400 whp on N/A VQ possible?

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 03:45 PM

Thats why i ask questions and don't just stay buying parts like a rookie. I'll ask a million question just to get it right.

370Z JT · 06-23-2015, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

You're not the weird one. It's absolutely ***-backwards. I'm guessing the OP has never had a turbo car, and he's also never driven something like he's thinking of building. This smells like one of those projects that either
A. Never get completed
B. Get completed and never come close to making the planned power
C. Get completed at a far greater cost than the next best option, and is so peaky, unreliable, can't run on pump gas and doesn't perform at the level the builder would want, so the car gets sold.

A 400whp TT setup on the stock block will be a far more reliable vehicle than a 400whp NA car. That 400whp NA car is going to have very little area under the curve and you'll have to wring it out to get anywhere. At the same time that 400whp turbo car has a lot more headroom for growth.

OP, good luck but the deck is absolutely stacked against you. You're going to be out there on a limb so far that very few people will be able to offer insight, all the parts you need will be one-offs and priced accordingly, and it seems like some of the questions you're asking show a lack of experience that will be an absolute stumbling block in a project like this.

For example, thinking a NA motor revved way above the stock redline is somehow more reliable than a boosted setup. Sure, One guy somewhere did it and it lived long enough for him to sell the car a few weeks later. That's what you're using as your test case. RPM will kill a motor a hell of a lot faster than boost.

A.

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 03:54 PM

It's not negativity, it's reality. What you're trying to do has not been done by anyone here. The closest person to doing it was still 25whp away from your goal and punted. That doesn't mean it cannot be done, it just means that it is either not worth the tradeoffs to the few people who would otherwise do it, or the cost/hp curve is so out of whack they go to other plans. The people you need to be asking questions of are the people who build race motors, not the peanut gallery on a forum. Someone here posted the contact details of someone who can build you what you want. Why not go and ask them how feasible the project is? The last thing you want is to be past the point of no return and find out what you're trying to do is not possible without a lot more cash.

It's completely ok to do something just because no one else has. Just don't con yourself into thinking it will be more reliable, cheaper, easier or faster than the equivalent FI setup. You're just doing it because no one else has.

sandersd · 06-23-2015, 04:09 PM

Man does this sound familiar...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

It's not negativity, it's reality. What you're trying to do has not been done by anyone here. The closest person to doing it was still 25whp away from your goal and punted. That doesn't mean it cannot be done, it just means that it is either not worth the tradeoffs to the few people who would otherwise do it, or the cost/hp curve is so out of whack they go to other plans. The people you need to be asking questions of are the people who build race motors, not the peanut gallery on a forum. Someone here posted the contact details of someone who can build you what you want. Why not go and ask them how feasible the project is? The last thing you want is to be past the point of no return and find out what you're trying to do is not possible without a lot more cash.

It's completely ok to do something just because no one else has. Just don't con yourself into thinking it will be more reliable, cheaper, easier or faster than the equivalent FI setup. You're just doing it because no one else has.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 04:23 PM

I've had a boosted car.in looking for wet sump solutions to rev to 8k-8200 cjm had billet oul pump gears and steel backing plate up for group buy, but only 2 other people including myself were interested. Cjm is also building a manifold that I'm still waiting on. Chuck don't make assumptions, makes you look bad. I'm just here to find helpful information, not 2000 reasons to go TT.

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

I've had a boosted car.in looking for wet sump solutions to rev to 8k-8200 cjm had billet oul pump gears and steel backing plate up for group buy, but only 2 other people including myself were interested. Cjm is also building a manifold that I'm still waiting on. Chuck don't make assumptions, makes you look bad. I'm just here to find helpful information, not 2000 reasons to go TT.

Dude, how about this. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I will buy you a case of beer if/when you show up with a Dynojet dyno sheet for a 400whp NA Z. Your call on brand. Not domestic piss light beer, either. Quality beer.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 04:37 PM

That car is still running, he sold the car because he needed money not because his car was going to crap out

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Dude, how about this. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I will buy you a case of beer if/when you show up with a Dynojet dyno sheet for a 400whp NA Z. Your call on brand. Not domestic piss light beer, either. Quality beer.

Now we are talking. I'll hold you to that i never forget,. I'll hold you to the same bet if i ever back out.

Chuck33079 · 06-23-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

Now we are talking. I'll hold you to that i never forget,. I'll hold you to the same bet if i ever back out.

Sounds like a plan.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 05:16 PM

Im saying this build is better than any other build.

Jordo! · 06-23-2015, 07:41 PM

Elmo, you started out with:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

I'm wondering if anyone out there can tune the VQ motor on pump gas, and without the use of crazy expensive ITB's or swapping out crankshafts to make 400 whp on the NA motor? Or is the vvel that complicated that no tuners can come close to making the power without the use of DE heads, crazy engine rebuild, or forced induction. Maybe with EcuTek and their claim to be superior to Uprev, still waiting to see that. I just want some educated guesses on what they think is possible, I know tuning the VQ motor is still very brand new and tuners have come along way.

Thank you everyone for your time.

So, unfortunately, no, it can't be done without an enormous amount of custom work and tuning it seems

I like ambitious projects, but my recommendation is to take on a different one: Figure out how to get a roots or twinscrew blower on this motor.

Same heads, same headers, same cams. You'd probably need a bigger fuel pump and injectors, and a tune. Oh, and a blower sized for a V6.

You'd need to figure out how mate the SC to the IM (fab work... I'd probably find a used M370 IM and experiment with chopping it up), some plumbing for a A2W IC and HE, and probably cut a hole in the hood, but it would give you V8 like toque and response right off of idle, and best of all, it would feel like a more powerful N/A car.

It would be awesome for a DD or road course car and no one else has done it yet. It would almost certainly be no more expensive or more difficult to fit than any of the custom N/A projects that have been undertaken, and it would have enormous potential above and beyond a high-strung N/A build.

Elmo370z · 06-23-2015, 09:32 PM

I remember what i quoted, im not doing a m370 manifold, im waiting on CJM manifold and then start building from there. Ill be tuning with ecu tek. I was really hoping CJM BILLET gears would of sold. I need another way to rev. The motor. We will have to wait and see, i dont w t to lose my bet with chuck

.c2 · 06-26-2015, 07:18 PM

I have an intake, test pipes, catback, and uprev tune and I'm already at about 340whp. I can imagine that with an intake manifold, headers, and some other bits and pieces with a better tune you can get close to maybe 370whp if you're lucky?

synolimit · 06-26-2015, 07:22 PM

Lol I'd love to own that dyno!

jwick · 06-26-2015, 07:26 PM

Me too!

06-23-2015, 03:45 PM	#211 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,709 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	Thats why i ask questions and don't just stay buying parts like a rookie. I'll ask a million question just to get it right. Last edited by Elmo370z; 06-24-2015 at 12:31 PM.

06-23-2015, 03:54 PM	#213 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	It's not negativity, it's reality. What you're trying to do has not been done by anyone here. The closest person to doing it was still 25whp away from your goal and punted. That doesn't mean it cannot be done, it just means that it is either not worth the tradeoffs to the few people who would otherwise do it, or the cost/hp curve is so out of whack they go to other plans. The people you need to be asking questions of are the people who build race motors, not the peanut gallery on a forum. Someone here posted the contact details of someone who can build you what you want. Why not go and ask them how feasible the project is? The last thing you want is to be past the point of no return and find out what you're trying to do is not possible without a lot more cash. It's completely ok to do something just because no one else has. Just don't con yourself into thinking it will be more reliable, cheaper, easier or faster than the equivalent FI setup. You're just doing it because no one else has. Megan370z, BGTV8, Jordo! and 1 others like this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

06-26-2015, 07:18 PM	#223 (permalink)
.c2 Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: BC Canada Posts: 414 Drives: 09 370z MB 6MT Rep Power: 13	I have an intake, test pipes, catback, and uprev tune and I'm already at about 340whp. I can imagine that with an intake manifold, headers, and some other bits and pieces with a better tune you can get close to maybe 370whp if you're lucky? __________________ Instagram // Build Thread Amuse / Mines / Bride / Momo / KW / Hotchkis / Motordyne / Invidia / Injen

06-26-2015, 07:22 PM	#224 (permalink)
synolimit A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2013 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 5,051 Drives: 2013 Silver 370z Rep Power: 3389	Lol I'd love to own that dyno! __________________ 13 370z-

06-26-2015, 07:26 PM	#225 (permalink)
jwick A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Houston Posts: 14,532 Drives: '10 G37 6MT Rep Power: 2465057	Me too! __________________ '10 G37T 6MT Graphite/Graphite - BP - G37T Build

06-23-2015, 04:23 PM	#215 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,709 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	I've had a boosted car.in looking for wet sump solutions to rev to 8k-8200 cjm had billet oul pump gears and steel backing plate up for group buy, but only 2 other people including myself were interested. Cjm is also building a manifold that I'm still waiting on. Chuck don't make assumptions, makes you look bad. I'm just here to find helpful information, not 2000 reasons to go TT.

06-23-2015, 04:37 PM	#217 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,709 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	That car is still running, he sold the car because he needed money not because his car was going to crap out

06-23-2015, 05:16 PM	#220 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,709 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	Im saying this build is better than any other build.

06-23-2015, 09:32 PM	#222 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,709 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	I remember what i quoted, im not doing a m370 manifold, im waiting on CJM manifold and then start building from there. Ill be tuning with ecu tek. I was really hoping CJM BILLET gears would of sold. I need another way to rev. The motor. We will have to wait and see, i dont w t to lose my bet with chuck