400 whp on N/A VQ possible?

Chuck33079 · 01-20-2015, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

The Mustangs do make good power but also have an extra 1.3L of displacement. That displacement goes a long way. The 4.5L stroker in N/A form easily breaks 4xxwhp...

You can do the following and should easily break 400rwhp:

4.0L stroker kit $3-5k
Bare short block (reuse your own)
Jun 282 cams (not sure on price $800?)
Built heads $2-3k
Custom intake manifold $2-3k
Stillen G3 intake $450
Z1headers $800
Test pipes $300
3" exhaust $1200
Lightened flywheel/clutch combo $1000
Fuel system to support the power $1000

Total cost $15k-$20k with labor

Does the 4.0 kit keep the stock cylinder bores, or does it need to be sleeved? The 4.5 needed to be sleeved, right? Isn't that where a lot of the cooling issues popped up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

They were stock specs... I believe that is what he was trying to get across. It was only for reliability sake... He did not get any performance benefit except for reliability.

Ah, that's not how I read it at all, and I must have missed the parts on the build list. I'll take your word for it since you've actually seen the car.

bullitt5897 · 01-20-2015, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Does the 4.0 kit keep the stock cylinder bores, or does it need to be sleeved? The 4.5 needed to be sleeved, right? Isn't that where a lot of the cooling issues popped up?

Ah, that's not how I read it at all, and I must have missed the parts on the build list. I'll take your word for it since you've actually seen the car.

Yes the 4.0L keeps the stock bore. There is an option to over bore if you so desire but it is not needed.

The 4.5L is sleeved and yes significant cooling requirements were needed to be put in place. The 4.5L generates a lot of heat! I have somewhere around 3 oil coolers lol and a giant 3" thick racing radiator with larger Spal fans.

Yeah I talk to 1slow370 every other day lol and yeah we discuss his build quite often.

Elmo370z · 01-21-2015, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

The Mustangs do make good power but also have an extra 1.3L of displacement. That displacement goes a long way. The 4.5L stroker in N/A form easily breaks 4xxwhp...

You can do the following and should easily break 400rwhp:

4.0L stroker kit $3-5k
Bare short block (reuse your own)
Jun 282 cams (not sure on price $800?)
Built heads $2-3k
Custom intake manifold $2-3k
Stillen G3 intake $450
Z1headers $800
Test pipes $300
3" exhaust $1200
Lightened flywheel/clutch combo $1000
Fuel system to support the power $1000

Total cost $15k-$20k with labor

Note: you can run dry sump and gain a significant amount of HP but you will be paying north of $12k for it...

If you run a custom intake manifold, why not do twin 70mm throttle bodies of 09+ maxima and custom intakes.

BGTV8 · 01-22-2015, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

This is not an accurate statement. Yes you can make 400 whp and yes you can run "big" cams 282's from Jun is what 1slow370z ran. No you do not have to delete VVEL. Yes you can work on the heads by upgrading the exhaust cam, port and polish, you can go 1mm over on valves and also upgrade the valves... All while keeping VVEL on an NA car. I was with 1slow370 the night he put his car on the dyno untuned... It put down consistent 354rwhp untuned! With e-85 they were able to get into 375rwhp. This was stock displacement with forged internals. If you want 400rwhp get a 4L stroker kit and go down the same path as 1slow370. Also use the z1 headers as people are making 342rwhp with just intake, intake plenum mod, headers and exhaust.

Most people will say no it's not possible... Well they haven't tried. Also, VVEL is not a weak point in this motor! It's just different and requires working with the system to make power. Put it this way we have 1000rwhp 370z with VVEL on my 4.5L and I have built heads.

I have no doubt that you can continue with VVEL, just not on a race engine that uses a cam with more lift than the JUN.

I should perhaps preface all my comments with the fact that I am coming for a race mind-set and based on my own project specifications.

I have raced sports cars in Australia since the late 60's, and I have had a fair bit to do in recent years with GT racing.

My opinions (and to be clear - I have not yet built a VQ race engine but will have one during the course of this year) are formed after conversations with Jackson Stewart at Unitech Racing, Clark Steppler at JWT (who builds all the Grand Am Z34 engines), as well as the engine builder for the Nissan Z34 GT4 FIA Endurance series as well as the Z33 GT3 in the FIA Blancpain series and they all said that the VVEL was a complication best avoided for motorsport, so yes, you are correct, you do not need to delete VVEL for road or occasional track use.

However, if you are going to race the car, then VVEL delete is a clear decision to be made on reliability grounds. In my case, my Z34 is destined for Targa rallies and state level sports car championships and VVEL delete for me is an easy decision, but that is from my personal perspective.

The other point is that my selected cam will have 13.8mm of lift and more duration than the JUN kit, another reason not to use VVEL.

I will be more explicit in future posts.

Boss_302 · 01-22-2015, 10:05 AM

The Z-1 shorty's and test pipes don't make sense after spending all that money,
Full length tuned headers are the only way to go.

bullitt5897 · 01-22-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

I have no doubt that you can continue with VVEL, just not on a race engine that uses a cam with more lift than the JUN.

I should perhaps preface all my comments with the fact that I am coming for a race mind-set and based on my own project specifications.

I have raced sports cars in Australia since the late 60's, and I have had a fair bit to do in recent years with GT racing.

My opinions (and to be clear - I have not yet built a VQ race engine but will have one during the course of this year) are formed after conversations with Jackson Stewart at Unitech Racing, Clark Steppler at JWT (who builds all the Grand Am Z34 engines), as well as the engine builder for the Nissan Z34 GT4 FIA Endurance series as well as the Z33 GT3 in the FIA Blancpain series and they all said that the VVEL was a complication best avoided for motorsport, so yes, you are correct, you do not need to delete VVEL for road or occasional track use.

However, if you are going to race the car, then VVEL delete is a clear decision to be made on reliability grounds. In my case, my Z34 is destined for Targa rallies and state level sports car championships and VVEL delete for me is an easy decision, but that is from my personal perspective.

The other point is that my selected cam will have 13.8mm of lift and more duration than the JUN kit, another reason not to use VVEL.

I will be more explicit in future posts.

With that preface you are absolutely correct!

bullitt5897 · 01-22-2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss_302

The Z-1 shorty's and test pipes don't make sense after spending all that money,
Full length tuned headers are the only way to go.

From what I have seen on Z1's dyno the Z1 headers make more peak power than the FI Longtube headers...

Elmo370z · 01-22-2015, 07:26 PM

But from what i read doesnt z1 dyno read 20-30% higher?

DR_ · 01-23-2015, 11:15 AM

Anyone mess with the Magic Screw?

SS_Firehawk · 01-28-2015, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

From what I have seen on Z1's dyno the Z1 headers make more peak power than the FI Longtube headers...

Nissan 370Z Long Tube, Equal Length Race Headers

carlitos_370z · 01-28-2015, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Nissan 370Z Long Tube, Equal Length Race Headers

12nismo · 01-28-2015, 08:52 AM

Just to weigh in on the header discussion, I'm running the F.I. LTH's and I make 345whp on a dynojet...so same or more than the z1 shorties. I also make alot more in the mid-range than friends that have dynoed on the same dyno with the Z1 shorties.

RBfastback · 01-28-2015, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12nismo

Just to weigh in on the header discussion, I'm running the F.I. LTH's and I make 345whp on a dynojet...so same or more than the z1 shorties. I also make alot more in the mid-range than friends that have dynoed on the same dyno with the Z1 shorties.

wow I wish I was getting those numbers.
is that SAE, STD or uncorrected dyno? and what is ur full exhaust and any other stuff that affect power aside from ur tune?

12nismo · 01-28-2015, 11:33 AM

Uncorrected. From my understanding, STD will correct to 60 degrees and 0% humidity. My dyno conditions were 67 degrees with 25% humidity, so I would think my numbers would be alittle higher if coverted to STD. I'm running Stillen G3's, F.I. CBE w/ 18" res, F.I. LTH's, Z1 intake mani, NST pullies, and UpRev tune.

Zoren 370 · 01-28-2015, 11:39 AM

12nismo was there a significant difference with the motordyne manifold vs the Z1 manifold?

01-22-2015, 10:05 AM	#110 (permalink)
Boss_302 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: NY NY Posts: 150 Drives: 11 Nissan 370z S Mt Rep Power: 12	The Z-1 shorty's and test pipes don't make sense after spending all that money, Full length tuned headers are the only way to go. Last edited by Boss_302; 01-22-2015 at 10:08 AM. Reason: missed a word

01-23-2015, 11:15 AM	#114 (permalink)
DR_ Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 981 Drives: Touring/Sport M6 PG Rep Power: 17	Anyone mess with the Magic Screw? Last edited by DR_; 01-23-2015 at 11:17 AM.

01-28-2015, 08:52 AM	#117 (permalink)
12nismo Base Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 153 Drives: 2012 370z nismo Rep Power: 15	Just to weigh in on the header discussion, I'm running the F.I. LTH's and I make 345whp on a dynojet...so same or more than the z1 shorties. I also make alot more in the mid-range than friends that have dynoed on the same dyno with the Z1 shorties. Elmo370z and carlitos_370z like this. __________________ nismo Z34 12 0209 JTran Motorsports//Stillen//Fast Intentions//EcuTek//Z1 Motorsports//Eibach//BRIDE //Zspeed//Carbon Signal//Houston Halos//Southbend//Whiteline//TWM//NonStopTuning//Doran Racing

01-28-2015, 11:33 AM	#119 (permalink)
12nismo Base Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 153 Drives: 2012 370z nismo Rep Power: 15	Uncorrected. From my understanding, STD will correct to 60 degrees and 0% humidity. My dyno conditions were 67 degrees with 25% humidity, so I would think my numbers would be alittle higher if coverted to STD. I'm running Stillen G3's, F.I. CBE w/ 18" res, F.I. LTH's, Z1 intake mani, NST pullies, and UpRev tune. __________________ nismo Z34 12 0209 JTran Motorsports//Stillen//Fast Intentions//EcuTek//Z1 Motorsports//Eibach//BRIDE //Zspeed//Carbon Signal//Houston Halos//Southbend//Whiteline//TWM//NonStopTuning//Doran Racing

01-22-2015, 07:26 PM	#113 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,709 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	But from what i read doesnt z1 dyno read 20-30% higher?

01-28-2015, 11:39 AM	#120 (permalink)
Zoren 370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 11,018 Drives: 11 Nissan 370 M6 Rep Power: 1913653	12nismo was there a significant difference with the motordyne manifold vs the Z1 manifold?