Prototype Aftermarket Clutch Master Cylinder - INSTALLED!
 

EDIT (10/25/2013): Finally had a chance to update this post. TL;DR: All is well!
Good news everyone!

As you may know, I had my second clutch master cylinder fail, and I was tired of replacing them with OEM clutch master cylinders. Since I drive my car harder than most people, I was recommended by Joe@ZSpeed to use a Southbend Stage 3+ Drag clutch setup, and it took a heavy toll on the OEM clutch master cylinder. I began my research and development into finding a suitable aftermarket replacement. I searched far and wide and called a few companies, including looking for a direct fit replacement, but it was uncharted waters for the 370Z.

That research was culminated in this thread: http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...-cylinder.html

However! I am honestly very proud to announce, barring any race teams or race cars I know of, I am the first person to successfully install an aftermarket clutch master cylinder AND keep the ABS: (thanks Megan370z.)

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps8a3e6b1f.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps1ed0d2d1.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps548cc295.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps188f555f.jpg

This is a Tilton Racing 76-Series Racing master cylinder with Grade-8 steel mounting hardware for durability and strength and a custom 6061-Aluminium mounting bracket I machined myself. The brake line is a special alloy brake line that allows high resistance to kinking and vibration and allows hand-bending. All bore sizing and stroke compared to OEM was considered, and this was designed to fit in place exactly like OEM, with grinding of the ABS module bracket as the only modification.

Needless to say, I finished the installation just prior to this post, and barring minor setbacks with parts, fitment, and tools, and bleeding with a friend, it works! :tup: The master cylinder holds perfect line pressure with less dead play than OEM, as well as having no harder rebound or change in engagement point compared to OEM! I just went for a drive, and it feels exactly how it should always feel - strong and firm, but easy to modulate and predictable in its behavior.

I'd also like to note that what you see is what I consider my prototype - if I were to go about it again, I would have parts professionally water-jetted, sourced custom parts to make a cleaner install, and also simple fixes such as found a new clutch fluid reservoir to fit cleanly. Having the OEM reservoir sitting funky is just temporary!

When I started this project, I hoped that it would be simpler to do, that it could become a forum DIY. As I progressed with the install, it became apparent that this was not a simple DIY, but a laborious task. Tracking down fittings, lines, hoses, and nuts and bolts to convert a Japanese master cylinder to an American-made master cylinder was INSANE. I wish I could say that it was simple to do, but that would be somewhat far from the truth. Also, a visit to the dealer might be required, since the ABS module had to be removed from the car.

I'm going to hold my words regarding reliability of this master cylinder until I get lots of more miles and heat cycles through it. I'll be updating every so often to give you guys more news and whatnot!

Also, I appreciate the support in the people pushing me to do this project. I'm glad I was able to successfully develop and install an aftermarket master cylinder into the 370Z. Fingers crossed, but this is hopefully the last time I will EVER deal with the master cylinder! I'll also be updating the thread with more detail in my part choices, master cylinder places, driving experiences, pictures, etc. when I have more time.

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Alright! Finally had a moment to post some pictures!

First off, I'll take some time to eventually post up a step-by-step on how to remove the ABS module, and subsequently, the OEM CMC. This is mainly because if anyone was to do this install, grinding of the ABS module mounting bracket is necessary. But for now, here are some interim pictures so you fellas can get an idea of my thought process.

Here is the main culprit which halts the installation of an aftermarket master cylinder:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...psd1e9068b.jpg

As you can see, the OEM CMC is already very close to the ABS module bracket (both illuminated by the camera flash). In this picture, the gap is about a little less than half an inch. To help explain the issue, here is the OEM CMC:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...s1b26f7c1.jpeg

Nissan made a very interesting CMC - where half the body is INSIDE of the interior of the car. Most CMCs, including the Tilton CMC I bought as you can see, has the body of the CMC on the outside, and only the threaded rod to the piston into the car. Naturally, this is quite an issue.

Here is a picture of the ABS mounting bracket, removed from the car:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps640c4929.jpg

And here is an isometric view of the bracket (note - this bracket is trimmed already, so it's missing a corner. I wanted to show the other two rubber bushing mounts you couldn't see on the first one.)

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...pse5652427.jpg

In the first picture, you are looking at the corner of the ABS bracket that would be closest to the OEM CMC, and with the rubber bushing removed. Upon inspection after removal, the bracket has 4 rubber bushings that hold the top piece of the bracket to the lower, and the top piece holds the actual ABS module in place. The point of the rubber bushings is to absorb vibrations and to dampen them. Since there were 4 bushings, if I trimmed down one of them and only had 3, the ABS module would still be kinematically stable - i.e., it will still absorb vibrations and not move.

Here is that bracket, trimmed down:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...psdf7182fd.jpg

As you can see, I removed quite a bit from the original. I took it to my bench grinder and worked it until I removed what I thought was necessary. I trimmed about a quarter inch past the last remnant of the area for the rubber bushing. It wasn't hard to do, just time consuming because I didn't have gloves and it got REAL HOT. :bowrofl:

Even with all this removal, after installing my prototype CMC, I only had about a quarter-inch of clearance! Very tight fit, but I knew it was possible. :tup: There is still room to grind more, but hey, don't fix what ain't broke at this point.

That's the main thing I wanted to share at this point, since it was the crucial step to making an aftermarket CMC work. Like I said, I'll try to get a step-by-step up later to let you guys determine if it's DIY for you guys. ^^ Also! I'll be doing the mileage updates in the second post as well.

Reserved for more pictures and updates!

wow this is great nice will be looking forward to updates.

Nice, will it fit 2004 350z?

Glad you got this solved. DIY mod of the year IMO. Can't wait to see more pics. With my car being down I just might take on this just cause.

the first who installed an aftermarket clutch master cylinder and keeping the ABS module.

Since I installed the Wilwood CMC last winter and ditched the ABS module for a proportional valve.


good job on that work ;)
:tup:

;( i would pay u to make me what i need if i bought this master cylinder.

I would change out the resevoir to a size for a autobleeder cap.....easy clutch flush! Maybe put another brake resevoir inside? Just an idea...none the less sub'd for more info. Congrats bro on a awesome thread!

Did anyone else here professor farnsworth when they read OP's opening sentence?

Hey guys, just a quick peep!

I plan on getting some pictures and stuff up and to update on the driving experience with you all, but something quick to report - I've been driving my car for the past week, including some very spirited driving as well, and it's been holding up FLAWLESSLY. No leaks or funny feeling in the drivetrain at all!

At first, I found myself driving very hesitantly, since I felt that due to the OEM CMC was so fragile, I was scared to slam gears and push the car. Over the past week, my confidence in my car is returning. It's a great feeling.

I just finished taking 4 midterm exams at school, so that's been my recent priority. I definitely want to get back to my love of cars though. :)

This is soooooo great to hear!! You know I am going to be down to get one of these. I STILL am having that weary feeling every time I try to slam a gear. Engagement just doesn't feel right. You da man!

Is that hose clamp under a lot of pressure? If it is, always use fuel injection hose clamps. They are much better suited for high pressure, holding firm, and they don't eat and dig into rubber hose when over tightened. They also provide 360 degrees of equal tightness where a worm clamp can see gaps around the screw area.

This will be a doddle in a RH drive car like we have .... great write-up ...

That clamp is on the hose going to the resevior. No pressure there. ;)

I was just looking a this very CMC last night. The Tilton 76-Series.

Very cool. I am getting ready to replace my OEM CMC for a second time. Seems they only last me about three track days before the on on the floor.

Thanks for all the love guys. :tup:

Like Rusty said - that is just for the fluid reservoir (non-pressure side). I stupidly forgot, in my 15+ trips to NAPA and Home Depot to buy two of those clamps, so I just had to rummage around my garage to find one. You can see that a zip tie holds the other end of the 1/4 inch line. Either way, zip ties would have been fine for a long while anyway. I plan on going back with another worm clamp - no need for more expensive T-bolt style clamps.

Speaking on the terms of the fluid reservoir - The reason I couldn't shorten the tubing at all is that the 1/2 in to 1/4 in fitting I made was so long. Turns out that not many, if any applications in the world at all require a barb fitting from 1/2 to 1/4 inches. I am looking into purchasing a new fluid reservoir that already starts at 1/4 inch so I don't need any unions or such. It's something to note - simplicity is better. The less unions/fittings you have, the less places of failure and leakage! Even though this is the non-pressure side, less is always better.

BGTV8, I do believe this would be dead easy on a RHD car, if the ABS module stays on the left side. ^^



While I have some time at home, I wanted to shout out a thought. I brought up something in my original research thread that some people seemed interested about, and it's something I'm heavily considering: I'm debating putting together complete kits for this master cylinder setup for sale. As this is my prototype, there are many improvements that can be made to make the setup more professional and easier to install. Also, if this progresses further enough, I will definitely contact AK and figure out something.

I was thinking that these kits would include EVERYTHING, including the master cylinder itself. This means it would come with a professionally-manufactured adapter bracket (most likely precision water jetted), all stainless-steel hardware (clevis, bolts, nuts, etc.), pre-bent-and-flared brake line, a new replacement fluid reservoir and tubing, and all brake fittings. You would receive the main unit pre-assembled, like you see in the original post. My plan is to also take my car apart again - and test every single kit I would produce, so I could guarantee that the kit I sent out is working perfectly. Of course, this will take some time and planning!

I could also include an instruction manual, full of pictures and descriptions on what to do and how to do it. As for tools, all you need are basic hand tools, and preferably a friend. Or, a local shop could do it as well without too much trouble. :icon17: Like I said before, if I were to re-do this prototype and make a finalized version, I would know how to avoid lots of headaches and missteps I took in making this work. I also want to keep testing my current prototype and make sure it works for many miles to come, under any driving conditions.

Anyhoo, let me know guys! It's something I'm really considering offering to the370z crowd! I know that this install has really evolved beyond a simple DIY, so I figure I can help put something together and we can all be happy. I'll also try to find time later by the end of this week to sit down and post some pictures detailing little niggles and stuff about the install and whatnot. Also, if there are any questions or anything I missed, please let me know!

Do it! :tup: Sign me up. :D

Sign me up for sure! Unless it craps out in the upcoming weeks on you ;) JK! :tup:

Well my CMC is out again. Only one track day this time. I found this one from AP racing.

http://www.apracing.com/product_deta...4623_type.aspx

sign me up!

something to double check when making a kit would be the flares on your short piece of hard line. i looked at the picture full sized and it appears to be single flared?

SZ Clutch & Flywheel Kits for Z33 (07-08), Z34 & V36

Aren't many people running tilton already?

But f yeah, much more stout piece and def worth it. Lots of neat DIY going around lately, props to OP.

Well I guess the diff would be universal fitment vs a proprietary fitment like the SZP has? If thats the case, neato!

Yep, that is correct, it is a single flare. All the connections and couplers have/are done via straight single flares, and I went over it with a mechanic and he verified that as well. He also mentioned that if I did a bubble flare, it would have the same effect as a single flare, but I could do those as well if people would rather have it that way. :tup:

That would be for the Tilton clutch SLAVE cylinder (the one inside the transmission), my friend. :) Joe@ZSpeed was the only person I know of that was doing design into an aftermarket master cylinder, but I don't think there have been new updates on that.

Also, it is highly recommended that people change the slave cylinder to aftermarket. Those usually break first. :ugh2:

So how much drive time have you put on this setup so far?

Also I know of two shops that have been working on deleting the SC and going to a FORK style setup.

I've been driving the car for at least 300 or so miles (gonna be updating the original post tonight), and the CMC has ZERO issues. No leaks, and no funny noises or feelings. It's as solid as it was when just installed. :tup: I have also been driving the car hard as well - launching the car and slamming gears to really work it. I have total confidence in the setup now. It's a great feeling man.

Fork style setup, eh? Interesting. Do you think it would give a reliability benefit over an aftermarket CSC? Sure would be easier to service and replace, for sure.

The fork setup is great. The price is what scares me. Even then it's not going to be that awful. But definitely a long term piece that will out last any other SC.

IM Interested in your fix. But I know I could do the same as you.

Single flare double flare and bubble flare are all different. The double flare a more durrable end less likely to crack or split on install like single flares do. Neither single or double can be used in the place of a bouble flare. If the line had a bubble flare then it needs a bubble flare, if not then single or double works, but per my hydraulics and automation class double flares should be used in hydraulics application because the flare is less likely to split and has a more reliable seal. Single flare is usually reserved for low pressure aplications like the gas line for your stove, and when the material is to brittle to form a double flare.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

Ahhhh, derp, Master, like title says. Quite an ambitious project. Keep on trucking mate. Hoping that I never need to touch my master :ughdance: Would be a sexy match for the tilton CSC for sure. Yeah, finals....I hear ya, just completed my bachelors, I get rewarded with...more school! Get yours bro!

Oh you definitely could Spohn. I would highly recommend you doing it - my clutch has never felt better. :driving:

I've updated the original post by the way, fellow forum members. I'll be doing a step-by-step post soon, and I'll update my driving experiences both in the second post in a bit! But if you are impatient, just know - the CMC feels amazing. :tiphat:

Any new updates? How is it holding up?!

I am happy to report, with my car sitting pretty at 33672 miles (total 1647 miles driven), my aftermarket CMC is holding up perfectly. :tup:

Sorry for the lack of updates - exam week rolled around hard and fast, and it's taking away lots of Z time. But I definitely wanted to keep in touch and let you and others know how it's holding up.

The CMC feels exactly the same as when I put it in - firm and linear, with zero dead play. It's everything I've hoped it would be. I've done standing launches, power shifts, and plenty of spirited driving, and its held up like a champ. I broke my diff mount last week, so I haven't driven it as much and as hard lately.

I completely trust the CMC to last the rest of the car's life. I'm sure it's going to hold up perfect. If I ever need to replace it though - that would be tough. ABS would have to come out again, and the bracket would have to be remachined, since I had to grind the heads of the bolts off for the bracket to sit flush. I'm debating if I ever have to do that - I may drill some relief holes into the frame so I can keep the head of the bolts on the bracket.

But all is well! :tiphat:

Updates?

Any updates to this?

So is this going into production?

I purchased a setup like this from GTM works great don't how available it is though. I was the tester for it so I got this, a tilton racing csc for my osg grand touring, and a clutch pedal stop so I don't have to worry about any of it ever again. I went with the big bore master so it engages at the top of travel and is a very quick clutch but it's heavy(I mean really heavy don't go with the larger bore unless race car). I swear after changing out everything it feels like a cable clutch I mean you can practically hear the clutch engage through the pedal. the difference in clutch feel is out of this world and since the factory restrictor in the csc is gone when you drop the clutch it drops hard.

thanks

Anything ever come from this? Anyone know of a reliable DIY or option with all the info needed to complete? Thanks!

:werd: what he said

Nope!.

I am almost wondering if you could get this one: http://www.zspeedperformance.com/ZSp...er-ZSP3004.htm, it already looks like it has a mounting bracket that would work with our car. So the only thing you would have to do is modify the ABS bracket maybe?