Downshifting to 2nd or 1st while moving (technique)
 

I apologize if this is the wrong forum....I didn't see a section for non-track driving technique.

Anyway, I think I've gotten pretty decent driving the Z in 90% of situations (this is my first manual I've owned). However, there is one situation that I feel like I never handle correctly.

Say I'm approaching a yield right turn in 4th gear, 35MPH or so. I need to slow down a lot to check for traffic. I see a car and decide I need to slow down and possibly stop. So I clutch in and brake and either keep the clutch in or go into neutral if it's a longer brake.

Now let's say I underestimated how fast the oncoming car was going and the car has already passed me, and now I'm free to drive through the yield turn. Now obviously I need to engage a gear and I'm going probably 10-15 MPH in neutral/clutch disengaged. It seems just a tad bit too fast to switch into first, because prior experience tells me going into first will throw me forward from the sudden braking under load. So I try to engage 2nd. Here's where it gets tricky. The car really lugs and feels like it's going to stall as I engage 2nd. The RPM has already fallen despite the efforts of synchro rev. I have to give it significant gas in 2nd to prevent stalling and it takes a few seconds to get my RPM back up and get back into the power band.

So how should I have handled this situation? Just hit first and accept the jolt to prevent the lugging in 2nd? Or should I have blipped the throttle manually or done something before/after switching to second?

That happens to me all the time! Usually I throw it into second and let the car engine brake . If I have to come to a complete stop I push the clutch in and stop. If I can go, I'm already in second and I can just start moving. It doesn't seem to lug for me if it's already in gear.

There's no need to be shifting into first while the car is in motion. 2nd gear can handle pretty low speeds. If you're going 10-15 MPH coming to a stop you should be in second gear. It almost sounds like you are dis engaging the clutch too soon if you're out of gear rolling at 15 mph...If I understand correctly you're approaching a yield sign, so why are you disengaging the clutch? Keep going forward and then go about your business. But otherwise if you've disengaged the clutch you'll need to revmatch in order to stop the car from bogging down.

:iagree:

You should never really be shifting into 1st. The only time i do it is if in literally rolling to a stop sign or in a parking lot... rolling. The rest can be done in 2nd gear... and 35 mph in 4th??? damn lol, 4th does like 110 mph in these cars...

I just used the yield sign thing as an example of a time where I think I am going to stop but then it turns out that I need to keep going. Perhaps I anticipate too much and take the car out of gear too soon so that's definitely something to work on. But my question is more about what to do once I'm already in that situation.

SynchroRev should match the revs for you going back into gear. If not depending on your speed, blip the throttle and put it back into gear... But if you do it incorretly or at a high speed make sure you have VDC on to cut the throttle or else you're going to clutch kick into oncoming traffic or something lol

Practice Practice Practice

I was always taught to avoid leaving the car in neutral while rolling. In the scenario you described, here's my technique.

Heel-toe to brake while rev-matching for 2nd gear.
Place car in 2nd gear, let clutch out. Engine braking + pedal braking slows you down.
When you see your opening, hit the gas.

Look up Ayrton Senna in car footage if you want to learn some awesome foot work :)

I have a similar issue when going up hill in traffic while in second. once traffic slows down significantly, i either give it more gas in second (to avoid stalling) or completely stop and shift into first and go from there. I feel resistance if i try to shift to first while the car is moving at all so i never shift into first unless i am at a complete stop. Do you guys ever shift into first when the z is in motion?

You feel resistance because there is a gate locking you out. Not to say you can't downshift into 1st, with proper rev matching you can in theory... But it's never advised in a manual transmission car.. use 1st to get going and don't go back in once you're going, 2nd is good until pretty low speeds.

If I'm on a hill and traffic is that slow where it's almost a stop.. I just clutch in while the car has the smallest forward momentum, blip the throttle in first gear just a tiny hair as if I was starting from a stop and engage the clutch normally. Shouldn't really be a problem. But I wouldn't really call this going back into first in motion, for all intent and purposes it's as if the car was at a complete stop.

It seems like SRM doesn't rev up enough by itself so I'll have to blip it more.

I keep it in fourth sometimes while cruising 35 mph. It's better on gas that way.

What RPMs are you guys at, in 4th gear @ 35mph?

If I remember correctly, 2K-ish. I don't drive my car every day.

I guess but I just think thats way too slow for 4th...

+1 on not going to first while your already moving... if revmatched perfectly it will go into 1st but normally the gate will stay closed.

Actually if you look at the owners manual...the shift points are ridiculous...you're suppose to be in 6th at 45mph or something like that.

35MPH is not too slow for 4th, considering the OFFICIAL MANUAL says you should be shifting into 6 at 33MPH!!!! Yes of course that is really slow for 6th but it's actually the recommended speed.

Gear change MPH (km/h)
1st to 2nd 8 (13)
2nd to 3rd 16 (26)
3rd to 4th 25 (40)
4th to 5th 28 (45)
5th to 6th 33 (53)

And further, I like to shift through the gears when I'm driving around town, and I rarely hit areas that are more than 50 MPH while doing this. By your definition I would never leave 3rd and my gas mileage would be in the toilet! And none of this even matters anyway because it has no bearing on my original question and they're just some numbers I threw out to explain my question.

I'd stay in 3rd, personally. If you have to accelerate quickly to get out of danger/avoid something, you won't have as much power available and it's harder on the engine. If you need to slow down to avoid something, you'll end up downshifting to 3rd once you need to accelerate again.

I don't own a 370Z, but that's based on years of experience in a wide range of manual transmission vehicles.

Copied from 2009 owners manual AK posted

For normal acceleration in low altitude areas
[less than 4,000 ft (1,219 m)]:
Gear change MPH (km/h)
1st to 2nd 8 (13)
2nd to 3rd 16 (26)
3rd to 4th 25 (40)
4th to 5th 28 (45)
5th to 6th 33 (53)
For quick acceleration in low altitude areas or in
high altitude areas [over 4,000 ft (1,219 m)]:
Gear change MPH (km/h)
1st to 2nd 15 (24)
2nd to 3rd 25 (40)
3rd to 4th 40 (64)
4th to 5th 45 (72)
5th to 6th 50 (80)

o and for anybody interested the max speed for each gear:
Gear MPH (km/h)
1st 38 (62)
2nd 63 (102)
3rd 91 (146)
4th —
5th —
6th —

To answer OP, dont shift into 1 if your already moving. The only time i shift into 1 is when the car is traveling around 2-3 mph. If you're in neutral going 5-15 (maybe 20) mph shift into second. 20-30 shift into 3rd. This should limit any bogging. SRM should rev up enough to make it smooth. With the early shifts 1 & 2, my advice is make the shifts slower.

Thanks for the response. So when rolling up hill in second and traffic becomes too slow for second (but never stops), the appropriate way to keep from stalling is by rev matching into first? I usually face this issue when going up a ramp to a freeway with a quick red/green light. coming to a complete stop and shifting into first is not always an option wit cali drivers behind me (sorry to the op for thread jacking lol).

I think they're saying you shouldn't shift into first in those situations, but I could be wrong. Unless you're basically at a stop. Would the correct solution be to just brake a tad bit and stay engaged in second and then just give it barely enough gas not to stall?

I think a lot of it has to do with getting comfortable with 2nd gear. When first learning to drive a manual, I always felt like I was going stall in 2nd gear. You find out though, that as long as the car is moving forward, chances are, it won't stall. If you feel like you're about to stop, below 5 mph, disengage the clutch and shift to 1st. If I understand this correctly though, you should get into the habit of rowing down through the gears... very easy with syncro rev.

Yeah I think I'm just not really comfortable with how slow is acceptable in 2nd without stalling.

Just reading you say "should I down shift to 2nd or 1st" makes me say "yikes!" There is no need to drop into first unless you are on a slow roll, 2nd will do.

You can CRAWL in 2nd without really getting into trouble and IMO, if you are traveling at least 10mph, you should stay out of 1st once rolling. Honestly, I am not sure if the car will even let you into 1st going that speed without some effort.

Just keep practicing and you will have it under control in no time. :p

there is a pretty interesting question.... what gear should i be in going between 30-60mph and 70-90mph?
my car is brand spanking new, so i was told to take it easy on her and break her in. to NOT speed nor push the gear to its max until i reach 2k miles. i only reached 450 miles today. also it is my first manual transmission car and i haven't driven M/T in about 9 years... i feel a little lost at times. i stall it from time to time, my clutch is too high up (i think)
idk I'm just a tad bit confused.

... sorry guys, but i was told as well and i am doing it. DO NOT go to 1st unless the car is at a complete stop. only first while rolling if you going up the hill and the car is not making then you downshift to 1st. but thats the ONLY time.
also after watching all the 370z reviews they all said "if you really using the S-mode you really shouldn't be driving a M/T" ... therefore i am practicing everyday all day, driving with that thing off but i don't think i am getting it right, or how is supposed to.

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

what vivid said. This is my first manual car also, but I learned never to put in neutral unless you are at a complete stop (safety reasons). And from your description I would just rev match downshift (not heeltoe) from 4th to 3rd, then if you still need to slow down i'll heel toe to 2nd gear. Its really hard to heeltoe from 4th to 3rd @35, it can be done but i think its just better to downshift without hitting the brakes.

Those people that are claiming you shouldn't drive with SRM are idiots, and probably just jealous. We have the technology, and it makes driving more enjoyable many times for me, so why not use it? It's still a manual car, you just get a little bit of modern convenience. You paid for the sport package with SRM so use it!

Search for "clutch helper spring" on this forum and do the simple clutch spring replacement mod. It takes 20 minutes and your clutch will feel 100x better and easier to find the engagement point. Other than that, just keep practicing. You are doing the right thing by not pushing the car hard until it breaks in.

Too lazy to read the entire thread but if you are moving use 2nd gear.

That might be true for most, but I honestly think it's more fun to drive it off. Makes me feel more engaged as a driver, anyways I still turn on SRM after a cold start as the revs are much higher.

My father said the clutch is perfect. I feel like is to high, I can't even put my heel on the ground because the clutch push my feet backwards. Since I'm still getting used to it. I feel like is better for me to practice that way so when I get other cars it will be easier a little I suppose.
Thank you everyone.

I have to say, i really dont like the Syncro rev matching and I hardly ever use it... just never felt a need to need it...

But anyways, i wanted to come back and say that yesterday on my ride home i realized that i was shifting to 4th at around 35 - 40 mph. it would sit at about 2k rpms in 4th at that speed.. Good for when im stuck behind people on the road... so i take my comment back about that earlier..

I can keep my heel on the floor while regulating the clutch. But I suppose I might have a bigger foot than you or something lol.

Also, changing the clutch helper spring will help get rid of some of that rebound pushing your foot backwards.

That's what I do all the time. 4th on 30-45mph. Since the car is brand new I don't want to push anything. Also I'm not sure if is the stock noise but I hate to hear my engine screaming asking for gears. My 1st gear ask for more at 10-15mph. I've been switching all gears about 3-4K rpm.

I don't think you have a bigger foot. My clutch is really really up high. Like I have to let go all the way and just a tad bit at the end is when the gear engage it. And the kick back is ridiculous too. Is like if someone was kicking me on the foot. After a good 20 min ride my left leg HURTS !!!!