VK Swap Discussion...

guitaraholic

I know this question is a bit left field, but, I'll ask anyways.

- Because the Bore and stroke are very close to that of the LS1, would it be possible to use some of the internals of the LS1 in the VK56. Let me explain...


The VK56 bore/stroke/rod length is 3.9"/3.6"/6.0826"
The LS1 bore/stroke/rod length is 3.898"/3.622"/6.098

Yes, I am assuming you would have some machining involved, but because bore spacing is essentially identical, the crank should be very close in journal width, and you would need to machine the journal diameter (if all goes well, I'll have both engines in my garage, I already have an LS3 that's going in a SL-C, but might get a VK56 for close to nothing, but won't be until late this year before I'll get a chance to tear into them both.

The reason for this,, you could build the bottom end quite cheap if you did it this way, because LSx engine parts (even the forged ones) can be had for pretty cheap.

On the top end, depending if you have a DE or VD, not sure if other parts would swap out with other engines (valve springs, retainers, ect),

CSA0890

Ive been pricing parts to start an LS build for my 370 and am closing in on 30k without the fab work to make it work. So I guess Im starting on my wifes 4.6 3V for her mustang first
Quality parts get ridiculous fast.
Im looking to make a short stroke big bore off an RHS block plus a 2.9L Whipple, solid roller cam, dry sump, and 8000+ rpm. Im only wanting 5-600 hp but I think Im going to end up close to 1k.

guitaraholic

$30,000 on an LS build?, What are you putting in it?

I have an L92 I picked up for $2,700 with wire harness, pedal assembly, and all the accessories. I priced a nice stroker rebuild and came in about $5,000. That's all forged internals, upgraded springs, valves, pushrods, cams. I'm putting it in my SL-C and figure I'll get around 550HP or so, which is more than enough for a 2300lb car.

You can pick up an LS7 crate enigine for $13k or so, with just a cam and a good exhaust you'll be close to 600HP or more naturally aspirated. The 370z isn't that heavy of a car, I'm thinking 1000HP (which if you are going to do it that way, turbos would be your best bet, is more for bragging rights then being able to use it on anything but the drag strip. Even on a road course 1000HP isn't very useful, and probably would make it so much of a hand full to drive it won't be that much fun. Before you get wrapped up in the numbers, I would drive something close to that to see if it is something you even want.

CSA0890

I think you misunderstood. Im only looking for 5-600. Im sure if I did a NA build I would be around 700 ish but I would like a blower especially since I will be reducing the stroke and losing some torque. Mainly I am making sure it will be as reliable as I can get it and that certainly drives up cost. I wouldnt trust an LS7 past bolt ons since their sleeves are so thin.

Thats why I am going with an aftermarket block which is 5k. Then finishing the shortblock is another 2.5-3k. The heads are 3k+ and thats not including rockers which are at least 1k since I want to spin it so high. The dry sump is at least 3.5k. Remote water pump 1k and so on.

Quality parts are really high of course but I think it will be worth it. I want a strong foundation I can build on and as I get better add more power to it. I am looking forward to the fueled racing LS kit for our cars.

SS_Firehawk

So you want a blower and spin the hell out of the motor? That seems a bit off unless you look at a centrifugal setup. I've seen a ton of LS3's that make 550-600+ whp with just boltons, cam, and a blower... and be reliable. Why do you need a dry sump? Road racing, drifting?

I don't know the details of what your car will be used for, but for the amount of money you are throwing at it, it really doesn't make sense. You have the same cost of the car under the hood.

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CSA0890

Like I said I want plenty of room to grow. Spinning a Whipple up high isnt unusual I will be limited as to the size of the pulley I can run which will keep it under 10 psi for sure but I wont need that much pressure anyway.
The dry sump is pretty critical for high rpm. 1. It will reduce windage to basically nothing 2. It will allow me to use lower tension rings since it will pull a large vacuum which has the added benefit of reducing friction. 3. Consistent oil supply will be absolutely essential and a dry sump will provide that. Plus it will help with clearances since the pan is about 1.5" thick.
I primarily will be drag racing but I know I will want to get into road courses as well.

Whoever said putting money into cars made sense anyway? Lol

SS_Firehawk

Touche haha. I wanted to go moar fast and dropping $15k to do so made more financial sense than selling and buying something faster. I wanted to keep my Z, the parts I already invested and keep torque in check because of my stock block. Supercharging made sense. But fack would I love to have a VK56VD under the hood.

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CSA0890

I agree. That was my original thought as well. But with performance parts scarce it turned me off to the idea. It is a fantastic engine though. It sounds amazing upwards of 8000 rpm.

guitaraholic

That's kinda why I'm wondering if you can use some of the bottom end parts off the LSx engine on the VK56, being the measurements are very very close. (Hope I'll find out soon),

as for the top end, I believe the engine I'm getting is the VK56VD. That being the case, I won't need to do much for the top end except maybe stiffer springs. The VVEL ranges from 0 - 280 degrees of cam timing, and if you tweak the "magic screw" you can get 300 degrees with 12.5mm of lift, which is more than enough to feed it to 9000rpm if that is your hearts desire.

I think the only trick will be the direct injection. They supply enough fuel for 420hp,, but if you wanted say 600 or so,, I wonder if they could handle it, or is there an aftermarket for it.

Rusty

Where is this magic screw you talk of?

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guitaraholic

Jim Wolf has a demonstration on how to "adjust" the VVEL. There is a screw that moves the maximum position. Stock it goes up to 280 degrees, but if you max it out, you can get about 300 degrees of duration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyubJV4siss

Rusty

I remember seeing that video awhile back. Looks like there is one per cylinder. Wonder if anybody has played with it?

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"The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only"
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CSA0890

That sounds slightly scary. As to LSx parts in a VK.. I can pretty much guarantee you it wont work. I imagine the crank journal sizes are completely different.
The hardest part about DI is that last I checked no one makes aftermarket injectors for them. I had a Cobalt SS with DI and we would max out the inector duty cycle past 400hp. One company drilled out some injectors and got past 500hp and then made a custom fuel rail with an extra piggy back injector to get past 600hp. I would rather find a VK56DE so I wouldnt have to mess with any of that. I imagine cam cost would drop considerably without VVEL as well

guitaraholic

The VK56's rod journals are .024 larger than the LS1/2/3. I would think you could have the crank turned. You would only be removing 24 thousands of metal off the rod journals for the LS3 rods to fit (if 2.1" works for the LS3, I'm pretty sure it would work for the VK56). You can pick up forged LS3 rods and Pistons for fairly cheap. This would save a lot of money on the bottom end.

Again, top end,, not a lot you can, nor even want to do, if you have the VK56VD. It already flows enough for 420hp and a relatively low compression 5.6L. I would just get better valve springs, maybe titanium retainers and call it a day.

Once I'm done overseas, I am seriously going to consider this.

VK56 parts
- Crank
- Main Bearings
- Seals and Gaskets

LS3 Parts
- Connecting Rods
- Pistons (just need to bore it out 1mm for LS1 pistons to fit)
- Rod Bearings
- Piston Rings
- Wrist Pins

IDZRVIT

Be more creative! Sniped this from a corvette forum. Two LS blocks welded together for a V12, 8.9L. Guess what the plans are for a transplant? A 240Z!!!

Man Creates 8.9 Liter V12 LS Engine - Corvette Forum

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