TSM makes 357RWHP NA on a Stock Longblock VQ37

synolimit · 05-06-2014, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreek

I think a lot of it comes down to some of your expectations. All of the parts on this car in particular can be bought and installed on your own. Then it is up to your tuner to get all the power out of them. Some of that comes with tricks that particular tuner has learned on the platform. No one is going to give out their own secrets. That would be bad business practice as then there would be no reason for anyone to have to go to them to get what only they know.

There are some good tuners scattered across the US. I am not going to ship my car to California for instance in order to get knowledge from a tuner out there that may have made further gains on the platform. It would be bad for me and other Central/East coast Z owners. But it would be great for all the West coast Z owners.

We don't all live in GA though. We need tuners and dyno's up here too.

This is what I hate about the Z community. The subi community had many hands in developing rom raider and still do to define definitions for FREE. We used the free open source tuning software and could get help from anywhere. All you needed was a $150 cable or borrow one.

Even free MANY MANY MANY!! People still go to tuners since they can't do it themselves or would even dream of trying. Uprev sucks making you pay $150-180 just to crack the ecu and since 90% of the population doesn't live in GA just share with people! If you don't have shitty customer service you shouldn't be worried about other tuners stealing your ****. People will still want to come to you for a pro tune on their car. Yes you may lose out of town business but unless you pay them $100 in gas to come to you, why be a hater when guys just want to save money? Be happy for them that they run your tune or the knowledge you gave their tuner. We are all here to enjoy the same thing and I doubt you'll see a income drop if you told your secrets. Locals will still pay and you can freely keep rapping GTR customers for $1000 plus tunes and $5000 CBE since their metal and bends must be so much better than ours for that price.

Optimiser · 05-07-2014, 09:05 AM

I think 361HP at rear wheels NA is total BS. So there I said it.

Chuck33079 · 05-07-2014, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimiser

I think 361HP at rear wheels NA is total BS. So there I said it.

Without a trap speed or a dyno run at a neutral site, I'm leaning your way. I'm not ruling it out, but when you beat the previous record NA numbers by 20whp and then go radio silence when people ask you specifics about what you did, it makes me wonder if that car would still be breaking records on someone else's dyno.

One run down the drag strip and all of the questions go away. It's really that simple.

FPenvy · 05-07-2014, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Without a trap speed or a dyno run at a neutral site, I'm leaning your way. I'm not ruling it out, but when you beat the previous record NA numbers by 20whp and then go radio silence when people ask you specifics about what you did, it makes me wonder if that car would still be breaking records on someone else's dyno.

One run down the drag strip and all of the questions go away. It's really that simple.

i was trying to believe this all at first......but i really dont.

synolimit · 05-07-2014, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimiser

I think 361HP at rear wheels NA is total BS. So there I said it.

Lol. Well it was std so figure the real numbers are 346-353. In for trap speeds too confirm along with weight of vehicle, fuel, driver.

jcosta79 · 05-07-2014, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimiser

I think 361HP at rear wheels NA is total BS. So there I said it.

I tend to agree. Stock these cars put down between 255-275 RWHP, right? Gaining ~100 RWHP without changing cams or increasing displacement? I'm having a hard time buying it.

You can make N/A gains of 100 RWHP+ in an LS3 Corvette, but you need CAI, headers with exhaust, very aggressive cam, U/D pulley, and possibly some head work. And that's in a car with 6.2L of displacement to work with. Making those same types of gains with only 3.7L and LESS upgrades seems way to good to be true.

jaytirbhaw · 05-07-2014, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcosta79

I tend to agree. Stock these cars put down between 255-275 RWHP, right? Gaining ~100 RWHP without changing cams or increasing displacement? I'm having a hard time buying it.

You can make N/A gains of 100 RWHP+ in an LS3 Corvette, but you need CAI, headers with exhaust, very aggressive cam, U/D pulley, and possibly some head work. And that's in a car with 6.2L of displacement to work with. Making those same types of gains with only 3.7L and LESS upgrades seems way to good to be true.

Just pointing out....

Z1's shop car hit 356 rwhp. Doesn't seem that far off from this car's numbers,

So that's two different cars, with presumably similar mods on two separate dynos making similar gains.

Could just be the Georgia Air

FPenvy · 05-07-2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaytirbhaw

Just pointing out....

Z1's shop car hit 356 rwhp. Doesn't seem that far off from this car's numbers,

So that's two different cars, with presumably similar mods on two separate dynos making similar gains.

Could just be the Georgia Air

or maybe both being

?

Chuck33079 · 05-07-2014, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaytirbhaw

Just pointing out....

Z1's shop car hit 356 rwhp. Doesn't seem that far off from this car's numbers,

So that's two different cars, with presumably similar mods on two separate dynos making similar gains.

Could just be the Georgia Air

Z1's dyno is known to be "generous". So it's two cars with similar "secret"

mods making similar record numbers on two separate dynos, one of which is known to be one of the higher reading ones. That's why I hope they'll show us a trap speed.

jaytirbhaw · 05-07-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPenvy

or maybe both being

?

Who knows, I'm just as curious.

I have no experience with top speed yet, but I do know Z1 doesn't care to bs much lol.

@ Chuck , agreed. Trap speeds would be beneficial

What we do know about both cars:

z1 headers
tomei single
tuned by z1 and former z1 employee

Chuck33079 · 05-07-2014, 11:19 AM

We all hope the numbers are repeatable. It's a good thing. We need people to push the limits of what can be done with this motor. It's just got to be proveable and repeatable. If it's just one factory freak car that doesn't help the community. If it's one of those things where you can buy their parts, take them to your local tuner and drop 350whp on demand, everybody benefits.

FPenvy · 05-07-2014, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

We all hope the numbers are repeatable. It's a good thing. We need people to push the limits of what can be done with this motor. It's just got to be proveable and repeatable. If it's just one factory freak car that doesn't help the community. If it's one of those things where you can buy their parts, take them to your local tuner and drop 350whp on demand, everybody benefits.

yea well first step in this is for them to talk about what is even being done with it and help out the community....which this is.

trap speed would be cool to see. it better be big for all this talk and "high" numbers. i mean with my tiny WHP i trapped pretty high a few times for N/A. interested to see if this will ever be shown.

jcosta79 · 05-07-2014, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaytirbhaw

Just pointing out....

Z1's shop car hit 356 rwhp. Doesn't seem that far off from this car's numbers,

So that's two different cars, with presumably similar mods on two separate dynos making similar gains.

Could just be the Georgia Air

The after HP # doesn't really concern me. I can make a dyno read pretty much whatever I want to read within reason. The only way to accurately measure HP gains is to do a before dyno with the same car and preferably on the same day (or as close as possible) as the after dyno. Comparing someone else's before dyno to your after dyno is pretty much useless.

What concerns me is that we are being shown a before dyno of 272 (correct me if I am wrong) and an after dyno of 361 (again, correct me if I am wrong) which means we are looking at a supposed gain of 89 RWHP. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. These are either dyno sheets of 2 different cars and/or they were taken at 2 different periods of time. Show me the before dyno of the same car and the after dyno of the same car taken on the same day (or close to it) with all the other factors being the same, and then let's talk turkey.

Again, if I am wrong, please let me know, because I can't see the actual dyno sheets posted due to the firewall in place at work. I am just going on #'s that are being mentioned in the thread.

Chuck33079 · 05-07-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcosta79

The after HP # doesn't really concern me. I can make a dyno read pretty much whatever I want to read within reason. The only way to accurately measure HP gains is to do a before dyno with the same car and preferably on the same day (or as close as possible) as the after dyno. Comparing someone else's before dyno to your after dyno is pretty much useless.

What concerns me is that we are being shown a before dyno of 272 (correct me if I am wrong) and an after dyno of 361 (again, correct me if I am wrong) which means we are looking at a supposed gain of 89 RWHP. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. These are either dyno sheets of 2 different cars and/or they were taken at 2 different periods of time. Show me the before dyno of the same car and the after dyno of the same car taken on the same day (or close to it) with all the other factors being the same, and then let's talk turkey.

Most Nismos seem to dyno between 280-290whp, right? Work blocks most images here too- is the correction factor the same on both dyno charts?

daisuke149 · 05-07-2014, 11:40 AM

The Z1 Dyno is not generous. Ive seen too many stock 370 put down 372ish and nismos around 385-390. Ive seen cars that should make power, make it and cars that have some issues not.

Its a dynojet. Same as TopSpeed's. Really no way to play with numbers unless they can control the environment. I think the issue most people have is that GA isn't exactly high altitude. So if anything, other dyno's read lower, but these 2 should be accurate.

There was a dyno day this past saturday. With alot of Z's dynoing. I missed the first 4 hours so im not sure what happened, but the numbers I saw looked consistant with the dyno's and mods.

05-07-2014, 09:05 AM	#62 (permalink)
Optimiser Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 455 Drives: 2012 Nissan 370Z MT Rep Power: 20144	I think 361HP at rear wheels NA is total BS. So there I said it. FPenvy, megalapagas and synolimit like this.

05-07-2014, 11:19 AM	#71 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	We all hope the numbers are repeatable. It's a good thing. We need people to push the limits of what can be done with this motor. It's just got to be proveable and repeatable. If it's just one factory freak car that doesn't help the community. If it's one of those things where you can buy their parts, take them to your local tuner and drop 350whp on demand, everybody benefits. jaytirbhaw likes this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

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05-07-2014, 11:40 AM	#75 (permalink)
daisuke149 My *** is famous! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Alpharetta, GA Posts: 4,849 Drives: 2013 Boss 302 PW Rep Power: 31	The Z1 Dyno is not generous. Ive seen too many stock 370 put down 372ish and nismos around 385-390. Ive seen cars that should make power, make it and cars that have some issues not. Its a dynojet. Same as TopSpeed's. Really no way to play with numbers unless they can control the environment. I think the issue most people have is that GA isn't exactly high altitude. So if anything, other dyno's read lower, but these 2 should be accurate. There was a dyno day this past saturday. With alot of Z's dynoing. I missed the first 4 hours so im not sure what happened, but the numbers I saw looked consistant with the dyno's and mods.