Clutch problems

Ron · 02-17-2012, 09:04 PM

So driving back home from work I decided to try something else. While the car was rolling I placed it in neutral and released the clutch. I then tried to engage a gear and it went in smoothly without forcing it! I let the car stop and go for the same gear again and it doesn't go in. So this issue only happens when the car is still. If the drivetrain is rotating then gears engage just fine. Does that tell you guys anything?

Joe@ZSpeed · 02-18-2012, 04:41 PM

Sounds like the disk is getting stuck on the splines or the pilot is grabbing the input shaft.

Ron · 02-18-2012, 04:42 PM

alright so it just confirms what you concluded before.

O&G · 02-19-2012, 09:41 AM

Johnny says it just needs adjusting. Everything was cleaned properly before install. Talked to him yesterday about it. Bring it by the shop when you have time. When do you plan on doin your TT install?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

Ron · 02-19-2012, 12:13 PM

I'll stop by tomorrow then. I was planning on the second week of march but if things come together I'll have it a week early. Still waiting on the exhaust.

Joe@ZSpeed · 02-19-2012, 05:20 PM

Guys I did a bit more fine tuning today with the adjustment procedure, Made a video for you also

This should resolve any adjustment issues you are having.

Picture below is of the Cruise switch adjustment at the top of the pedal bracket assy, On some cars this may be too far out not allowing the pedal to make a full return to the top and will not allow a full master cylinder stroke if out too far.

Adjust as shown first, This is pretty much mandatory.

After the cruise switch is adjusted, now adjust the master cylinder rod at the pedal as this video shows, Basically you want to back off the adjustment only until the clutch pedal closes the cruise shut off switch and you have slight play in the clevis/pedal attachment point.

Video

O&G · 02-19-2012, 05:46 PM

Awesome. Going to forward this to johnny! Thanks Joe

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

Ron · 04-03-2012, 06:56 PM

Update. Engine is out of the car and I got to see what happened to the clutch.

Joe@ZSpeed · 04-03-2012, 09:57 PM

Ron,

The burnt spot on the flywheel is from slippage under load, Excessive slippage is the only way you can make hot spots like that. It really doesn't look too bad but is definitely not broken in all the way yet.

Be sure to clean the spot on the flywheel off below the "USA" before putting the new clutch in.

Ron · 04-03-2012, 10:14 PM

Joe I never felt the clutch slipping nor did I drag it while driving. I did not push it in anyway on the 1k+ miles I drove it to break it in. Not once did I launch or redlined the car. The whole point of installing it before the TT was for this not to happen...

Of course I understand any customer would argue the same points but how I tell it is really what went down.

Once you get it back, how will you be able to tell what went wrong? Any specific test or procedure that can tell if the clutch had a problem?

I appreciate all the help you have provided all along and you getting out of your way to get this figured out. Hopefully we can put this to bed soon!

Boost_lee · 04-03-2012, 10:53 PM

Just curious ron, when they pulled the pressure plate off were all the bolts torqued pretty evenly? Doubt it was checked if removed by impact, or even if that could cause this issue, but I was just curious.

Joe@ZSpeed · 04-03-2012, 11:08 PM

The thing with kevlar is you can't feel it slip. When kevlar is new it does not hold it's rated TQ much like other clutches, It is just more particular about break in as it wears so long that it takes a lot of miles and use to get it to flatten out and seat in. As you can see it is only seated on the very outer part of the clutch disk. Once it levels off and begins to flatten out is when it will hold all of its rated TQ.

It will only slip a little and you just can't feel it unless you continue to do it then it will go away on you if you do it too much during break in.

I think the issue may be the spot on the flywheel where it looks to be raised up a bit from excessive heat.

The clutch will be checked over and put on a release/clamp load machine to see if everything is working properly. This checks pressure plate lift (release) and clamp load.
These are all checked before they go out as was this one to make sure they work before they go in the car, Something few companies do.

Most likely I will take care of you on this even if it is something you did unknowingly. I may just have you cover the ship on the new kit if we can't find a problem with the clutch itself other than the overheated part.

DIGItonium · 04-03-2012, 11:26 PM

Joe sent me a full face ceramic to replace the street disk that came with the OFE Stage 4 kit. I absolutely love this disk! Engagements are super smooth, easy to modulate, no judder, etc. I can make smooth fast shifts with no jolt. This car is an absolute joy to drive again.

The advice about bleeding the clutch line from the master made a big difference. The tech even had to unhinge the clutch pedal to further squeeze any air bubbles trapped in the master cylinder. It took about 2 hours to figure it all out (no pressure for awhile). Engagement is perfect, tip in is perfect (barely 0.5" of play, and it has a slightly springy resistance versus no pressure floppy feel). This is what you want! I drove all week and pressure remain the same regardless of temperature or how long I've driven it.

It has been over half a year, and I forgot how much fun this car is to drive. I finally made the 1-2 shift at high revs without grinding.

Overall, no more sticky gears, lurch, clunk, notchiness, etc. Drawback... 3rd gear synchros are starting to fail. Hope to get a new transmission soon.

Thanks, Joe. I'll box up the old disk tonight.

Ron · 04-04-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boost_lee

Just curious ron, when they pulled the pressure plate off were all the bolts torqued pretty evenly? Doubt it was checked if removed by impact, or even if that could cause this issue, but I was just curious.

We did not check when removing the bolts but I was there when it was being installed (for the most part) and did see them using a torque wrench to set those bolts to factory spec.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe@ZSpeed

The thing with kevlar is you can't feel it slip. When kevlar is new it does not hold it's rated TQ much like other clutches, It is just more particular about break in as it wears so long that it takes a lot of miles and use to get it to flatten out and seat in. As you can see it is only seated on the very outer part of the clutch disk. Once it levels off and begins to flatten out is when it will hold all of its rated TQ.

It will only slip a little and you just can't feel it unless you continue to do it then it will go away on you if you do it too much during break in.

I think the issue may be the spot on the flywheel where it looks to be raised up a bit from excessive heat.

The clutch will be checked over and put on a release/clamp load machine to see if everything is working properly. This checks pressure plate lift (release) and clamp load.
These are all checked before they go out as was this one to make sure they work before they go in the car, Something few companies do.

Most likely I will take care of you on this even if it is something you did unknowingly. I may just have you cover the ship on the new kit if we can't find a problem with the clutch itself other than the overheated part.

Understood. Can't really ask for more. Other vendors, take note!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

Joe sent me a full face ceramic to replace the street disk that came with the OFE Stage 4 kit. I absolutely love this disk! Engagements are super smooth, easy to modulate, no judder, etc. I can make smooth fast shifts with no jolt. This car is an absolute joy to drive again.

The advice about bleeding the clutch line from the master made a big difference. The tech even had to unhinge the clutch pedal to further squeeze any air bubbles trapped in the master cylinder. It took about 2 hours to figure it all out (no pressure for awhile). Engagement is perfect, tip in is perfect (barely 0.5" of play, and it has a slightly springy resistance versus no pressure floppy feel). This is what you want! I drove all week and pressure remain the same regardless of temperature or how long I've driven it.

It has been over half a year, and I forgot how much fun this car is to drive. I finally made the 1-2 shift at high revs without grinding.

Overall, no more sticky gears, lurch, clunk, notchiness, etc. Drawback... 3rd gear synchros are starting to fail. Hope to get a new transmission soon.

Thanks, Joe. I'll box up the old disk tonight.

So glad you got yours fixed Phuong. I know the feeling, I did not want to drive the car to work every morning because of this. I was not enjoying the Z at all. I can't wait to have mine back with new clutch and tranny!

DIGItonium · 04-04-2012, 08:22 AM

Definitely don't give up hope. Turbos and smooth shifting with the Z is so much fun even for daily driving. It sounds so good venting bov at half throttle and barely making 1 psi lol. Hopefully Nissan warranties the transmission... I spent touch money dealing with these issues the past several months and the last thing I want to deal with is grinding gears.

02-17-2012, 09:04 PM	#46 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	So driving back home from work I decided to try something else. While the car was rolling I placed it in neutral and released the clutch. I then tried to engage a gear and it went in smoothly without forcing it! I let the car stop and go for the same gear again and it doesn't go in. So this issue only happens when the car is still. If the drivetrain is rotating then gears engage just fine. Does that tell you guys anything? __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ] Last edited by Ron; 02-17-2012 at 11:51 PM.

02-18-2012, 04:41 PM	#47 (permalink)
Joe@ZSpeed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,304 Drives: Nissan Rep Power: 342999	Sounds like the disk is getting stuck on the splines or the pilot is grabbing the input shaft. __________________ http://photos.zspeedperformance.com/...ardsize=468x60 Phone *937-506-7224* E-Mail Sales@Zspeed.com www.ZSPEED.com

02-18-2012, 04:42 PM	#48 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	alright so it just confirms what you concluded before. __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

02-19-2012, 09:41 AM	#49 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 42 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 23	Johnny says it just needs adjusting. Everything was cleaned properly before install. Talked to him yesterday about it. Bring it by the shop when you have time. When do you plan on doin your TT install? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

02-19-2012, 12:13 PM	#50 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	I'll stop by tomorrow then. I was planning on the second week of march but if things come together I'll have it a week early. Still waiting on the exhaust. __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

02-19-2012, 05:20 PM	#51 (permalink)
Joe@ZSpeed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,304 Drives: Nissan Rep Power: 342999	Guys I did a bit more fine tuning today with the adjustment procedure, Made a video for you also This should resolve any adjustment issues you are having. Picture below is of the Cruise switch adjustment at the top of the pedal bracket assy, On some cars this may be too far out not allowing the pedal to make a full return to the top and will not allow a full master cylinder stroke if out too far. Adjust as shown first, This is pretty much mandatory. After the cruise switch is adjusted, now adjust the master cylinder rod at the pedal as this video shows, Basically you want to back off the adjustment only until the clutch pedal closes the cruise shut off switch and you have slight play in the clevis/pedal attachment point. Video __________________ http://photos.zspeedperformance.com/...ardsize=468x60 Phone *937-506-7224* E-Mail Sales@Zspeed.com www.ZSPEED.com

02-19-2012, 05:46 PM	#52 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 42 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 23	Awesome. Going to forward this to johnny! Thanks Joe Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

04-03-2012, 06:56 PM	#53 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	Update. Engine is out of the car and I got to see what happened to the clutch. __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

04-03-2012, 09:57 PM	#54 (permalink)
Joe@ZSpeed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,304 Drives: Nissan Rep Power: 342999	Ron, The burnt spot on the flywheel is from slippage under load, Excessive slippage is the only way you can make hot spots like that. It really doesn't look too bad but is definitely not broken in all the way yet. Be sure to clean the spot on the flywheel off below the "USA" before putting the new clutch in. __________________ http://photos.zspeedperformance.com/...ardsize=468x60 Phone *937-506-7224* E-Mail Sales@Zspeed.com www.ZSPEED.com

04-03-2012, 10:14 PM	#55 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	Joe I never felt the clutch slipping nor did I drag it while driving. I did not push it in anyway on the 1k+ miles I drove it to break it in. Not once did I launch or redlined the car. The whole point of installing it before the TT was for this not to happen... Of course I understand any customer would argue the same points but how I tell it is really what went down. Once you get it back, how will you be able to tell what went wrong? Any specific test or procedure that can tell if the clutch had a problem? I appreciate all the help you have provided all along and you getting out of your way to get this figured out. Hopefully we can put this to bed soon! __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

04-03-2012, 10:53 PM	#56 (permalink)
Boost_lee A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SATX Posts: 2,813 Drives: 09 370Z TT 6MT Rep Power: 29	Just curious ron, when they pulled the pressure plate off were all the bolts torqued pretty evenly? Doubt it was checked if removed by impact, or even if that could cause this issue, but I was just curious. __________________ My TT Z

04-03-2012, 11:08 PM	#57 (permalink)
Joe@ZSpeed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,304 Drives: Nissan Rep Power: 342999	The thing with kevlar is you can't feel it slip. When kevlar is new it does not hold it's rated TQ much like other clutches, It is just more particular about break in as it wears so long that it takes a lot of miles and use to get it to flatten out and seat in. As you can see it is only seated on the very outer part of the clutch disk. Once it levels off and begins to flatten out is when it will hold all of its rated TQ. It will only slip a little and you just can't feel it unless you continue to do it then it will go away on you if you do it too much during break in. I think the issue may be the spot on the flywheel where it looks to be raised up a bit from excessive heat. The clutch will be checked over and put on a release/clamp load machine to see if everything is working properly. This checks pressure plate lift (release) and clamp load. These are all checked before they go out as was this one to make sure they work before they go in the car, Something few companies do. Most likely I will take care of you on this even if it is something you did unknowingly. I may just have you cover the ship on the new kit if we can't find a problem with the clutch itself other than the overheated part. __________________ http://photos.zspeedperformance.com/...ardsize=468x60 Phone *937-506-7224* E-Mail Sales@Zspeed.com www.ZSPEED.com

04-03-2012, 11:26 PM	#58 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	Joe sent me a full face ceramic to replace the street disk that came with the OFE Stage 4 kit. I absolutely love this disk! Engagements are super smooth, easy to modulate, no judder, etc. I can make smooth fast shifts with no jolt. This car is an absolute joy to drive again. The advice about bleeding the clutch line from the master made a big difference. The tech even had to unhinge the clutch pedal to further squeeze any air bubbles trapped in the master cylinder. It took about 2 hours to figure it all out (no pressure for awhile). Engagement is perfect, tip in is perfect (barely 0.5" of play, and it has a slightly springy resistance versus no pressure floppy feel). This is what you want! I drove all week and pressure remain the same regardless of temperature or how long I've driven it. It has been over half a year, and I forgot how much fun this car is to drive. I finally made the 1-2 shift at high revs without grinding. Overall, no more sticky gears, lurch, clunk, notchiness, etc. Drawback... 3rd gear synchros are starting to fail. Hope to get a new transmission soon. Thanks, Joe. I'll box up the old disk tonight. __________________

04-04-2012, 08:22 AM	#60 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	Definitely don't give up hope. Turbos and smooth shifting with the Z is so much fun even for daily driving. It sounds so good venting bov at half throttle and barely making 1 psi lol. Hopefully Nissan warranties the transmission... I spent touch money dealing with these issues the past several months and the last thing I want to deal with is grinding gears. __________________

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