you everyone for your time.

Nope. Not without significant internal work. The record is 360ish and that's on E85.

By the time your done spending all the money to make it a 400whp NA block, you could have made this a 600whp FI block.

No. Not even close.

VVEL is not black magic.

Seems NOOBish to me? DE, HR, VHR whatever NONE of the VQ motors will come close to 400 wheel NA without doing at least a couple of those thingsand you wouldn't even come close with DE heads. If you had crazy money in it you would be lucky to break 400whp now 400bhp is very possible but not at the wheels

also the grand am cars have a little over 400 but you would vommit at the price tag

DE heads with aggressive cams can get you close, plus all the bolt-ons ofcourse.

HR heads not DE, the DE heads suck. and the cams you need aren't even listed for sale on JWT's website because you have to machine the the heads to clear the lobes and change out ALL the valvetrain parts, you will also need different pistons with larger valve reliefs to clear the massive lift, and then you will need bad *** headers and and intake (ITB's or custom) to get the airflow in and out that the cams can support and a different ECU because the factory one can't handle that much cam at idle or itb's for that matter.

Just to clarify a DE with cams that don't require valvetrain modifications and bolt ons wont even make 300whp

Sooo yes vvel is black magic because full bolt ons and cams on a de will get you 60+ hp LESS than the current highest hp NA 370 which has bolt ons and tune and makes 360wheel.

And all of that translates into a car that will suck to drive on the road

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Very interesting. @ Jm auto racing, its just something about a high revving all motor engine. Don't get me wrong boost is something magical. Thanks all for responding, guess 400 to the wheels will be upwards battle.

No.

And if it could, you'd need to build it to rev to 15K RPM...

So, if you dropped 15-20k on a NA build to just barely hit 400whp to have a high-compression motor that needed higher octane than pump gas and had a very narrow powerband so you'd actually be slower in 95% of real world driving situations than a 330whp car with more area under the curve, you'd be happy with that? If you're really serious, go read Shamu's build thread. He'll probably be around 400whp, but he's now got a 4.0 dry sump motor that won't be on pump gas.

For 400whp, go buy a Stillen kit and be happy. 400whp NA isn't an uphill battle. A 400whp NA car is a fool's project. You'll end up with an undriveable mess. For power on this platform you need boost.

A high compression built vq would be nice. Or course it would take a built bottom end, ported heads, cams but it would be badass to have a 370z that could run like the Porsche gt3

I don't think you need 15k to make 400 whp on a NA build. Now there isn't to much information out there about the JUN cams; full bolt on's that cam and a great tuner could come close to the 400 mark, don't you think? Noone out there with money to play with has even attempted to try and build the car a VQ motor to make 400 whp (NA), "MOST" everyone here in the states wants power fast so they go with F.I. Anyone have any information on the tuners in Japan or do they not like releasing that kind of information out?

With a 400 hp na build you will probably end up increasing the red line and end up increasing idling rpm which is not good for daily driving

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That's what I was afraid of hearing. the highest NA is like 340-350 on pump gas, I just believe that you can squeeze 50 more whp without sacrificing drivability. Wouldn't you agree?

just get that mad vtec yo!

What are you basing the idea that there's another 50whp in there? If you go through shamus build, he'll be close to 400whp with a 4.0 on e85. Pm him and ask costs.

Navyboy has the jun cams and built heads and is around the 315ish mark. They're not the magic bullet you think they are.

HP is torque over time.

If the engine could maintain peak torque up to, say, 10K or 12K RPM, you might very well see 400 whp, with the right valvetrain, headers, etc etc.. I just threw out 15K off the top of my head, but higher powered F1 engines rev verrrrrry high to make that power.

Of course, the oil pump on our motors seems to kerplode at a mere 8K RPM, so...

Navyboy's lower than expected reading is probably because of the tune, not necessarily the cams themselves. I'd imagine the hardest thing about trying to get to 400 HP NA is the tuning.

@ chuck someone in N.J. got 325 whp with and UpRev, exhaust , and intake. I have to agree with the statement made by Eclipz,. I'm may not be the smartest person about tuning cars, but I'm no dummy either and to back my additional 50whp somewhere in the motor, nobody has even tried without doing something crazy to the motor. I need to hit the lotto so I can test my hypothesis out.

the370z.com: that dere girl got herpes.

Elmo370z: ain't nobody fucked her so how do you know she got herpes?

the370z.com: she been to a buncha doctors and they all said she got the worst herpes of anything they ever seen.

Elmo370z: I don't believe doctors, Imma fuck her anyways...rawdog nonetheless.

From where? Not even on big american engines can you make gains of 50 whp without sacrificing some measure of drivability. It ain't happening on the Z. Not without a stroker crank, some big nasty cams, higher compression, headwork, etc...

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.


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You're right. You need twice that amount.

No.

There's a reason why.


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Back in the '60s, when fuel economy wasn't a big deal, car manufacturers were pretty sloppy and one could take a stock engine, slap a bigger carb and manifolds on it, maybe a hotter cam, and you could expect some pretty large gains. Add a basic balance/blue-print/port/polish job (not exactly a bolt-on but you don't have to buy a lot of expensive parts, either) and it was not unheard of to boost HP by 25% or more.

The days of getting big gains with bolt-ons and cheap mods are gone. The manufacturers have already picked the low-hanging fruit. :(

As others have said: if you want big gains, expect to spend big money.

I miss my chevelle.

Yes U can, with Nitrous Oxide...:stirthepot:

lmao falcon. China problem has a bill to cure the herpes.

Kinsler
 

Wonder if these guys might be able to help develop an IM etc. they have lots off stuff for the honda guys as well as domestics.

Kinsler.com.

@Jcosta. I seriously don't think you need 30K to build a 400whp Na Z. Tsm is making good progress with the NA build and maybe they will be the first to do it. Tsm made 340 to the wheels on 93 octane. and 350 with e85. So your telling me there is no way they can pull an extra 50-60 whp horsepower with spending some crazy amount of cash? still no one knows, maybe the best Japanese tuners what the full potential of the VQ.

With all the drama with TSM dyno posting I retract my previous statement.

hahahahahahaha

E85, a somewhat generous correction factor... it's definitely making some serious power relative to any other N/A builds that I am aware of, but hitting 400 even with cold weather and a generous CF, ehhh... I wouldn't hold your breath.

On that note, has anyone put higher CR pistons in one of these blocks and run 100+ AKI? Dry sump or stouter oil pump to handle higher revs?

That would make for a high-strung engine, but it would put down some decent power before it kerploded :icon17:

JWT engines used in the CTSCC should go close

There is canuck shop with a high comp full na hr head 3.7 block that is over 400 using jwt c13's? full headers and itb's

Edit:its the same guy megan370 talks about, I just forget the name of the shop

Sasha Anis

350z : OnPoint Dyno

More Engine Development – 414whp with Kels *Video* : OnPoint Dyno

This is what is required to get 414rwHP .... anyone who thinks they will get 400 with bog-stock VQ37VHR engine is relying upon an over optimistic dyno to give them the number IMHO.

I Saw that video. That Z is badass. Until more research on tuning the VVel, you can't say people are over optimistic, it is those who think outside the box that come up with the some of greatest ideas. I just want to know how far can the vvel motor can be pushed before BOOM! I think it is close to 400whp. Sure you can go through the hassle and put HR heads, an aggressive cam, itb's and spend countless hours in unchartered territory and make 400whp not knocking Kels video I'd take that Z any day. Bone stock Z all the bolt ons,Porting intakes, up-grade fuel and oil systems, Exhaust cam, and a engine management. Spend countless weeks or months trying every possible tune you can think of and input of other tuners around. I'm pretty sure the new VQ motor can reach or come close to making that magicial mark. 20 years ago people laughed at 4cyl cars at the track, and let alone that motor ever! being capable of running low 6's in the 1320. It just takes time my friend.

Another internet optimist ..........

Power is torque times revs .... the NA VQ can make serious power at high revs, but the OEM bottome end fasterners will not cut the mustard with big revs (eg: >7500) nor will the OEM oil pump.

So, to get more power at 7500 Vmax engine speed you need more lift and greater duration. VVEL might give you 12mm - 13mm at best and that implies you tighten the piston to valve clearances beyond safety.

If this is purely a theortical exercise and engine logevity is simpy not a consideration, the get your tuner to plug max lift into the VVEL, ognore safety margins and rev the engine to 9000 rpm

You;ll get ~400whp. The engine will die shrtly thereafter as a consequence of:
1. Damage from oil-pump failure
2. Damage from piston to valve interference clearance issues becuase the OEM valve springs cannot sustain the rev or because exceeding the VVEL max lift eliminated valve clearance
3. Rod bolts let go

So yes, in theory, you might get 400wHp for long enough to register on the (Optimistic) dyno - but you;ll kill the engine.

Any other option calls for the engine to be opened up and the relevant parts replaced to help the engine live at the rpm required to let it live for more than a few second (or minutes) ....

It's not that I am not a believer, but that I am realist - I have funded the build of dozens of race engines and funded the research that delivers reliable race horsepower, so my comments are based on hard-earned knowledge.

You need good airflow and compression (or boost) to make good torque and you need rev's to make horsepower. The limits in the OEM VQ preclude 450-470 Hp at the crank which is what you need to 400rwHp.

If you still believe in the tooth fairy or a magic pudding - be my guest, but I'm done here.

Dude, there is no way in hell you will ever see 400whp out of a stock motor on pump gas. Period. Not happening. Ever. VVEL isn't magic. People are tuning it right now. Either explain what information (not opinions) you have that leads you to believe that the motor can produce ~450chp or start planning a build that can actually happen.

Look at it this way- you're not the first person to have this idea. No one has succeeded. Either throw 15k+ at a motor build to maybe get 400whp or do something proven to work and go FI.

@ BGTV8 thanks for the insight. That was the information I was looking for, not everyone telling throw 15K and do F.I. and you can never achieve that power etc..... Thank you. @ Chuck33079 guess I'll just have to throw that money into the motor, I just love the sound of an all motor engine making decent power.