370Z oil consumption

WarmAndSCSI · 10-31-2010, 05:56 PM

So much misinformation in this thread. No piston rings take THOUSANDS of miles to break in, at least that should never be the case. With an OEM engine that has plateau-honed cylinder walls and pre-lapped piston rings, your rings and cylinder walls will break in within a matter of seconds. Really all you're doing in the first couple hundred miles is ensuring the peaks of the oiling cross hatch are flattened all the way (the plateau honing process gets most of this done) and that all of the valleys are cleaned out.

If you're having oil consumption past 1000 miles or so, there is likely something wrong that will rear its ugly head later. An engine has only so much "time" for a proper break-in to occur - after that window, your cylinder walls will likely be permanently glazed to some extent.

OEM-recommended break-in procedure is just CYA on their part.

That said, who knows where the root cause of the oil consumption problem on the VHR lies... Nissan will likely never admit to their fault. But I don't understand the point of a bunch of people who have probably never even touched the inside of an engine throwing around a bunch of conjecture. I'm fine if a bunch of experienced engine builders and tuners like myself want to have an intelligent, experience-based discussion proposing what the root cause might be, but what's going on in all of these oil recommendation and oil consumption threads is just asinine.

VCuomo · 11-01-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmAndSCSI

So much misinformation in this thread. No piston rings take THOUSANDS of miles to break in, at least that should never be the case. With an OEM engine that has plateau-honed cylinder walls and pre-lapped piston rings, your rings and cylinder walls will break in within a matter of seconds. Really all you're doing in the first couple hundred miles is ensuring the peaks of the oiling cross hatch are flattened all the way (the plateau honing process gets most of this done) and that all of the valleys are cleaned out.

If you're having oil consumption past 1000 miles or so, there is likely something wrong that will rear its ugly head later. An engine has only so much "time" for a proper break-in to occur - after that window, your cylinder walls will likely be permanently glazed to some extent.

OEM-recommended break-in procedure is just CYA on their part.

That said, who knows where the root cause of the oil consumption problem on the VHR lies... Nissan will likely never admit to their fault. But I don't understand the point of a bunch of people who have probably never even touched the inside of an engine throwing around a bunch of conjecture. I'm fine if a bunch of experienced engine builders and tuners like myself want to have an intelligent, experience-based discussion proposing what the root cause might be, but what's going on in all of these oil recommendation and oil consumption threads is just asinine.

What?!? How dare you be sensible! My God man, this is the Internet after all!!! You can't expect the voice of reason to carry the day - that will never do!

FricFrac · 11-16-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmAndSCSI

So much misinformation in this thread. No piston rings take THOUSANDS of miles to break in, at least that should never be the case. With an OEM engine that has plateau-honed cylinder walls and pre-lapped piston rings, your rings and cylinder walls will break in within a matter of seconds. Really all you're doing in the first couple hundred miles is ensuring the peaks of the oiling cross hatch are flattened all the way (the plateau honing process gets most of this done) and that all of the valleys are cleaned out.

If you're having oil consumption past 1000 miles or so, there is likely something wrong that will rear its ugly head later. An engine has only so much "time" for a proper break-in to occur - after that window, your cylinder walls will likely be permanently glazed to some extent.

OEM-recommended break-in procedure is just CYA on their part.

That said, who knows where the root cause of the oil consumption problem on the VHR lies... Nissan will likely never admit to their fault. But I don't understand the point of a bunch of people who have probably never even touched the inside of an engine throwing around a bunch of conjecture. I'm fine if a bunch of experienced engine builders and tuners like myself want to have an intelligent, experience-based discussion proposing what the root cause might be, but what's going on in all of these oil recommendation and oil consumption threads is just asinine.

..and saying that your rings are seated within a few seconds is just as much misinformation. Sure if you are cutting limbs off a tree with a chainsaw you can go through them in a few seconds but when you are wearing in rings which are very hard against your cylinder wall that are suppose to be resistant to wear you are going to "seat" in somewhat but definately not fully. You are basically machining materials which are resistant to wear and it doesn't take seconds. Show me ONE profesional racing team that races a car after a few seconds of break in.... not qualifying but a full race.

I agree with you that there is a lot of misinformation in this thread but going to the other extreme doesn't help.... there is enough exageration going on here. There are a hand full of motors that do suffer from oil consumption - just like any other manufacture.

For the record my oil consumption has significantly reduced in 15,000Km...

TypeOne · 11-16-2010, 04:27 PM

Off topic but my car just turned 14k miles and with the 2500 miles on it since the last change, looks like it has used less than 1mm of oil off the stick.

Seems pretty good to me... *whew*

WarmAndSCSI · 11-16-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

..and saying that your rings are seated within a few seconds is just as much misinformation. Sure if you are cutting limbs off a tree with a chainsaw you can go through them in a few seconds but when you are wearing in rings which are very hard against your cylinder wall that are suppose to be resistant to wear you are going to "seat" in somewhat but definately not fully. You are basically machining materials which are resistant to wear and it doesn't take seconds. Show me ONE profesional racing team that races a car after a few seconds of break in.... not qualifying but a full race.

I agree with you that there is a lot of misinformation in this thread but going to the other extreme doesn't help.... there is enough exageration going on here. There are a hand full of motors that do suffer from oil consumption - just like any other manufacture.

For the record my oil consumption has significantly reduced in 15,000Km...

Any engine with plateau honed cylinder walls and pre-lapped piston rings - all of which have been properly cleaned before assembly - is essentially broken in the second you fire it up. As soon as the engine is flushed of whatever residual loose metal that was still present, it's ready to go. I can point you in the direction of hundreds of drag racing teams that break in their engines for the first time with full-out quarter mile passes. This is even the case for multi-thousand-horsepower top fuel engines. In fact, it's quite essential that such engines get run full-out very soon after they are fired up for the first time.

The wear-in items you have to be concerned about during break-in of a properly prepared race engine do not include the piston rings and cylinder walls. (think more of camshafts, oil pumps, and other machined parts that have high-load contact with other metal components which do not use bearings but only a hydrostatic layer of oil). You explained yourself how hard both of materials in the piston ring-to-cylinder wall interface are - it should be easy to understand why a few hundred or thousand miles of break in SHOULD NOT cause any kind of measurable wear on them when they're designed to last hundreds of thousands of miles

Engine break-in is predetermined by how an engine is assembled. Speaking of a modern OEM-built engine, you'll find they are built to not need any significant break-in period. I'll do a nice analysis of the next OEM shortblock I receive for a build... should be in a few weeks. I can guarantee you that the cylinder walls will be plateau honed and very clean, along with the piston rings being pre-lapped.

cossie1600 · 10-31-2010, 06:42 PM

Most of these engines are machine built. I wonder if it is a certain VIN range that is having trouble.

ZeeYouLater · 11-15-2010, 01:44 PM

0W60 was advertised and sold in germany some years ago (6) ..sorry ******** product

6SPD_FTW · 11-16-2010, 08:10 AM

I am at 28,000 miles, currently. Actually awaiting the oil analysis (to be done today @ Blackstone). Last oil report had an elevation in lead (which they attributed to a bearing streak...which makes me a little nervous).

I have used Castrol Syntec 0W-30 since 5000 miles and have had ZERO oil consumption beyond 1500 miles. Lower cold viscosity doesn't affect consumption that much on cold starts because it gets COLD here (single digits during the winter).

Just throwing that out there.

Late,
Trav

alcorrea · 12-15-2010, 09:52 AM

I had my short block installed 2 months ago, after 1200 miles I'm missing 2 quarts of oil so this short block thing is not the fix.
I'm taking her back on Friday to see what's going to happen next. I only have 11,000 miles and is been a nightmare.

6MT · 12-15-2010, 09:56 AM

Mine stopped "using" oil around the 5000 mile mark. I'm now at just about 9000 miles and it doesn't use any oil at all. These oil "usage" stories just seem to be bad luck to me.

Mine is just perfect.

Dreezy562 · 12-16-2010, 12:28 PM

Well I checked my dip stick and Its smack dead in the middle after 500 miles... I didn't check what was in there before I left the dealer but I'm going to check at 800 miles and if there is a significant drop

onzedge · 12-16-2010, 12:51 PM

Does anyone know if there is an accurate cross-reference between mm's on the dipstick and quarts?

Z2nv · 12-16-2010, 03:12 PM

service bulletin: NTB10-090
vehicles biult before: JN1AZ4FH(*)AM303670/ 05-APR-2010
If your vehicle was built before than, then go get it checked out!
the new short block has fixed the problem, the oil scapper piston ring is a different design/material. ive done 3 of these short blocks since ive worked at nissan, and the oil scapper ring is a completely new design, hope this helps.

PS- the engine in break in mode will burn oil!! until 5000-7000 km's

onzedge · 12-16-2010, 03:37 PM

So, I think that I may have an issue with oil consumption. At 12,400 miles now on the car, I am using about 1.25 to 1.50 quarts per 3,000 miles. I just started using the "measure the dipstick" method as specified in the TSB so I am not yet sure about my consumption against the chart in the TSB.

I am a bit concerned though about warranty. I have changed the oil 4 times so far -- the first change was performed at the dealer (at 2,000) and the other three by me. Nissan Ester was used the first two and Redline 5-30 the second two. Oh yes, I also change the filter at the same time as oil (K&N or PureOne). Is there going to be a problem, warranty-wise, because I performed my own oil changes?

I also have a GTM Motorsports 19 row oil cooler installed.

I appreciate your comments. Thanks and have a great day.

IDZRVIT · 12-16-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onzedge

So, I think that I may have an issue with oil consumption. At 12,400 miles now on the car, I am using about 1.25 to 1.50 quarts per 3,000 miles. I just started using the "measure the dipstick" method as specified in the TSB so I am not yet sure about my consumption against the chart in the TSB.

I am a bit concerned though about warranty. I have changed the oil 4 times so far -- the first change was performed at the dealer (at 2,000) and the other three by me. Nissan Ester was used the first two and Redline 5-30 the second two. Oh yes, I also change the filter at the same time as oil (K&N or PureOne). Is there going to be a problem, warranty-wise, because I performed my own oil changes?

I also have a GTM Motorsports 19 row oil cooler installed.

I appreciate your comments. Thanks and have a great day.

You don't have an oil consumption issue.

10-31-2010, 05:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
WarmAndSCSI A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 1,671 Drives: '08 Evo X \| '10 370Z Rep Power: 18	So much misinformation in this thread. No piston rings take THOUSANDS of miles to break in, at least that should never be the case. With an OEM engine that has plateau-honed cylinder walls and pre-lapped piston rings, your rings and cylinder walls will break in within a matter of seconds. Really all you're doing in the first couple hundred miles is ensuring the peaks of the oiling cross hatch are flattened all the way (the plateau honing process gets most of this done) and that all of the valleys are cleaned out. If you're having oil consumption past 1000 miles or so, there is likely something wrong that will rear its ugly head later. An engine has only so much "time" for a proper break-in to occur - after that window, your cylinder walls will likely be permanently glazed to some extent. OEM-recommended break-in procedure is just CYA on their part. That said, who knows where the root cause of the oil consumption problem on the VHR lies... Nissan will likely never admit to their fault. But I don't understand the point of a bunch of people who have probably never even touched the inside of an engine throwing around a bunch of conjecture. I'm fine if a bunch of experienced engine builders and tuners like myself want to have an intelligent, experience-based discussion proposing what the root cause might be, but what's going on in all of these oil recommendation and oil consumption threads is just asinine. __________________ '10 PW 370Z 7AT - wife's car - Project Raspberry Cheesecake '08 Evo X - built motor+trans \| BB-X @ 32 psi \| CH3OH \| self-built+tuned - ??? WHP '01 Galant V6 - built motor \| GT35R \| self-built+tuned - 550+ WHP (retired) Last edited by WarmAndSCSI; 10-31-2010 at 06:00 PM.

11-15-2010, 01:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
ZeeYouLater Base Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Swiss Posts: 39 Drives: 370z Roadster Rep Power: 16	0W60 was advertised and sold in germany some years ago (6) ..sorry ******** product __________________ ___________________________ 7AT. NAVI. 19". (Sport and Touring Package)

12-15-2010, 09:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
alcorrea Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Redondo Beach CA Posts: 17 Drives: nissan 370z white Rep Power: 16	I had my short block installed 2 months ago, after 1200 miles I'm missing 2 quarts of oil so this short block thing is not the fix. I'm taking her back on Friday to see what's going to happen next. I only have 11,000 miles and is been a nightmare. __________________

12-15-2010, 09:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
6MT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: ITU Zone 2 Posts: 22,459 Drives: Reliant Robin Rep Power: 1791	Mine stopped "using" oil around the 5000 mile mark. I'm now at just about 9000 miles and it doesn't use any oil at all. These oil "usage" stories just seem to be bad luck to me. Mine is just perfect. __________________ Andrew 2009 370Z Sport/Touring 6MT sold 2013 Honda Civic Si coupe D/D

12-16-2010, 12:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
onzedge A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Battle Lake MN Age: 64 Posts: 183,964 Drives: 370Z 240Z Rep Power: 2684737	Does anyone know if there is an accurate cross-reference between mm's on the dipstick and quarts? __________________ Koni\|Swift\|Michelin\|Motordyne\|Berk\|RJM Performance\|Gates\|SPL\|Motul\|Technafit\|Ate Super Blue\|Hawk Tommy Kaira\|Momo\|Optima\|Hella\|Hotchkis\|Red Line\|ZSpeed\|Stillen\|B&M\|H&R

11-16-2010, 04:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
TypeOne A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 2,682 Drives: BSM 370 Rep Power: 1851	Off topic but my car just turned 14k miles and with the 2500 miles on it since the last change, looks like it has used less than 1mm of oil off the stick. Seems pretty good to me... whew

10-31-2010, 06:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	Most of these engines are machine built. I wonder if it is a certain VIN range that is having trouble.

11-16-2010, 08:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
6SPD_FTW Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bristol, VA Posts: 59 Drives: 09 370Z Bl 6MT Rep Power: 17	I am at 28,000 miles, currently. Actually awaiting the oil analysis (to be done today @ Blackstone). Last oil report had an elevation in lead (which they attributed to a bearing streak...which makes me a little nervous). I have used Castrol Syntec 0W-30 since 5000 miles and have had ZERO oil consumption beyond 1500 miles. Lower cold viscosity doesn't affect consumption that much on cold starts because it gets COLD here (single digits during the winter). Just throwing that out there. Late, Trav

12-16-2010, 12:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
Dreezy562 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long beach, ca Posts: 419 Drives: 40th Rep Power: 15	Well I checked my dip stick and Its smack dead in the middle after 500 miles... I didn't check what was in there before I left the dealer but I'm going to check at 800 miles and if there is a significant drop

12-16-2010, 03:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
Z2nv Base Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 65 Drives: 2010 370z Rep Power: 15	service bulletin: NTB10-090 vehicles biult before: JN1AZ4FH(*)AM303670/ 05-APR-2010 If your vehicle was built before than, then go get it checked out! the new short block has fixed the problem, the oil scapper piston ring is a different design/material. ive done 3 of these short blocks since ive worked at nissan, and the oil scapper ring is a completely new design, hope this helps. PS- the engine in break in mode will burn oil!! until 5000-7000 km's __________________ STILLEN G3-STILLEN EXHAUST NISMO HDRS COBB TUNE ADV1 deepkoncave 10.1.........2010 370z Sportpackage 6mt..........2004 MustangCobra SVT 495whp - Forsale..............2004 G35 sedan 6mt VIP status - sold.

12-16-2010, 03:37 PM	#14 (permalink)
onzedge A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Battle Lake MN Age: 64 Posts: 183,964 Drives: 370Z 240Z Rep Power: 2684737	So, I think that I may have an issue with oil consumption. At 12,400 miles now on the car, I am using about 1.25 to 1.50 quarts per 3,000 miles. I just started using the "measure the dipstick" method as specified in the TSB so I am not yet sure about my consumption against the chart in the TSB. I am a bit concerned though about warranty. I have changed the oil 4 times so far -- the first change was performed at the dealer (at 2,000) and the other three by me. Nissan Ester was used the first two and Redline 5-30 the second two. Oh yes, I also change the filter at the same time as oil (K&N or PureOne). Is there going to be a problem, warranty-wise, because I performed my own oil changes? I also have a GTM Motorsports 19 row oil cooler installed. I appreciate your comments. Thanks and have a great day. __________________ Koni\|Swift\|Michelin\|Motordyne\|Berk\|RJM Performance\|Gates\|SPL\|Motul\|Technafit\|Ate Super Blue\|Hawk Tommy Kaira\|Momo\|Optima\|Hella\|Hotchkis\|Red Line\|ZSpeed\|Stillen\|B&M\|H&R

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