NA: 342/275. Anyone higher?

Mike · 11-05-2012, 09:44 AM

just for clarification, my exhaust is straight pipes all the way back to two 12" glasspacks.

John@Z1 · 11-05-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

I'm definitly doing this beyond a doubt. The tune has to be done else where cause of sponsor deals and all. But I will net same results. I already know the little secert behind the VVEL. It's really not that much of a secert. among tuners. It's just adustments in several ares. I mentioned it to Z1 today and they went silent on me. He he.

This is pretty funny as I don't recall speaking to you and I don't believe you spoke to Rob. I can tell you right now this wasn't just VVEL tuning. I do know how you will see the same gains since the dyno you go to reads different every time as well as making more power than a dynojet which is something mind boggling for most

.

I do wish I knew this secret in the VVEL that's different from what everyone else knows

DR_ · 11-05-2012, 10:47 AM

Do you think 330whp is achievable with your headers and your tune with Berk HFC and Stillen exhaust?

indyn · 11-05-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan370z

so if a stock 2012 was in the 28x whp
that mean this 342whp isnt too exeptional afterall...
I went from 256 to 324 without VVEL tuning which is 68whp more and let assume Mike had exactly 280whp as a baseline.. he got +62whp up to 342whp
the biggest difference between him and my setup is the oversized TB other than that the rest is pretty similar.

Megan is right, typical average gains are in the 50 - 60+ whp across the board with the typical mods Gen3, ART/LTH and CBE. This is without touching the VVEL.

daisuke149 · 11-05-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indyn

Megan is right, typical average gains are in the 50 - 60+ whp across the board with the typical mods Gen3, ART/LTH and CBE. This is without touching the VVEL.

gtypical gains for those mods are not 50-60whp... LOLOL where are you even getting that.

find the examples you speak of.

indyn · 11-05-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

gtypical gains for those mods are not 50-60whp... LOLOL where are you even getting that.

find the examples you speak of.

look up Megan's profile, and anyone else running the long tube headers, Gen 3 and CBE with a tune.

daisuke149 · 11-05-2012, 11:50 AM

i know people with LTH gen 3 and CBE and tunes in person.. dont need to look at someone far away's profile. you do not just gaine 50-60whp from that.

So again, please provide some actual proof in the form of dyno sheets from multiple people.. as you stated.. typical gains are.. so to be typical it must happen alot.

John@Z1 · 11-05-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR_

Do you think 330whp is achievable with your headers and your tune with Berk HFC and Stillen exhaust?

I couldn't tell you that info for sure until I tune one with that exact set-up on our dyno. I'm sure someone can on a dyno other than ours as I see some crazy numbers for the mods.

MJB · 11-05-2012, 12:22 PM

John, just to clarify since I went ahead and ordered the 350z headers from you guys,.. The only thing I need is either 350z test pipes or hfc's, no other modifications?

Megan370z · 11-05-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

i know people with LTH gen 3 and CBE and tunes in person.. dont need to look at someone far away's profile. you do not just gaine 50-60whp from that.

So again, please provide some actual proof in the form of dyno sheets from multiple people.. as you stated.. typical gains are.. so to be typical it must happen alot.

well you are wrong as I did gained about 68whp without vvel tuning.
dyno sheet are also around.
doesnt matter what we tell you that it can be done you will just not believe.

as the guy previously look at my Journal and you will see what was involve to get this high.

-custom CAI & MAf tube (Stillen ver3 are very similar in term of adding power)
-custom TB
-custom HR intake manifold (which usualy give a lower peak power than the VHR)
-PPE step long tube header
-custom x-pipe & straight flow muffler
-Uprev tuned by me.
-lightweight crank pulley *NST*

there is still power to be had with a stock VQ37vhr engine but I blew the engine before I was almost done with the next project

edit; I removed the A/C delete from the list because that was after my last dyno session.

John@Z1 · 11-05-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJB

John, just to clarify since I went ahead and ordered the 350z headers from you guys,.. The only thing I need is either 350z test pipes or hfc's, no other modifications?

Nothing else is needed. You're going to love them. Thanks for the order!

SS_Firehawk · 11-05-2012, 01:06 PM

I'm running long tubes with every bolt on to the motor and exhaust. Only thing I don't have is a flywheel/clutch upgrade. I was at 316 with it's best run, but was untuned. I don't think a tune was going to get me 14whp. My baseline was 266-270 FYI. My tuned numbers are 10-12whp off, but I'm thinking it was heat killing the numbers.

Anything over 50 is doing great, over 60whp over baseline is an anomaly, a gracious dyno or a combination of low temps, full bolt ons, tuning, low elevation, and at least a dynojet. The dyno I've been using is reporting around 18-20% drivetrain loss in crappy Vegas weather and elevation.

Jordo! · 11-05-2012, 01:25 PM

I haven't followed every post here, but I it seems as though there is still debate over the value of having access to the VVEL maps.

Here's a simple way to determine their value empirically.

Re-load the previous tune where fuel and timing was optimized for Mike's set-up using stock VVEL mapping. Fine tune as needed -- leave VVEL alone. dyno three runs. Take the best.

Then load the tune with optimized fuel, spark , and VVEL tuning. Fine tune as needed on all relevant maps. Take three dyno runs and report the best.

Compare and contrast -- question answered.

If Mike makes another 10-12 whp (or more) at points throughout the rev range when adjusting all three parameters together as opposed to just two, clearly having access to the VVEL maps is helpful for extracting maximum power.

Jordo! · 11-05-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I'm running long tubes with every bolt on to the motor and exhaust. Only thing I don't have is a flywheel/clutch upgrade. I was at 316 with it's best run, but was untuned. I don't think a tune was going to get me 14whp. My baseline was 266-270 FYI. My tuned numbers are 10-12whp off, but I'm thinking it was heat killing the numbers.

Anything over 50 is doing great, over 60whp over baseline is an anomaly, a gracious dyno or a combination of low temps, full bolt ons, tuning, low elevation, and at least a dynojet. The dyno I've been using is reporting around 18-20% drivetrain loss in crappy Vegas weather and elevation.

I don't know where Mike is, but your numbers are severely negatively affected by power and elevation, even with very high CF's.

At sea level in FL, where I am, the summer heat and humidity will absolutely kill power, no matter how much correction is used.

The SAE guys need to develop better corrections for their estimates...

Red__Zed · 11-05-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan370z

so if a stock 2012 was in the 28x whp
that mean this 342whp isnt too exeptional afterall...
I went from 256 to 324 without VVEL tuning which is 68whp more and let assume Mike had exactly 280whp as a baseline.. he got +62whp up to 342whp
the biggest difference between him and my setup is the oversized TB other than that the rest is pretty similar.

It's worth it to take some advice I heard once from a very wise man about how to compare dyno numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Don't.

But if you must, account for some of the potential differences...by watching percentages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

PP numbers are more telling. 10whp over a 200whp baseline is 5PP, over a 300whp baseline it is 3.33...pp. basically takes the inflationary nature of dyno out, which does a lot to level the numbers.

If, for instance, we choose to compare mike's gains to yours, say...

(342-280)/280~= 22.1% gain

(324-256)/256~= 26.6% gain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I don't know where Mike is, but your numbers are severely negatively affected by power and elevation, even with very high CF's.

At sea level in FL, where I am, the summer heat and humidity will absolutely kill power, no matter how much correction is used.

The SAE guys need to develop better corrections for their estimates...

And this is why I'm always loathe to compare numbers.

11-05-2012, 09:44 AM	#106 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2186	just for clarification, my exhaust is straight pipes all the way back to two 12" glasspacks. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

11-05-2012, 12:22 PM	#114 (permalink)
MJB A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tacoma, WA Age: 41 Posts: 1,498 Drives: a POS truck Rep Power: 496	John, just to clarify since I went ahead and ordered the 350z headers from you guys,.. The only thing I need is either 350z test pipes or hfc's, no other modifications? __________________ 09 Nismo #0483 sold. Viper or C7 next time around.

11-05-2012, 01:06 PM	#117 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	I'm running long tubes with every bolt on to the motor and exhaust. Only thing I don't have is a flywheel/clutch upgrade. I was at 316 with it's best run, but was untuned. I don't think a tune was going to get me 14whp. My baseline was 266-270 FYI. My tuned numbers are 10-12whp off, but I'm thinking it was heat killing the numbers. Anything over 50 is doing great, over 60whp over baseline is an anomaly, a gracious dyno or a combination of low temps, full bolt ons, tuning, low elevation, and at least a dynojet. The dyno I've been using is reporting around 18-20% drivetrain loss in crappy Vegas weather and elevation. John@Z1 likes this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

11-05-2012, 01:25 PM	#118 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	I haven't followed every post here, but I it seems as though there is still debate over the value of having access to the VVEL maps. Here's a simple way to determine their value empirically. Re-load the previous tune where fuel and timing was optimized for Mike's set-up using stock VVEL mapping. Fine tune as needed -- leave VVEL alone. dyno three runs. Take the best. Then load the tune with optimized fuel, spark , and VVEL tuning. Fine tune as needed on all relevant maps. Take three dyno runs and report the best. Compare and contrast -- question answered. If Mike makes another 10-12 whp (or more) at points throughout the rev range when adjusting all three parameters together as opposed to just two, clearly having access to the VVEL maps is helpful for extracting maximum power. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

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11-05-2012, 10:47 AM	#108 (permalink)
DR_ Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 981 Drives: Touring/Sport M6 PG Rep Power: 17	Do you think 330whp is achievable with your headers and your tune with Berk HFC and Stillen exhaust?

11-05-2012, 11:50 AM	#112 (permalink)
daisuke149 My *** is famous! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Alpharetta, GA Posts: 4,849 Drives: 2013 Boss 302 PW Rep Power: 31	i know people with LTH gen 3 and CBE and tunes in person.. dont need to look at someone far away's profile. you do not just gaine 50-60whp from that. So again, please provide some actual proof in the form of dyno sheets from multiple people.. as you stated.. typical gains are.. so to be typical it must happen alot.