Review of Mishimoto Thermostatic Oil Sandwich Plate

derraj06 · 09-10-2013, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mishimoto

Sorry about that! My email address is tsylvester@mishimoto.com.

Email sent. Awaiting. Reply.

I will have a final diagnostic of the engine on Friday to those who may be curious.

And as a side note if you search "mishimoto thermostatic plate" or any reasonable derivative this thread is on top of the google search. Thanks the370z family for taking interest in this matter!

derraj06 · 09-10-2013, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLSTR

Glad I got the Z1 Kit/25row/Thermo-plate and not ANYTHING else. Buy from a vendor who actually supports the marque rather than exploit it.

OP no eff'n mercy for this 'firm' who sold you this and made you post up here to get basic CUSTOMER SERVICE. Total BS. I hope your motor is OK!

I support Z1 with a lot of my needs. As someone who puts a lot of research into decisions on cars (I work at a tier one supplier to ensure quality products ship) I feel a bit naive after having this happen. I never found any reason to doubt the product while looking at the web. That's why I have posted my warning because my car is has 22k miles and I may be making a major overhaul over a mis assembly.

Mishimoto · 09-10-2013, 06:39 PM

My apologies again for the typo on the email address. The correct email address is: tsylvester@mishimoto.com I assure you that this was simply a typo. Mishimoto is a reputable and well known company with four locations worldwide… we would not intentionally mistype an email address simply to avoid speaking with our customers. We value our customer feedback and input – which is the reason I’m on this forum and attempting to address concerns within 24 hours of the original post.

I’d like to address a few specific comments that have been made.

We do not “steal other’s designs”. We have a team of full-time mechanical engineers in our New Castle HQ just for R&D, product design, and testing. I encourage you to take a look at this video which highlights the design process of this actual product: Mishimoto Engineering Behind the Scenes - From Concept to Completion - YouTube

A statement was made that we have ‘zero quality control’. In fact, most of the products we use every day (Apple, Samsung, Nissan) are manufactured or use components manufactured in China. But unlike many companies, Mishimoto has our own facility in China with a team of Quality Control Engineers who conduct rigorous on-site inspection for every order. I’ll post some photos of our China office below for you to check out!

A comment was made questioning our Lifetime Warranty. The process is quite straightforward: simply email us a photo of the defect and a copy of the receipt and we will take care of it.

This is manufacturing, and as with any manufacturing, there can be a very small percentage of defects that may still get through. We put many controls and inspections in place to limit the amount of defects, and we stand behind the product with our Lifetime Warranty. We have thousands of very satisfied customers – it is very unfortunate that you seemed to have received a defective unit, which is why we are taking the time here to work with you and attempt to address the issue.

Now that I’ve addressed the above concerns, let me share with you the feedback from our engineers after meeting to discuss this issue.

It appears from your photo that the thermostat plug was not fully tightened. The way this product is designed is such that the plug will ‘bottom out’ against the surface of the sandwich plate when fully tightened. This assures the correct amount of interference/deformation at the O-ring to achieve a proper seal – and at the same time assures that it cannot damage the O-ring by ‘over-tightening’. Yes, there is a countersink upon which the O-ring seals. We do not just sandwich it between two flat plates.
You mentioned that 10 lbs does not seem like very much. The spec for tightening is actually 10 ft/lbs, which is quite high. Basically, it just needs to be bottomed-out against the sandwich plate and that will be sufficient.

Thanks,
Tyler Sylvester

Mishimoto · 09-10-2013, 06:40 PM

Here are the images of our office in China.

derraj06 · 09-10-2013, 06:59 PM

Have not made any claims as to the quality of the brand. Take that up with the others in the thread. I am only speaking from my personal experience and this is the only product of yours I have tried.

To the comment that the cap was not tight when I room this picture. I realize that as there is an oring sticking out the side. I am looking for my picture from when I installed to to prove it was snug. I did not tamper with this unit in any way before installing this plate because I did not want to chance a problem like this if it was not correctly tightened.

The pictures above are in a parking lot shortly after the car was stopped. I took them myself before disassembling the part.

Speaking with a co worker if mine who is a Mechanical engineer of 20+ years of experience in the automotive industry he felt 10ft/lbs was not a lot of force given a 370z engine can reach 100psi easily before it is warm. That is the basis of that comment. I have already stated I am an electrical engineer and do not claim to have a full knowledge of mechanical principles.

To the comment that the part is countersunk. I have seen pictures to show it is and I am not claiming they are not. Any comments I have made when it was being discussed previously were based on the fact I don't recall there being a countersink there when I was inspecting the car.

The facts of this are that I installed your companies product in good faith is was a correctly assembled and tested product and it failed within a week of install. I make no other claims as to the origins of its design or assembly.

critical · 09-10-2013, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mishimoto

My apologies again for the typo on the email address. The correct email address is: tsylvester@mishimoto.com I assure you that this was simply a typo. Mishimoto is a reputable and well known company with four locations worldwide… we would not intentionally mistype an email address simply to avoid speaking with our customers. We value our customer feedback and input – which is the reason I’m on this forum and attempting to address concerns within 24 hours of the original post.

I’d like to address a few specific comments that have been made.

We do not “steal other’s designs”. We have a team of full-time mechanical engineers in our New Castle HQ just for R&D, product design, and testing. I encourage you to take a look at this video which highlights the design process of this actual product: Mishimoto Engineering Behind the Scenes - From Concept to Completion - YouTube

A statement was made that we have ‘zero quality control’. In fact, most of the products we use every day (Apple, Samsung, Nissan) are manufactured or use components manufactured in China. But unlike many companies, Mishimoto has our own facility in China with a team of Quality Control Engineers who conduct rigorous on-site inspection for every order. I’ll post some photos of our China office below for you to check out!

A comment was made questioning our Lifetime Warranty. The process is quite straightforward: simply email us a photo of the defect and a copy of the receipt and we will take care of it.

This is manufacturing, and as with any manufacturing, there can be a very small percentage of defects that may still get through. We put many controls and inspections in place to limit the amount of defects, and we stand behind the product with our Lifetime Warranty. We have thousands of very satisfied customers – it is very unfortunate that you seemed to have received a defective unit, which is why we are taking the time here to work with you and attempt to address the issue.

Now that I’ve addressed the above concerns, let me share with you the feedback from our engineers after meeting to discuss this issue.

It appears from your photo that the thermostat plug was not fully tightened. The way this product is designed is such that the plug will ‘bottom out’ against the surface of the sandwich plate when fully tightened. This assures the correct amount of interference/deformation at the O-ring to achieve a proper seal – and at the same time assures that it cannot damage the O-ring by ‘over-tightening’. Yes, there is a countersink upon which the O-ring seals. We do not just sandwich it between two flat plates.
You mentioned that 10 lbs does not seem like very much. The spec for tightening is actually 10 ft/lbs, which is quite high. Basically, it just needs to be bottomed-out against the sandwich plate and that will be sufficient.

Thanks,
Tyler Sylvester

maybe because that's where it failed? the OP stated he didn't even touch that part as it comes pre installed too. this is a failure straight from the factory.

derraj06 · 09-10-2013, 07:02 PM

Here are two pictures from install.

These show the condition when it was installed a week ago.

Chuck33079 · 09-10-2013, 07:03 PM

It couldn't possibly have been a factory defect. Just look at the video and pics of their office.

Chuck33079 · 09-10-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mishimoto

A statement was made that we have ‘zero quality control’. In fact, most of the products we use every day (Apple, Samsung, Nissan) are manufactured or use components manufactured in China. But unlike many companies, Mishimoto has our own facility in China with a team of Quality Control Engineers who conduct rigorous on-site inspection for every order. I’ll post some photos of our China office below for you to check out!

Mishimoto Performance Aluminum Radiator - NASIOC

Mishimoto - NASIOC

Mishimoto issues... - SVTPerformance

Problems after installing Mishimoto radiator - SVTPerformance

Anyone Running Mishimoto Radiator? - Ford Mustang Forums

Why not to buy a Mishimoto radiator - RX8Club.com

I stopped on page three of Google search results. Rigorous inspection my ***. So Mishimoto, if the OP's motor is toast because of oil starvation, are you going to replace the motor or just get him a new sandwich plate? How far does that warranty go?

derraj06 · 09-10-2013, 07:37 PM

To your reference of your reference of a team a quality engineers at your manufacturing facility.

Do you care to explain how you ensure the cap has been torqued to the appropriate spec? How do you guarantee that the cap is flush to the body? How do you track traceability through the final assembly process?

I work as an engineer that installs equipment to ensure these things. Those are sincere questions.

Where do I find your traceability marks so you can review this data? I would be happy to provide you with any identifying information so that you can better analyze this failure.

1slow370 · 09-11-2013, 03:08 AM

soo.. did you take pics of the plate? cuz there is no o-ring boss hole in the world that seals properly without both the underside of the fitting and the top of the hole being machined with seal surfaces. if it is not counter sunk or counter bored at the plate you need to use a dowty seal. and if its countersunk you cannot just break the thread it must be deep enough to provide a clean 360 degree seal.

Edit: the one in the video is counter-bored correctly so so long as yours looks like that than it had to be an assembly error(unless the counter bore is the wrong size). In the video at 0:45 that is what your' plate needs to have on that hole. I had one of the first original defective GTM kit's that had issues with the lines and my motor popped. I shut it off right away, removed the plate refilled it and drove it while i was getting replacement lines and my motor started throwing timing codes a month later because little pieces of the thrust bearing where plugging the oil passages to the cam actuators. You may not know your motor has had it's life shortened right away. (as a side note you saw how effective that factory oil pressure light is didn't you lol useless)

derraj06 · 09-11-2013, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

soo.. did you take pics of the plate? cuz there is no o-ring boss hole in the world that seals properly without both the underside of the fitting and the top of the hole being machined with seal surfaces. if it is not counter sunk or counter bored at the plate you need to use a dowty seal. and if its countersunk you cannot just break the thread it must be deep enough to provide a clean 360 degree seal.

Edit: the one in the video is counter-bored correctly so so long as yours looks like that than it had to be an assembly error(unless the counter bore is the wrong size). In the video at 0:45 that is what your' plate needs to have on that hole. I had one of the first original defective GTM kit's that had issues with the lines and my motor popped. I shut it off right away, removed the plate refilled it and drove it while i was getting replacement lines and my motor started throwing timing codes a month later because little pieces of the thrust bearing where plugging the oil passages to the cam actuators. You may not know your motor has had it's life shortened right away. (as a side note you saw how effective that factory oil pressure light is didn't you lol useless)

The second set of pictures shows the plate freshly installed. I think I have pictures when I first unboxed it but I haven't located them yet.

Most likely it is counter sunk and I couldn't see it from my angle under the car. I will have the part Friday around lunch and I will know for sure.

Nice to hear even if its running it may still be dead. And yes the oil light is useless. Had I not been paying attention to my mirrors I wouldn't have known anything.

derraj06 · 09-12-2013, 08:24 PM

So as an update. I have not received any I rings from the company.

In fairness I did inform the Brand Ambassador Tyler that I would not be keeping their product on my car. I have received a replacement from Z1 and it will be going on the car tomorrow morning. I have not received any communication from them since.

The shop put another slightly smaller o ring in the car and fired the engine. It will run but it needs more monitoring to know what's going on.

I should have the part tomorrow along with the full report from the dealer. I will post pictures of the part before it gets shipped back to amazon.

My guess is it was a misassembly at their factory and I would be cautious of trusting it is assembled correctly in the future. I probably should have taken it apart to inspect it but instead I chose to install the part how it came out of the box.

Chuck33079 · 09-12-2013, 10:32 PM

Not a surprise, unfortunately. They only respond when you make a public statement that could affect their sales.

Mishimoto · 09-13-2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derraj06

So as an update. I have not received any I rings from the company.

In fairness I did inform the Brand Ambassador Tyler that I would not be keeping their product on my car. I have received a replacement from Z1 and it will be going on the car tomorrow morning. I have not received any communication from them since.

The shop put another slightly smaller o ring in the car and fired the engine. It will run but it needs more monitoring to know what's going on.

I should have the part tomorrow along with the full report from the dealer. I will post pictures of the part before it gets shipped back to amazon.

My guess is it was a misassembly at their factory and I would be cautious of trusting it is assembled correctly in the future. I probably should have taken it apart to inspect it but instead I chose to install the part how it came out of the box.

I apologize for any miscommunication regarding this shipment. I had a chance to review the email string between you and our Customer Service rep Pat, and we did not ship these out next day air. These were mailed out via USPS on Monday, 9/9. Since we shipped these directly from our main office in Delaware, you should have received them by now. If you would like, I would be happy to re-ship these O-rings to you via FedEx, so we can provide a tracking number.

Thanks,
Tyler

09-10-2013, 06:39 PM	#33 (permalink)
Mishimoto Base Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 80 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 14	My apologies again for the typo on the email address. The correct email address is: tsylvester@mishimoto.com I assure you that this was simply a typo. Mishimoto is a reputable and well known company with four locations worldwide… we would not intentionally mistype an email address simply to avoid speaking with our customers. We value our customer feedback and input – which is the reason I’m on this forum and attempting to address concerns within 24 hours of the original post. I’d like to address a few specific comments that have been made. We do not “steal other’s designs”. We have a team of full-time mechanical engineers in our New Castle HQ just for R&D, product design, and testing. I encourage you to take a look at this video which highlights the design process of this actual product: Mishimoto Engineering Behind the Scenes - From Concept to Completion - YouTube A statement was made that we have ‘zero quality control’. In fact, most of the products we use every day (Apple, Samsung, Nissan) are manufactured or use components manufactured in China. But unlike many companies, Mishimoto has our own facility in China with a team of Quality Control Engineers who conduct rigorous on-site inspection for every order. I’ll post some photos of our China office below for you to check out! A comment was made questioning our Lifetime Warranty. The process is quite straightforward: simply email us a photo of the defect and a copy of the receipt and we will take care of it. This is manufacturing, and as with any manufacturing, there can be a very small percentage of defects that may still get through. We put many controls and inspections in place to limit the amount of defects, and we stand behind the product with our Lifetime Warranty. We have thousands of very satisfied customers – it is very unfortunate that you seemed to have received a defective unit, which is why we are taking the time here to work with you and attempt to address the issue. Now that I’ve addressed the above concerns, let me share with you the feedback from our engineers after meeting to discuss this issue. It appears from your photo that the thermostat plug was not fully tightened. The way this product is designed is such that the plug will ‘bottom out’ against the surface of the sandwich plate when fully tightened. This assures the correct amount of interference/deformation at the O-ring to achieve a proper seal – and at the same time assures that it cannot damage the O-ring by ‘over-tightening’. Yes, there is a countersink upon which the O-ring seals. We do not just sandwich it between two flat plates. You mentioned that 10 lbs does not seem like very much. The spec for tightening is actually 10 ft/lbs, which is quite high. Basically, it just needs to be bottomed-out against the sandwich plate and that will be sufficient. Thanks, Tyler Sylvester milmast likes this. __________________ Mishimoto Automotive

09-10-2013, 06:40 PM	#34 (permalink)
Mishimoto Base Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 80 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 14	Here are the images of our office in China. __________________ Mishimoto Automotive

09-10-2013, 06:59 PM	#35 (permalink)
derraj06 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 406 Drives: MB 370z Rep Power: 12	Have not made any claims as to the quality of the brand. Take that up with the others in the thread. I am only speaking from my personal experience and this is the only product of yours I have tried. To the comment that the cap was not tight when I room this picture. I realize that as there is an oring sticking out the side. I am looking for my picture from when I installed to to prove it was snug. I did not tamper with this unit in any way before installing this plate because I did not want to chance a problem like this if it was not correctly tightened. The pictures above are in a parking lot shortly after the car was stopped. I took them myself before disassembling the part. Speaking with a co worker if mine who is a Mechanical engineer of 20+ years of experience in the automotive industry he felt 10ft/lbs was not a lot of force given a 370z engine can reach 100psi easily before it is warm. That is the basis of that comment. I have already stated I am an electrical engineer and do not claim to have a full knowledge of mechanical principles. To the comment that the part is countersunk. I have seen pictures to show it is and I am not claiming they are not. Any comments I have made when it was being discussed previously were based on the fact I don't recall there being a countersink there when I was inspecting the car. The facts of this are that I installed your companies product in good faith is was a correctly assembled and tested product and it failed within a week of install. I make no other claims as to the origins of its design or assembly. __________________ 2010 Monterey Blue 370Z

09-10-2013, 07:02 PM	#37 (permalink)
derraj06 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 406 Drives: MB 370z Rep Power: 12	Here are two pictures from install. These show the condition when it was installed a week ago. __________________ 2010 Monterey Blue 370Z

09-10-2013, 07:03 PM	#38 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	It couldn't possibly have been a factory defect. Just look at the video and pics of their office. G37sHKS likes this. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

09-10-2013, 07:37 PM	#40 (permalink)
derraj06 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 406 Drives: MB 370z Rep Power: 12	To your reference of your reference of a team a quality engineers at your manufacturing facility. Do you care to explain how you ensure the cap has been torqued to the appropriate spec? How do you guarantee that the cap is flush to the body? How do you track traceability through the final assembly process? I work as an engineer that installs equipment to ensure these things. Those are sincere questions. Where do I find your traceability marks so you can review this data? I would be happy to provide you with any identifying information so that you can better analyze this failure. O&G and critical like this. __________________ 2010 Monterey Blue 370Z

09-11-2013, 03:08 AM	#41 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	soo.. did you take pics of the plate? cuz there is no o-ring boss hole in the world that seals properly without both the underside of the fitting and the top of the hole being machined with seal surfaces. if it is not counter sunk or counter bored at the plate you need to use a dowty seal. and if its countersunk you cannot just break the thread it must be deep enough to provide a clean 360 degree seal. Edit: the one in the video is counter-bored correctly so so long as yours looks like that than it had to be an assembly error(unless the counter bore is the wrong size). In the video at 0:45 that is what your' plate needs to have on that hole. I had one of the first original defective GTM kit's that had issues with the lines and my motor popped. I shut it off right away, removed the plate refilled it and drove it while i was getting replacement lines and my motor started throwing timing codes a month later because little pieces of the thrust bearing where plugging the oil passages to the cam actuators. You may not know your motor has had it's life shortened right away. (as a side note you saw how effective that factory oil pressure light is didn't you lol useless) __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 09-11-2013 at 03:27 AM.

09-12-2013, 08:24 PM	#43 (permalink)
derraj06 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 406 Drives: MB 370z Rep Power: 12	So as an update. I have not received any I rings from the company. In fairness I did inform the Brand Ambassador Tyler that I would not be keeping their product on my car. I have received a replacement from Z1 and it will be going on the car tomorrow morning. I have not received any communication from them since. The shop put another slightly smaller o ring in the car and fired the engine. It will run but it needs more monitoring to know what's going on. I should have the part tomorrow along with the full report from the dealer. I will post pictures of the part before it gets shipped back to amazon. My guess is it was a misassembly at their factory and I would be cautious of trusting it is assembled correctly in the future. I probably should have taken it apart to inspect it but instead I chose to install the part how it came out of the box.

09-12-2013, 10:32 PM	#44 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29539	Not a surprise, unfortunately. They only respond when you make a public statement that could affect their sales. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

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