Clutch problems

Joe@ZSpeed · 02-17-2012, 11:35 AM

Do you hear the noise at .16 in the 2nd video when you try to put it in gear? That is almost for sure a damaged pilot bushing, I absolutely hate the nismo pilot bushing or any needle pilot.
They are very easy to damage during install.

The video has helped tremendously.

Once you get a gear you then have no issues going into gear, What this means is it is not the clutch dragging causing it. If the clutch was dragging it would do it over and over not just once.

You are getting the disk/splines and gears lined up when it finally goes in.

This is what is going on,
The pilot is damaged, My #1 guess. Please change this to a OE bronze type pilot when you pull it to do the turbo kit.

The input shaft spines were not clean and are causing the disk to bind on the input shaft, Once you get it in gear by forcing it slightly the disk moves and releases from the splines allowing it to be shifted easily after that.

If the clutch was not releasing fully it would never allow you to flip through the gears at idle even after you get it in the first gear.

Ron · 02-17-2012, 11:43 AM

Thanks Joe! It makes sense.. Can it wait till the install or should I avoid driving it like this? I don't care about transmission damage since it is gonna be replaced under warranty due to a 1st-2nd synchro acting up. I don't wanna damage the TZR disc though.

O&G · 02-17-2012, 11:45 AM

I know Johnny mentioned your clutch is made up of some different material and will make a lot of chatter and probably take 1k miles to break in. Typical twin disc issues. How many miles have you put on it. Go drive in stop and go traffic @ 5:00 pm today lol!

O&G · 02-17-2012, 11:46 AM

I retract my last statement, didn't see the recent post.

Ron · 02-17-2012, 11:48 AM

It's a single disc kevlar. I do remember Gabe playing with the needle pilot bushing trying to get it in.. he actually never took the stock one out until I told them it had to be replaced every time you change a clutch.

Ron · 02-17-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O&G

I retract my last statement, didn't see the recent post.

Joe@ZSpeed · 02-17-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron

Thanks Joe! It makes sense.. Can it wait till the install or should I avoid driving it like this? I don't care about transmission damage since it is gonna be replaced under warranty due to a 1st-2nd synchro acting up. I don't wanna damage the TZR disc though.

I don't think it will hurt the clutch or anything else besides the input shaft were the pilot bearing is riding on it and gouging it up if that is the issue.

I would like some pictures of the disk when it is pulled and before you put it back together, Just to make sure it is not damaged from the previous dragging when the air was in the system.

Joe@ZSpeed · 02-17-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O&G

I know Johnny mentioned your clutch is made up of some different material and will make a lot of chatter and probably take 1k miles to break in. Typical twin disc issues. How many miles have you put on it. Go drive in stop and go traffic @ 5:00 pm today lol!

When you say chatter, do you mean noise? Noise comes from the single mass flywheels, This only happens at below 2500 rpm under load and slightly off throttle when free revving the engine.

This clutch although rigid drives perfectly smooth if installed correctly and IMO drives way better than the stock clutch and DM flywheel.

O&G · 02-17-2012, 11:57 AM

I'm asking Johnny about it now, I'll call Gabe too and see what he has to say about it. Nismos and Sport share this pilot bushing?

Joe@ZSpeed · 02-17-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O&G

I'm asking Johnny about it now, I'll call Gabe too and see what he has to say about it. Nismos and Sport share this pilot bushing?

No stock nissan car that I know of come with a Nismo needle pilot. I have had many issues before with the needle pilots and always advise against them. No matter how careful you are with them they are just way to easy to damage during install.

O&G · 02-17-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe@ZSpeed

No stock nissan car that I know of come with a Nismo needle pilot. I have had many issues before with the needle pilots and always advise against them. No matter how careful you are with them they are just way to easy to damage during install.

Interesting, making note of this and thanks for the info!

Ron · 02-17-2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe@ZSpeed

I don't think it will hurt the clutch or anything else besides the input shaft were the pilot bearing is riding on it and gouging it up if that is the issue.

I would like some pictures of the disk when it is pulled and before you put it back together, Just to make sure it is not damaged from the previous dragging when the air was in the system.

I will do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O&G

I'm asking Johnny about it now, I'll call Gabe too and see what he has to say about it. Nismos and Sport share this pilot bushing?

Let me know man.. I don't really wanna drive like this... I don't wanna be a PITA customer (I could tell Gabe was annoyed every time I came back the same day bc pedal was not feeling right) and that is why I've been trying to figure this on my own with the help you guys and Joe...but hey if it was an install issue then I hope Johnny will honor it..

O&G · 02-17-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron

I don't wanna be a PITA customer (I could tell Gabe was annoyed every time I came back the same day bc pedal was not feeling right) and that is why I've been trying to figure this on my own with the help you guys and Joe...but hey if it was an install issue then I hope Johnny will honor it..

Of course he will, once a JTran customer you become family, Gabe just started working there and he mite have been giving you a hard time because he knows your friends w/ me, lol. Sounds like it could be the pilot bushing but I don't think your hurting anything by continuing to put miles on it, exspecially since your getting a new tranny and if it is pilot bushing it's going to get replaced regardless. The clutch spines were cleaned according to Gabe but as far as pilot bushing damage, I have no idea. I'd like to drive it myself and feel the issue as I'm sure Johnny will too.

Ron · 02-17-2012, 12:30 PM

Thanks Justin, appreciate it..Just let me know when to drop by.. I work Sat and get out at 7pm so I think that would be too late. I am off Sun, Mon, Tues.

I'll be there for your clutch install as well.

O&G · 02-17-2012, 12:38 PM

I'll be in touch, maybe Sat evening or Tuesday, you can always go by the shop Monday, but I'll be in San Antonio that day. Either way we will get it resolved.

02-17-2012, 11:35 AM	#31 (permalink)
Joe@ZSpeed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,304 Drives: Nissan Rep Power: 342999	Do you hear the noise at .16 in the 2nd video when you try to put it in gear? That is almost for sure a damaged pilot bushing, I absolutely hate the nismo pilot bushing or any needle pilot. They are very easy to damage during install. The video has helped tremendously. Once you get a gear you then have no issues going into gear, What this means is it is not the clutch dragging causing it. If the clutch was dragging it would do it over and over not just once. You are getting the disk/splines and gears lined up when it finally goes in. This is what is going on, The pilot is damaged, My #1 guess. Please change this to a OE bronze type pilot when you pull it to do the turbo kit. The input shaft spines were not clean and are causing the disk to bind on the input shaft, Once you get it in gear by forcing it slightly the disk moves and releases from the splines allowing it to be shifted easily after that. If the clutch was not releasing fully it would never allow you to flip through the gears at idle even after you get it in the first gear. __________________ http://photos.zspeedperformance.com/...ardsize=468x60 Phone *937-506-7224* E-Mail Sales@Zspeed.com www.ZSPEED.com Last edited by Joe@ZSpeed; 02-17-2012 at 11:39 AM.

02-17-2012, 11:43 AM	#32 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	Thanks Joe! It makes sense.. Can it wait till the install or should I avoid driving it like this? I don't care about transmission damage since it is gonna be replaced under warranty due to a 1st-2nd synchro acting up. I don't wanna damage the TZR disc though. __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

02-17-2012, 11:45 AM	#33 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 42 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 23	I know Johnny mentioned your clutch is made up of some different material and will make a lot of chatter and probably take 1k miles to break in. Typical twin disc issues. How many miles have you put on it. Go drive in stop and go traffic @ 5:00 pm today lol! __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

02-17-2012, 11:46 AM	#34 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 42 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 23	I retract my last statement, didn't see the recent post. __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

02-17-2012, 11:48 AM	#35 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	It's a single disc kevlar. I do remember Gabe playing with the needle pilot bushing trying to get it in.. he actually never took the stock one out until I told them it had to be replaced every time you change a clutch. __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

02-17-2012, 11:57 AM	#39 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 42 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 23	I'm asking Johnny about it now, I'll call Gabe too and see what he has to say about it. Nismos and Sport share this pilot bushing? __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

02-17-2012, 12:30 PM	#44 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	Thanks Justin, appreciate it..Just let me know when to drop by.. I work Sat and get out at 7pm so I think that would be too late. I am off Sun, Mon, Tues. I'll be there for your clutch install as well. __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

02-17-2012, 12:38 PM	#45 (permalink)
O&G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lone Star State Age: 42 Posts: 1,212 Drives: 40th Anv. Rep Power: 23	I'll be in touch, maybe Sat evening or Tuesday, you can always go by the shop Monday, but I'll be in San Antonio that day. Either way we will get it resolved. __________________ O&G's Build/Journal <---(1st lowmount single turbo treeseventy) Built Engine Thread 2011 F-250 Build/Journal

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