Yeah, getting parts from GTM was spotty at best even before the whole MHI clusterfuck. There are people who claim that things are different and GTM will make a comeback, but anyone who thinks they will get anything from Sam but excuses and sob stories is a complete retard.

Yeah, but i want to road race my car, going TT will cost me alot more than 20 grand to make the cat reliable. Plus i just love all motor cars, so i don't mind putting the money into it.

You seem to be operating under the impression a 400whp NA build will be reliable. It won't be. It's getting wrung out within an inch of it's life. Especially for a track build. You're doing it for the love of an NA car ONLY. A properly set up 400whp FI car will be a much more reliable vehicle than a NA build.

How did you come up with the 400whp number as a goal? Have you ever had a vehicle with that much power before? Are you willing to give up a lot of driveability to get there?

It's going to cost you more than 20k to get 400whp NA car and even then it likely won't be reliable.

For anything over 350 on this platform you need FI or a motor swap.

This will be my first 400 whp car. Far as reliability guess when i get the car built and take it out to the track ill let you all know how to it holds up. Properly tune any vehicle and it will hold up, staying NA has lot lots parts to go wrong. 400whp is my goal for this car. Dry sump set up is going to be one of the most expensive parts of the build. Plus i don't really drive the car that much, i have another DD.

Right now maybe ,maybe not. I'm not in a rush. People are making parts for the NA crowd, ill just have to be patient with the build ands source out everything before i pull the trigger. Im already talking to a couple companies now about getting parts.

i still don't get why you are willing to spend so much money for 400whp. when with that much money you could have 600whp. i know you want 400whp, but you could just turn the boost down and have your 400whp. to me it makes no sense to spend 15-20k for 400whp when you can have 600whp.

that would be like buying one chicken wing at $10 or buying the whole chicken at $10.

idk i guess i'm just weird lol

You're not the weird one. It's absolutely ***-backwards. I'm guessing the OP has never had a turbo car, and he's also never driven something like he's thinking of building. This smells like one of those projects that either
A. Never get completed
B. Get completed and never come close to making the planned power
C. Get completed at a far greater cost than the next best option, and is so peaky, unreliable, can't run on pump gas and doesn't perform at the level the builder would want, so the car gets sold.

A 400whp TT setup on the stock block will be a far more reliable vehicle than a 400whp NA car. That 400whp NA car is going to have very little area under the curve and you'll have to wring it out to get anywhere. At the same time that 400whp turbo car has a lot more headroom for growth.

OP, good luck but the deck is absolutely stacked against you. You're going to be out there on a limb so far that very few people will be able to offer insight, all the parts you need will be one-offs and priced accordingly, and it seems like some of the questions you're asking show a lack of experience that will be an absolute stumbling block in a project like this.

For example, thinking a NA motor revved way above the stock redline is somehow more reliable than a boosted setup. Sure, One guy somewhere did it and it lived long enough for him to sell the car a few weeks later. That's what you're using as your test case. RPM will kill a motor a hell of a lot faster than boost.

Just waiting on n parts, i like na motors. You all can bash me and this project all you want, i really don't care about your negative comments. It will get done. Might tale longer than expected but im willing to wait.

Thats why i ask questions and don't just stay buying parts like a rookie. I'll ask a million question just to get it right.

A.

It's not negativity, it's reality. What you're trying to do has not been done by anyone here. The closest person to doing it was still 25whp away from your goal and punted. That doesn't mean it cannot be done, it just means that it is either not worth the tradeoffs to the few people who would otherwise do it, or the cost/hp curve is so out of whack they go to other plans. The people you need to be asking questions of are the people who build race motors, not the peanut gallery on a forum. Someone here posted the contact details of someone who can build you what you want. Why not go and ask them how feasible the project is? The last thing you want is to be past the point of no return and find out what you're trying to do is not possible without a lot more cash.

It's completely ok to do something just because no one else has. Just don't con yourself into thinking it will be more reliable, cheaper, easier or faster than the equivalent FI setup. You're just doing it because no one else has.

Man does this sound familiar...

I've had a boosted car.in looking for wet sump solutions to rev to 8k-8200 cjm had billet oul pump gears and steel backing plate up for group buy, but only 2 other people including myself were interested. Cjm is also building a manifold that I'm still waiting on. Chuck don't make assumptions, makes you look bad. I'm just here to find helpful information, not 2000 reasons to go TT.

Dude, how about this. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I will buy you a case of beer if/when you show up with a Dynojet dyno sheet for a 400whp NA Z. Your call on brand. Not domestic piss light beer, either. Quality beer.

That car is still running, he sold the car because he needed money not because his car was going to crap out

Now we are talking. I'll hold you to that i never forget,. I'll hold you to the same bet if i ever back out.

Sounds like a plan. :tup:

Im saying this build is better than any other build.

Elmo, you started out with:

So, unfortunately, no, it can't be done without an enormous amount of custom work and tuning it seems :(

I like ambitious projects, but my recommendation is to take on a different one: Figure out how to get a roots or twinscrew blower on this motor.

Same heads, same headers, same cams. You'd probably need a bigger fuel pump and injectors, and a tune. Oh, and a blower sized for a V6.

You'd need to figure out how mate the SC to the IM (fab work... I'd probably find a used M370 IM and experiment with chopping it up), some plumbing for a A2W IC and HE, and probably cut a hole in the hood, but it would give you V8 like toque and response right off of idle, and best of all, it would feel like a more powerful N/A car.

It would be awesome for a DD or road course car and no one else has done it yet. It would almost certainly be no more expensive or more difficult to fit than any of the custom N/A projects that have been undertaken, and it would have enormous potential above and beyond a high-strung N/A build.

I remember what i quoted, im not doing a m370 manifold, im waiting on CJM manifold and then start building from there. Ill be tuning with ecu tek. I was really hoping CJM BILLET gears would of sold. I need another way to rev. The motor. We will have to wait and see, i dont w t to lose my bet with chuck

I have an intake, test pipes, catback, and uprev tune and I'm already at about 340whp. I can imagine that with an intake manifold, headers, and some other bits and pieces with a better tune you can get close to maybe 370whp if you're lucky?

Lol I'd love to own that dyno!

Me too!

Yes, and there's always the problem of different dyno readings lol. Maybe on a dyno that reads much higher than whatever the standard is, 400whp is possible?

On that note, is there a standard dyno that we're supposed to compare numbers to based on what dyno we used? My numbers were done supposedly on a mustang dyno that reads 20% or 30% lower than it's supposed to, and then numbers get recalculated from there buuut I have no idea how accurate it really is

Typically the DynoJet is the most consistent.

Ecu tek will yeild you more power with its ability to tune the vvel

I just need something other than a dry sump to spin the motor to 8,000 rpms. I found heads jun cams and ati damper, waiting on cjm manifold to come out.

mustang dynos running the FACTORY CALIBRATION read lower but the mustang can actually be calibrated to read much higher. the dynojet is locked down as far as the calibration goes.

If the parts i need are available ill either take it z1 motorsports or forged performance in GA

Yes, dynojet SAE 5th gear, period!

Most of us turbo guys dyno in 4th. The 5th gear pull is just a glory pull.

Most do regardless so they dont pull that fast of a speed but it's not a glory pull; it's the cars 1:1 so if you want to be the most accurate you need it.

My car makes more power in 5th than 4th

4th is less wear and tear on the motor -- you're looking at maybe A few more lbft of tq... 4th is fine.

Compare and contrast in detail here...

http://www.the370z.com/members/jordo...es-3-gears.jpg

Of course and it should. That's 1:1 ratio. That in SAE is as accurate as you can be. 5th isn't cheating it's just correct.

Here's a cusotmers 4th vs 5th. The 316 vs 324 ones.

Just not a fan of doing 5th gear pulls when it isn't necessary. In no off track, and even then highly unlikely, situation should you be boosting in 5th. You're better off in 4th.

I agree. My tuner and most tune 4th then finish one off in 5th. Doing 5th also can be safer because the loads higher so the tunes not as aggressive. This can be better if you're in a real world up hill against wind you don't have to worry as much with knock etc.

Just a minor update. Just bought a used long block. It's coming together slowly but surely. Now i can build with the motor out of the car.