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-   -   Very odd problem (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/84820-very-odd-problem.html)

Lowbz21 01-18-2014 06:39 PM

Very odd problem
 
When I am in mid corner going decently quick, off the gas, once I hit a certain amount of lateral g-force the car goes slightly on the gas by itself.

Can someone chime in on what they think this might be or why it's doing it?

Rusty 01-18-2014 10:18 PM

Left or right hand turn?

Lowbz21 01-18-2014 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 2657539)
Left or right hand turn?

Both

DEpointfive0 01-18-2014 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowbz21 (Post 2657542)
Both

Lies!!! Lol

It's honestly most likely a long hard right turn. Which is fuel starve because the gas tank is designed shittily

Lowbz21 01-18-2014 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0 (Post 2657543)
Lies!!! Lol

It's honestly most likely a long hard right turn. Which is fuel starve because the gas tank is designed shittily

Lol nope it's both but wouldn't fuel starvation be the opposite? More of a bog rather than giving the car gas?

SPOHN 01-18-2014 10:34 PM

Your car is trying to say let's go

DEpointfive0 01-18-2014 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowbz21 (Post 2657546)
Lol nope it's both but wouldn't fuel starvation be the opposite? More of a bog rather than giving the car gas?

Yep. I'm drunk and have been for 2 days. I read that the car goes off the gas itself. My bad.
Carry on :tiphat:

Lowbz21 01-18-2014 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0 (Post 2657548)
Yep. I'm drunk and have been for 2 days. I read that the car goes off the gas itself. My bad.
Carry on :tiphat:

Hahah I actually laughed at that

SurfDog 01-18-2014 11:11 PM

Mine does it too. I think its a VDC thing to keep you from skid/over-steering. It usually happens on full decel, in medium to hard high speed (50-60 mph) turns. about .8 Gs maybe. Usually downhill it seems.

Try to find a place where it happens consistantly, under known parameters (mostly speed). (I found a certain off ramp that did it) ... then try the turn with VDC off.

SouthArk370Z 01-19-2014 07:03 AM

Just a guess but, if you have the 7AT, it may be the throttle blip on downshift.

Lowbz21 01-19-2014 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog (Post 2657565)
Mine does it too. I think its a VDC thing to keep you from skid/over-steering. It usually happens on full decel, in medium to hard high speed (50-60 mph) turns. about .8 Gs maybe. Usually downhill it seems.

Try to find a place where it happens consistantly, under known parameters (mostly speed). (I found a certain off ramp that did it) ... then try the turn with VDC off.

Ill try with vdc off, but if that's what it is that seems very unsafe.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z (Post 2657712)
Just a guess but, if you have the 7AT, it may be the throttle blip on downshift.

It's a manual

SurfDog 01-19-2014 01:17 PM

Well when you say unsafe i kind of agree. It always used to catch me by surprise. Once you begin to anticipate it... It's just annoying. I go VDC off for decelerating downhill turns.

VDC is really only useful when you are turning your attention level down or are in wet/snow IMHO.

Lowbz21 01-19-2014 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog (Post 2658014)
Well when you say unsafe i kind of agree. It always used to catch me by surprise. Once you begin to anticipate it... It's just annoying. I go VDC off for decelerating downhill turns.

VDC is really only useful when you are turning your attention level down or are in wet/snow IMHO.

You may be right, I turned vdc off and went around a corner trying to get the car to do it and it didn't happen. I may just not have been going quick enough but if it is the vdc I won't why I couldn't find anything when I searched. You'd think these track guys would go nuts the first time it happened and post something up trying to figure it out.

SurfDog 01-20-2014 05:37 PM

Very odd problem
 
It doesn't happen when you are braking as far as I can tell. Track guys (like me) seldom only engine brake around turns. Usually there is either some feathered in throttle or full brake or full throttle on race turns. Also most of my tracking is done VDC off so I can slide a bit without loosing power exiting turns. VDC off eliminates the problem.

I'm with you though the first time it happened to me, I almost crapped my pants it was so unexpected.

SurfDog 01-20-2014 05:42 PM

Very odd problem
 
Try going around the same turn several times at known speeds to induce the "nanny". Then once you can get it reliably to occur go VDC off. I bet your problem will be solved.

I believe this is caused by the unloaded rear wheel slipping as you turn. The throttle comes in to "plant the wheel and/or to negate your deceleration (moves your "traction circle" more toward the lateral axis as you turn.)

One note, that's a pretty aggressive (close to lateral g limit) turn to get the VDC to step in. Be careful out there. Cheers!

JWillis72 01-20-2014 05:56 PM

Does the light flash? Mine does a very similar thing if the back end even comes around slightly. I've seen post here that say it the yaw sensor that causes it.

It will even do it with the VDC off unless its disconnected.

SurfDog 01-20-2014 05:57 PM

I don't remember seeing the VDC light flash.

JWillis72 01-20-2014 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog (Post 2659557)
I don't remember seeing the VDC light flash.

This is the thread talking about it. I bet the light does flash for a second , I have a Stillen supercharger on my car and it causes it to do it all the time.


http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...sable-vdc.html

I plan on having a switch added to mine in the near future.

SurfDog 01-20-2014 06:03 PM

I figured there HAD to be a thread.

JWillis72 01-20-2014 06:33 PM

It seem some people don't understand why you would disable it but always makes me freak for a second when it kicks in.

Hotrodz 01-20-2014 06:56 PM

Wow...this sounds like what happened to me last week on a mountain run. It was not a long sweeper but just as SurfDog described. I was was coming off a down hill run at about 65 or more into a hairpin left hand turn. I braked, down shift, braked and started my turn. The car wanted to push right through the turn. It felt just like I had my foot on the brake and gas pedal. I slammed the brake hard and came to a stop. After removing the fabric from my butt cheeks, I turned the VDC off, which I thought I had already done and everything was fine from that point on.

JWillis72 01-20-2014 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz (Post 2659619)
Wow...this sounds like what happened to me last week on a mountain run. It was not a long sweeper but just as SurfDog described. I was was coming off a down hill run at about 65 or more into a hairpin left hand turn. I braked, down shift, braked and started my turn. The car wanted to push right through the turn. It felt just like I had my foot on the brake and gas pedal. I slammed the brake hard and came to a stop. After removing the fabric from my butt cheeks, I turned the VDC off, which I thought I had already done and everything was fine from that point on.

It will still do it with the VDC off if the back comes around at all. I understand why that works for everyday driving but its a little freaky when you are pushing it in a turn. With the TT it wont be the last time it does it!

SurfDog 01-20-2014 07:06 PM

Interesting I've never had it happen with VDC off. I'll have to play a bit and test. (Turn 5 at HPR might be a good spot to research this phenomenon.)

JWillis72 01-20-2014 07:09 PM

Mine does it even if I go through a sandy median on the gas, I'm 100% positive it does it with it off. I always turn my VDC off unless its raining.

SurfDog 01-20-2014 07:10 PM

Good to know. I read other threads that say it has something to do with the yaw damper.

SurfDog 01-20-2014 07:11 PM

...which is a ***** to turn off apparently.

Hotrodz 01-20-2014 07:34 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I didn't know if it was due to my sway bars not being tuned as well as they could be. I know that can cause understeer as well. I don't know about you guys, but I get just as much pleasure out of executing these kind of driving maneuvers just as much as accelerating from 20 to 100mph. I hope someone come up with a workable remedy!

SurfDog 01-20-2014 07:36 PM

I agree it's all a blast. I put in a Quaife LSD. It helped with oversteer quite a bit. (IOW it made it more fun lol)

JWillis72 01-20-2014 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz (Post 2659676)
Thanks for the info guys. I didn't know if it was due to my sway bars not being tuned as well as they could be. I know that can cause understeer as well. I don't know about you guys, but I get just as much pleasure out of executing these kind of driving maneuvers just as much as accelerating from 20 to 100mph. I hope someone come up with a workable remedy!

My understanding is it only takes a momentary disruption from the sensor to turn it off, so installing a push button break in the power line should work. My car is is the body shop getting a new hood but I plan to look into it when I get it back.

Hotrodz 01-20-2014 07:48 PM

Sweet...in for hearing about your results.

JWillis72 01-20-2014 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrodz (Post 2659699)
Sweet...in for hearing about your results.

I will make sure I post when I have more answers. As soon as I get it out of the body shop (hopefully Wednesday)its going to NUR to have the clock replaced with a combo AFR/boost gauge so I will have them look into it then.

SurfDog 01-20-2014 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWillis72 (Post 2659710)
I will make sure I post when I have more answers. As soon as I get it out of the body shop (hopefully Wednesday)its going to NUR to have the clock replaced with a combo AFR/boost gauge so I will have them look into it then.

Sounds pretty sweet! :tup: I'll be interested to hear how the car drives with the yaw damper off.

Sometimes my ABS sensors fail and I loose: ABS, VDC, and traction control (and I'm assuming YAW damper too). (I think I'm going to have to replace the sensors...) Anyhow, I've driven some lapping days at the track like that, and the car handles fine in turns, but yaws around quite a bit when I full brake from 120 down to cornering speed. I need to pump the brakes and be super careful with trail brake over-steer coming into corners in this condition.

I wonder if the ABS will keep you Straight when doing a high performance braking into a turn with your yaw damper disabled? I'm guessing... not??

Word of caution: When testing your performance limits with disabled systems be ready for some WILD RIDES. I consider myself a fairly competent track driver but am here to say, it does not take much for the Z to go past recoverable limits with all the braking and power we have. Out of control recoveries take skill and practice (and sometimes a lot of space). I have the dings and grass stains on my skirt to prove it! Once the car goes sideways, without stability control, and at high speed, things develop pretty quickly. I did not realize how much those systems were helping me until they were disabled. Have fun, be safe, and I'm in for your results!!! :driving:


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