Fuel starvation fix...possibly. Suggestions?

synolimit · 10-03-2013, 02:12 AM

I found a guy that fixed the fuel starvation issue. Very simply he cut his tank in half and welded it closed haha. But this got me thinking of a fix, and here it is.

We need a way to keep fuel on the right side of the tank while turning right. What I thought of was a trap door. The distance from the top of the tank to the middle of the tank is not that high. What would need done is someone get a tank and cut it in half. Take a measurement of the middle and have a piece CnC machined to the size. I would then install hinges to the plate that was cut. On the hinge I would install very powerfully neodymium earth magnets. All you'd have to do is pop the fuel pump out, slip the door in, and let it stick to the tank. You'd be able to slide it into place to the center to close the gap and it'd only swing open when turning left.

Now some things to think about. What should the door be made of? Metal on metal contact will be happening in the tank, so should it be rubberized some how? Maybe the door should be made of plastic like a gas can, then weights be bolted onto the bottom of the door since it will be lighter. Also what about a baffle more than a door? When filling up with gas will fuel be able to make it to the left side of the tank if a solid piece? There's probably no way to seal it 100% so maybe that's enough for fuel to leak over when fueling. These are just questions I came up with. Here's some crude pics.

phunk · 10-03-2013, 04:30 AM

There are many obstructions in that area of the tank and the overall cutaway shape is very complex. There is also a longitudal baffle to be dealt with.

It's a good idea in theory but I have my doubts it could be done real world.

I don't think magnets will be strong enough to handle the weight of fuel pushing it.. It's very heavy.

I have always wondered how much it could possibly help though if someone were to try cramming the area with fuel cell foam. It will not fix it 100% but it might help enough to make a difference. This, and your idea, could potentially make filling the tank a bit of a hassle as I imagine the gas pump stopping short and having to wait a moment for fuel to transfer through (the filler is on the same side as the pump), then filling more... Possibly several times, or maybe not at all. Could be worth a shot for how cheap it is?

Anyway, if you want to try your idea..I could try my best to make you a template from my R&D tank.. But it will have to be a ways off to one side to avoid all the items in the fuel tank.

I think a permenantly attached wall with one way flaps would be a more successful twist of your idea.

I dunno... Food for thought anyway. I attached a picture for you, not sure if it will work right from my iPad.

phunk · 10-03-2013, 04:35 AM

Another pic to help visualize the floor plan you're up against.

SPOHN · 10-03-2013, 10:35 AM

R&D is done per Phunk. Support the sponsors here. Your getting into a lot of what ifs and R&D yourself that will be a Hugh headache. Phunk system is flawless and priced right with endless options to upgrade for future builds.

Megan370z · 10-03-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

R&D is done per Phunk. Support the sponsors here. Your getting into a lot of what ifs and R&D yourself that will be a Hugh headache. Phunk system is flawless and priced right with endless options to upgrade for future builds.

+1

Knowing myself I did wanted to relatively copy his setup which wouldnt have been too complicated but I ended avoiding having a bunch of headache on the setup.

synolimit · 10-03-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunk

There are many obstructions in that area of the tank and the overall cutaway shape is very complex. There is also a longitudal baffle to be dealt with.

It's a good idea in theory but I have my doubts it could be done real world.

I don't think magnets will be strong enough to handle the weight of fuel pushing it.. It's very heavy.

I have always wondered how much it could possibly help though if someone were to try cramming the area with fuel cell foam. It will not fix it 100% but it might help enough to make a difference. This, and your idea, could potentially make filling the tank a bit of a hassle as I imagine the gas pump stopping short and having to wait a moment for fuel to transfer through (the filler is on the same side as the pump), then filling more... Possibly several times, or maybe not at all. Could be worth a shot for how cheap it is?

Anyway, if you want to try your idea..I could try my best to make you a template from my R&D tank.. But it will have to be a ways off to one side to avoid all the items in the fuel tank.

I think a permenantly attached wall with one way flaps would be a more successful twist of your idea.

I dunno... Food for thought anyway. I attached a picture for you, not sure if it will work right from my iPad.

I saw the baffle in there. I'd just cut it out since the door will act as something in there now. Although if filling is an issue maybe that inch or so left open would be a nice leak point. But if its to much than it'd have to go.

Magnets should be strong enough as long as the hinges can move very freely. Like blowing on the plate freely. That should take any weight out of the equation.

I see that stuff in there now. I don't think my 13 has all that. I'll have to go look. But if it does the hinge and magnet should slide right up to the piece since the hinge will make the door stick out further allowing clearance.

Your idea would be better but I'm trying to avoid cutting and getting the tank full of shrapnel.

I'd take a templet though if offered. Or I buy a tank at the yard for $200.

SPOHN · 10-03-2013, 02:28 PM

Magnets to do what? Remember now you want your car safe in case of a roll or left upside down.

1slow370 · 10-03-2013, 02:44 PM

he's saying that magnets probably aren't going to be enough to hold the flap when when 50 lbs of fuel comes sloshing up against it. Is the fuel tank even magnetic? if it's an austenetic grade your boned.

It's semi-magnetic so they will stick but with reduced pull strength

synolimit · 10-03-2013, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

Magnets to do what? Remember now you want your car safe in case of a roll or left upside down.

To hold the door to the top of the inside of the fuel tank. I don't see how it'd be unsafe locked in a closed fuel tank.

synolimit · 10-03-2013, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

he's saying that magnets probably aren't going to be enough to hold the flap when when 50 lbs of fuel comes sloshing up against it. Is the fuel tank even magnetic? if it's an austenetic grade your boned.

It's semi-magnetic so they will stick but with reduced pull strength

I disagree. It could be a million pounds hitting it. The door is on a hinge. If you left your front door open and wind blew in, what happens? The door just slams open and hits the door stopper, the door doesn't break off the door frame. Neodymium magnets are very strong and the tanks steel. The door will only weigh a few ounces or grams.

synolimit · 10-03-2013, 03:30 PM

Fyi 1 1x1" n52 could hold almost all the fuel in the tank!

synolimit · 10-03-2013, 03:50 PM

Just so there's no confusion!

Door bolted to hinge, magnet that can hold an *** load of weight bolted to hinge, magnet stuck to inside of gas tank because its steel.

1slow370 · 10-03-2013, 03:55 PM

Ok step back a bit you are talking about a one way hinge right like the flapper only opens towards the passenger side? so when you turn leftt the fuel goes to the passenger side and when you turn right it is trapped there with the fuel pump? so when you turn right the weight of the fuel will be pushing against the flaper.

Cuz if the flapper swings both ways it's just going to let the fuel go back to the other side and the car will starve

1slow370 · 10-03-2013, 03:59 PM

and like i said the tank is semi magentic so the pul strength of the magnet could be only half of its actual strength.

synolimit · 10-03-2013, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Ok step back a bit you are talking about a one way hinge right like the flapper only opens towards the passenger side? so when you turn leftt the fuel goes to the passenger side and when you turn right it is trapped there with the fuel pump? so when you turn right the weight of the fuel will be pushing against the flaper.

Cuz if the flapper swings both ways it's just going to let the fuel go back to the other side and the car will starve

Doesnt have to be a one way. The bottom of the door will hit the tank, it won't be able to close anymore and yes everything else you said is correct. When going straight the weight of the door will make it hang touching the tank and the fuel will help to close the door. Look at the first pic I drew. The door will hang resting on the tank. The magnets will be mounted more towards the center while the bottom of the door will be more towards the passenger side of the car letting gravity work for us since the tank tapers down from the center.

10-03-2013, 02:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
synolimit A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2013 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 5,051 Drives: 2013 Silver 370z Rep Power: 3389	Fuel starvation fix...possibly. Suggestions? I found a guy that fixed the fuel starvation issue. Very simply he cut his tank in half and welded it closed haha. But this got me thinking of a fix, and here it is. We need a way to keep fuel on the right side of the tank while turning right. What I thought of was a trap door. The distance from the top of the tank to the middle of the tank is not that high. What would need done is someone get a tank and cut it in half. Take a measurement of the middle and have a piece CnC machined to the size. I would then install hinges to the plate that was cut. On the hinge I would install very powerfully neodymium earth magnets. All you'd have to do is pop the fuel pump out, slip the door in, and let it stick to the tank. You'd be able to slide it into place to the center to close the gap and it'd only swing open when turning left. Now some things to think about. What should the door be made of? Metal on metal contact will be happening in the tank, so should it be rubberized some how? Maybe the door should be made of plastic like a gas can, then weights be bolted onto the bottom of the door since it will be lighter. Also what about a baffle more than a door? When filling up with gas will fuel be able to make it to the left side of the tank if a solid piece? There's probably no way to seal it 100% so maybe that's enough for fuel to leak over when fueling. These are just questions I came up with. Here's some crude pics. __________________ 13 370z-

10-03-2013, 10:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 45 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	R&D is done per Phunk. Support the sponsors here. Your getting into a lot of what ifs and R&D yourself that will be a Hugh headache. Phunk system is flawless and priced right with endless options to upgrade for future builds. Megan370z likes this. __________________

10-03-2013, 02:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 45 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	Magnets to do what? Remember now you want your car safe in case of a roll or left upside down. __________________

10-03-2013, 02:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	he's saying that magnets probably aren't going to be enough to hold the flap when when 50 lbs of fuel comes sloshing up against it. Is the fuel tank even magnetic? if it's an austenetic grade your boned. It's semi-magnetic so they will stick but with reduced pull strength __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 10-03-2013 at 02:49 PM.

10-03-2013, 03:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
synolimit A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2013 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 5,051 Drives: 2013 Silver 370z Rep Power: 3389	Fyi 1 1x1" n52 could hold almost all the fuel in the tank! __________________ 13 370z-

10-03-2013, 03:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
synolimit A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2013 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 5,051 Drives: 2013 Silver 370z Rep Power: 3389	Just so there's no confusion! Door bolted to hinge, magnet that can hold an *** load of weight bolted to hinge, magnet stuck to inside of gas tank because its steel. __________________ 13 370z-

10-03-2013, 03:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Ok step back a bit you are talking about a one way hinge right like the flapper only opens towards the passenger side? so when you turn leftt the fuel goes to the passenger side and when you turn right it is trapped there with the fuel pump? so when you turn right the weight of the fuel will be pushing against the flaper. Cuz if the flapper swings both ways it's just going to let the fuel go back to the other side and the car will starve __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

10-03-2013, 03:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	and like i said the tank is semi magentic so the pul strength of the magnet could be only half of its actual strength. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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