400 whp on N/A VQ possible?

Elmo370z · 12-06-2014, 12:07 AM

I gotcha. You should start a website to see if people will pay to see how the VQ can be pushed with the correct mods. Create a great story and maybe sponsor will come your way.

Elmo370z · 12-06-2014, 12:07 AM

how far*

BGTV8 · 12-06-2014, 02:41 AM

Talk to the engine builder for Doran Nissan (Clark Steppler) who run the 370Z in Grand Am, or Sasha Anis in Canada.

With good rod bolts, JWT cams and JWT valve train, Sasha's VQ35HR with 370Z crank made 414hp atw which has to be 480 @ the crank see Kels takes Mosport with fastest practice, pole and race win.. then we broke her. : OnPoint Dyno

See also here: http://www.onpointdyno.com/?p=3324

Sasha has already done most of the development work including overall induction/exhaust lengths, trumpet sizes, airbox capacity and a bunch of other stuff.

What this demonstrates is that nothing is simple, it is all interconnected and what you need to do is test, test and test again.

This has already been done, no need for more test pilots .. just use the lessons already learned ...

Jordo! · 12-06-2014, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

Talk to the engine builder for Doran Nissan (Clark Steppler) who run the 370Z in Grand Am, or Sasha Anis in Canada.

With good rod bolts, JWT cams and JWT valve train, Sasha's VQ35HR with 370Z crank made 414hp atw which has to be 480 @ the crank see Kels takes Mosport with fastest practice, pole and race win.. then we broke her. : OnPoint Dyno

See also here: More Engine Development – 414whp with Kels *Video* : OnPoint Dyno

Sasha has already done most of the development work including overall induction/exhaust lengths, trumpet sizes, airbox capacity and a bunch of other stuff.

What this demonstrates is that nothing is simple, it is all interconnected and what you need to do is test, test and test again.

This has already been done, no need for more test pilots .. just use the lessons already learned ...

I wasn't surprised to see the shorter trumpets made a bit more peak, but what (if anything) was ever found regarding overall intake + exhaust length?

Did you guys just end up running open ITB's with foam filters and no airbox? I see the hood had some ducts cut into it.

Elmo370z · 12-11-2014, 10:41 PM

1slow370z made 360whp on pump gas. And 371 with e-85. Would one say the vvel heads have an advantage over the hr heads?

BGTV8 · 12-12-2014, 12:08 AM

No, because if you want to run "big" cams, you have to ditch the VVEL.

VVEL "is not" motorsport quality technology (jury is out on reliability) and the potential for VVEL actuator failure in hi-rev and hi-vibration environment is just not worth the risk.

Only Nissan understands the relationship between piston position and valve clearance and reverse engineering it will be a b1tch.

Ergo, if you want 400+ the only reliable way will be with HR heads.

I have not doubt you can make 400+ with VVEL, but you might lose 2 or 3 engines getting the level of knowledge, UNLESS you can get access to the OEM Nissan model for valve timing and lift vs position of the piston in the bore. then you need to be able to play with cam timing - it is just too hard !

It is not an investment I would make

bullitt5897 · 01-20-2015, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

No, because if you want to run "big" cams, you have to ditch the VVEL.

VVEL "is not" motorsport quality technology (jury is out on reliability) and the potential for VVEL actuator failure in hi-rev and hi-vibration environment is just not worth the risk.

Only Nissan understands the relationship between piston position and valve clearance and reverse engineering it will be a b1tch.

Ergo, if you want 400+ the only reliable way will be with HR heads.

I have not doubt you can make 400+ with VVEL, but you might lose 2 or 3 engines getting the level of knowledge, UNLESS you can get access to the OEM Nissan model for valve timing and lift vs position of the piston in the bore. then you need to be able to play with cam timing - it is just too hard !

It is not an investment I would make

This is not an accurate statement. Yes you can make 400 whp and yes you can run "big" cams 282's from Jun is what 1slow370z ran. No you do not have to delete VVEL. Yes you can work on the heads by upgrading the exhaust cam, port and polish, you can go 1mm over on valves and also upgrade the valves... All while keeping VVEL on an NA car. I was with 1slow370 the night he put his car on the dyno untuned... It put down consistent 354rwhp untuned! With e-85 they were able to get into 375rwhp. This was stock displacement with forged internals. If you want 400rwhp get a 4L stroker kit and go down the same path as 1slow370. Also use the z1 headers as people are making 342rwhp with just intake, intake plenum mod, headers and exhaust.

Most people will say no it's not possible... Well they haven't tried. Also, VVEL is not a weak point in this motor! It's just different and requires working with the system to make power. Put it this way we have 1000rwhp 370z with VVEL on my 4.5L and I have built heads.

BGTV8 · 01-21-2015, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

This is not an accurate statement. Yes you can make 400 whp and yes you can run "big" cams 282's from Jun is what 1slow370z ran. No you do not have to delete VVEL. Yes you can work on the heads by upgrading the exhaust cam, port and polish, you can go 1mm over on valves and also upgrade the valves... All while keeping VVEL on an NA car. I was with 1slow370 the night he put his car on the dyno untuned... It put down consistent 354rwhp untuned! With e-85 they were able to get into 375rwhp. This was stock displacement with forged internals. If you want 400rwhp get a 4L stroker kit and go down the same path as 1slow370. Also use the z1 headers as people are making 342rwhp with just intake, intake plenum mod, headers and exhaust.

Most people will say no it's not possible... Well they haven't tried. Also, VVEL is not a weak point in this motor! It's just different and requires working with the system to make power. Put it this way we have 1000rwhp 370z with VVEL on my 4.5L and I have built heads.

I have no doubt that you can continue with VVEL, just not on a race engine that uses a cam with more lift than the JUN.

I should perhaps preface all my comments with the fact that I am coming for a race mind-set and based on my own project specifications.

I have raced sports cars in Australia since the late 60's, and I have had a fair bit to do in recent years with GT racing.

My opinions (and to be clear - I have not yet built a VQ race engine but will have one during the course of this year) are formed after conversations with Jackson Stewart at Unitech Racing, Clark Steppler at JWT (who builds all the Grand Am Z34 engines), as well as the engine builder for the Nissan Z34 GT4 FIA Endurance series as well as the Z33 GT3 in the FIA Blancpain series and they all said that the VVEL was a complication best avoided for motorsport, so yes, you are correct, you do not need to delete VVEL for road or occasional track use.

However, if you are going to race the car, then VVEL delete is a clear decision to be made on reliability grounds. In my case, my Z34 is destined for Targa rallies and state level sports car championships and VVEL delete for me is an easy decision, but that is from my personal perspective.

The other point is that my selected cam will have 13.8mm of lift and more duration than the JUN kit, another reason not to use VVEL.

I will be more explicit in future posts.

bullitt5897 · 01-22-2015, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGTV8

I have no doubt that you can continue with VVEL, just not on a race engine that uses a cam with more lift than the JUN.

I should perhaps preface all my comments with the fact that I am coming for a race mind-set and based on my own project specifications.

I have raced sports cars in Australia since the late 60's, and I have had a fair bit to do in recent years with GT racing.

My opinions (and to be clear - I have not yet built a VQ race engine but will have one during the course of this year) are formed after conversations with Jackson Stewart at Unitech Racing, Clark Steppler at JWT (who builds all the Grand Am Z34 engines), as well as the engine builder for the Nissan Z34 GT4 FIA Endurance series as well as the Z33 GT3 in the FIA Blancpain series and they all said that the VVEL was a complication best avoided for motorsport, so yes, you are correct, you do not need to delete VVEL for road or occasional track use.

However, if you are going to race the car, then VVEL delete is a clear decision to be made on reliability grounds. In my case, my Z34 is destined for Targa rallies and state level sports car championships and VVEL delete for me is an easy decision, but that is from my personal perspective.

The other point is that my selected cam will have 13.8mm of lift and more duration than the JUN kit, another reason not to use VVEL.

I will be more explicit in future posts.

With that preface you are absolutely correct!

Elmo370z · 12-12-2014, 11:05 PM

I gotcha. Damn, Hr conversion is a B*tch to convert?

djtranz · 01-19-2015, 11:34 PM

Hi guys I'm new here. I just got a 2014 Nismo. My first foreign car ever. I have always built mustangs just recently got rid of a 700 hp fully forged and stroked Saleen. I never built a Japanese engine. Your saying that my Nismo has 350 hp. You are saying its gonna be hard to post 400 at the wheels? I did that with a few mods on my Stang with bolt ons. Hit 700 with a supercharger. What type engine do I have. Is it forged, what's the Max I can get out of this engine before going forged. The car is too new to dump 20k in it. I'm looking for your basic mods. Intake , exhaust, throttle body, intake manifold, headers, fuel injectors, or I'm still thinking Mustangs? Any help wil do.

synolimit · 01-20-2015, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtranz

Hi guys I'm new here. I just got a 2014 Nismo. My first foreign car ever. I have always built mustangs just recently got rid of a 700 hp fully forged and stroked Saleen. I never built a Japanese engine. Your saying that my Nismo has 350 hp. You are saying its gonna be hard to post 400 at the wheels? I did that with a few mods on my Stang with bolt ons. Hit 700 with a supercharger. What type engine do I have. Is it forged, what's the Max I can get out of this engine before going forged. The car is too new to dump 20k in it. I'm looking for your basic mods. Intake , exhaust, throttle body, intake manifold, headers, fuel injectors, or I'm still thinking Mustangs? Any help wil do.

You have 350 crank. You have 280 wheel!! Gaining 120 wheel is very hard and expensive NA!! With all those mods expect around 320 wheel on pump and 330 with e85 (only reason to get injectors is going e85). If you want 400+ wheel you better drop a SC or turbo in.

PS, hit me up for throttle bodies and manifolds (yes we have 2 of them).

NoLaKrewe · 01-20-2015, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtranz

Hi guys I'm new here. I just got a 2014 Nismo. My first foreign car ever. I have always built mustangs just recently got rid of a 700 hp fully forged and stroked Saleen. I never built a Japanese engine. Your saying that my Nismo has 350 hp. You are saying its gonna be hard to post 400 at the wheels? I did that with a few mods on my Stang with bolt ons. Hit 700 with a supercharger. What type engine do I have. Is it forged, what's the Max I can get out of this engine before going forged. The car is too new to dump 20k in it. I'm looking for your basic mods. Intake , exhaust, throttle body, intake manifold, headers, fuel injectors, or I'm still thinking Mustangs? Any help wil do.

This no ford

Elmo370z · 01-20-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtranz

Hi guys I'm new here. I just got a 2014 Nismo. My first foreign car ever. I have always built mustangs just recently got rid of a 700 hp fully forged and stroked Saleen. I never built a Japanese engine. Your saying that my Nismo has 350 hp. You are saying its gonna be hard to post 400 at the wheels? I did that with a few mods on my Stang with bolt ons. Hit 700 with a supercharger. What type engine do I have. Is it forged, what's the Max I can get out of this engine before going forged. The car is too new to dump 20k in it. I'm looking for your basic mods. Intake , exhaust, throttle body, intake manifold, headers, fuel injectors, or I'm still thinking Mustangs? Any help wil do.

World Record NA VHR Build

bullitt5897 · 01-20-2015, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtranz

Hi guys I'm new here. I just got a 2014 Nismo. My first foreign car ever. I have always built mustangs just recently got rid of a 700 hp fully forged and stroked Saleen. I never built a Japanese engine. Your saying that my Nismo has 350 hp. You are saying its gonna be hard to post 400 at the wheels? I did that with a few mods on my Stang with bolt ons. Hit 700 with a supercharger. What type engine do I have. Is it forged, what's the Max I can get out of this engine before going forged. The car is too new to dump 20k in it. I'm looking for your basic mods. Intake , exhaust, throttle body, intake manifold, headers, fuel injectors, or I'm still thinking Mustangs? Any help wil do.

The Mustangs do make good power but also have an extra 1.3L of displacement. That displacement goes a long way. The 4.5L stroker in N/A form easily breaks 4xxwhp...

You can do the following and should easily break 400rwhp:

4.0L stroker kit $3-5k
Bare short block (reuse your own)
Jun 282 cams (not sure on price $800?)
Built heads $2-3k
Custom intake manifold $2-3k
Stillen G3 intake $450
Z1headers $800
Test pipes $300
3" exhaust $1200
Lightened flywheel/clutch combo $1000
Fuel system to support the power $1000

Total cost $15k-$20k with labor

Note: you can run dry sump and gain a significant amount of HP but you will be paying north of $12k for it...

12-06-2014, 02:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,515 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 39974	Talk to the engine builder for Doran Nissan (Clark Steppler) who run the 370Z in Grand Am, or Sasha Anis in Canada. With good rod bolts, JWT cams and JWT valve train, Sasha's VQ35HR with 370Z crank made 414hp atw which has to be 480 @ the crank see Kels takes Mosport with fastest practice, pole and race win.. then we broke her. : OnPoint Dyno See also here: http://www.onpointdyno.com/?p=3324 Sasha has already done most of the development work including overall induction/exhaust lengths, trumpet sizes, airbox capacity and a bunch of other stuff. What this demonstrates is that nothing is simple, it is all interconnected and what you need to do is test, test and test again. This has already been done, no need for more test pilots .. just use the lessons already learned ... Jordo! likes this. Last edited by BGTV8; 12-06-2014 at 02:47 AM.

12-12-2014, 12:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,515 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 39974	No, because if you want to run "big" cams, you have to ditch the VVEL. VVEL "is not" motorsport quality technology (jury is out on reliability) and the potential for VVEL actuator failure in hi-rev and hi-vibration environment is just not worth the risk. Only Nissan understands the relationship between piston position and valve clearance and reverse engineering it will be a b1tch. Ergo, if you want 400+ the only reliable way will be with HR heads. I have not doubt you can make 400+ with VVEL, but you might lose 2 or 3 engines getting the level of knowledge, UNLESS you can get access to the OEM Nissan model for valve timing and lift vs position of the piston in the bore. then you need to be able to play with cam timing - it is just too hard ! It is not an investment I would make Streetlife likes this.

12-06-2014, 12:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,724 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	I gotcha. You should start a website to see if people will pay to see how the VQ can be pushed with the correct mods. Create a great story and maybe sponsor will come your way.

12-06-2014, 12:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,724 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	how far*

12-11-2014, 10:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,724 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	1slow370z made 360whp on pump gas. And 371 with e-85. Would one say the vvel heads have an advantage over the hr heads?

12-12-2014, 11:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,724 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	I gotcha. Damn, Hr conversion is a B*tch to convert?

01-19-2015, 11:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
djtranz Base Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Davenport Florida Posts: 15 Drives: 2014 Nizmo 370Z Blac Rep Power: 12	Hi guys I'm new here. I just got a 2014 Nismo. My first foreign car ever. I have always built mustangs just recently got rid of a 700 hp fully forged and stroked Saleen. I never built a Japanese engine. Your saying that my Nismo has 350 hp. You are saying its gonna be hard to post 400 at the wheels? I did that with a few mods on my Stang with bolt ons. Hit 700 with a supercharger. What type engine do I have. Is it forged, what's the Max I can get out of this engine before going forged. The car is too new to dump 20k in it. I'm looking for your basic mods. Intake , exhaust, throttle body, intake manifold, headers, fuel injectors, or I'm still thinking Mustangs? Any help wil do.