South Bend Clutch-bad install
 

Question;
I recently purchased the South Bend kevlar stage 2, south bend flywheel, and HD csc. It might be little too early to tell but not so sure. The kit has been installed for 400 miles. Well Ive dislike the engagement since day one it engages really high and I have like one inch of engagement and its within the first 3 inches of pushing the pedal in. I had the shop try to adjust it that same day but it only got worst so they put it back to where it was. Well now I can go into and come out of gear without the use of the clutch pedal and at stop light I can take off without the use clutch and go thru all 6 gears without touching the pedal with very little to no effort. All I was looking for was peace of mind because of the csc failure and also because I bought the car used and I had no clue how good the disc was. Well now im all kinds of paranoid because I just spent $1500 on a clutch that might be sticking or for some shop to do a bad install. Also has anyone experienced clattering/ chatter in low speeds in all gears. But once it hits 40 mph or 2500 in any gear it goes away. Is any of this common/ normal with aftermarket kits? Is it sticking? Bad install? Me being paranoid?
One thing I did do personally was changed the transmission fluid to ams oil 75w-90.
BTW ive tried these methods..
How To Lower Clutch pedal engagement in a Infiniti G37 or Nissan 370z
Clutch Adjustment - Nissan 350Z & 370Z Wiki
many thanks in advance.

I'm jealous you can row through the gears with little effort on the clutch pedal. Is it slipping? My car went in for the 4th time to raise the engagement point near the top to see if it improves gear shifting. On cold mornings, I can't even get in gear and the car crawls forward and back. I have to shift to another gear then back. After warming up it gets easier. Then on the 1-2 shift at high RPM, I can't get in 2nd or it grinds. I've not tested the car after yesterday's adjustment, but I'm still getting the hang of the higher engagement point (close to stock).

Loud chattering is normal especially if you switched out the flywheel to a one piece.

Thats a lot worst than mine bro. What im afraid is that i can put it in gear and drive away without the use of the clutch at all besides when starting car. I just read something about the clutch not disengaging and burning up. Your wanting yours higher and I want mine to be lower to the floor.
it is a one piece flywheel, it is loud And dont like it but i guess thats the price i got to pay to play. BUT quieter than stock.

That's correct. I guess we have the same flywheel. It sounds like a tractor doesn't it? Haha. It's not that bad and tolerable after awhile... interesting noise like hissing from HFC. With the VVEL actuator noise, it's like a percussive symphony.

Check master cylinder. Mine failed after getting the new clutch installed. See if they can air it out again or flush it.

Who did you order from? Joe?

Yes it does sounds like a tractor, what tripped me out was it only does below 2300-2500 rpm and when on the throttle. Like a dry and lose gear turning but as soon I let off the throttle it goes away.

What im looking for on the master?
Yea I got it from Joe.

I honestly don't know much about the master cylinder other than it failed. I'd love to be able to replace it with an aftermarket one. Joe says there is one in the works, but for the 350Z because the ABS module gets in the way of the new master in the 370Z. Joe should be able to answer your questions.

Since the engagement point is high and the clutch is disengaging, I don't think it's the master cylinder gone bad.

Two things come to mind.
1.)The CSC is installed incorrectly and doesn't have proper clearance in relation to the pressure plate fingers and is making contact all the time.
2.) The clutch is installed backwards and is slipping all the time and could explain the improper clearance with the CSC and pressure plate

Most importantly, talk to Joe and rely on his experience, which is far more than mine.

^ How's your engagement point? I had mine raised close to the top. The soft play is almost gone, and requires less than 1/2" travel before feeling resistance. Prior, it felt like 2" of soft play. Engagement is pretty smooth, and it takes a bit of time to get used to the higher engagement point.

If you can put the car in gear without using the clutch at all with the car sitting still something is not right, Sounds like it may be adjusted way to tight and holding pressure on the clutch fingers, This will quickly kill the clutch. Seems impossible to me that you could put the car in gear without using the clutch and still have the car be able to move. If the clutch is disengaged far enough that you could put it in gear with out using the clutch pedal the car would not move much, if at all.

Either something is wrong with the install, I am misunderstanding what your are saying or the clutch pedal is adjusted way out of spec.

The noise you hear is common with the single mass flywheels, Seems the 370z is even worse than the earlier 350z that acquire the same noise when going to a single mass flywheel, In our experience the SBC flywheel is the quietest of the lightweight flywheels. I have installed quite a few in the Z's and noticed very little if any noise out of the trans.


Is the trans fluid level full? What fluid did you use?

It's loud but quieter than stock?

Honestly i'm interested with this setup. But i think i'll wait till the problem is solved:tup:

Good luck op for solving the problem.

There are no problems with this set-up, It is simply a bad install or it is incorrectly adjusted. The high pedal engagement happens on the HR and VHR's with an aftermarket clutch.
We are working on this to see what can be done to be able to lower the engagement point without having the pedal drop.

If adjusted correctly, installed correctly, they work perfect.

I took y'alls advice and talked to Joe. Hes a great guy all ( gayness aside) lol I asked all kinds of questions. First I asked him about the going into gear without using the clutch. He said its very possible if rpms are at a certain level. Well mine was going in regardless of rpm as long as it was in motion. I asked him about the master. He said the stock is a piece of caca that when the stock one goes the pedal will just drops. He mention there MIGHT be an aftermarket in the works. I asked about the freeplay on the pedal at the very top and first half coming from the floor. he said its common because of the clamping power of the pressure plate. I asked him about the chatter/ clatter he said its to be expected when going from a heavier 2 piece flywheel with dampers to a lighter 1 piece without dampers. To me personally the south bend is little quieter or maybe just as loud as the stock at idle only. I asked for the break in milage for the kevlar and he said 500-700. Well after talking to him a couple days later as soon as I hit 550 I did a couple pulls on 2 to 3rd and 4th shifting @ 6500 it was fast and smooth engagement. After that the going into gears without using clutch wasnt there no more. Leads me to believe mine could of been sticking some. Also I asked Joe what he thought about removing the spring on the pedal. He said he would leave it on. He said it helps keeping the pedal down and coming up faster. So im leaving mine on. In conclusion I was wondering if any if had encountered any of this side effects from this kit. I have nothing negative to say about the kit or much less Joe. This kit is a total different animal and it took me some getting used after using the stock. Its really grabby but smooth under acceleration. Its a must have if stock goes out or grow scared like me cause all the slave cylinder horror stories.

Its definitely louder while driving low speeds and gears. But quiet at idle. For example 33mph in 5th clatter/ LIKE grinding noise but once car hits 2500-2600 rpms or 40 mph over all noise goes away. But after driving around a while the idle clatter is minimal.
Thanks.

Yes, below 2500 rpm there is a rattle from the trans, I stay out of that range most of the time ;) This is very common with the 1 piece solid flywheels.

Give me a call this eve, I have some info for you that will help with the bleeding issue. I found today where the air is getting trapped.
I tore my entire car down today and started from scratch much like you guys do to see what was going on with the bleeding and learned much from it.

I have had mine apart so many times before when setting all this up I wanted to go right from scratch so I can better help you all out. Went very well ;)

Can you share that info for all?

I found that the air is trapped at the master and believe this has been the issue for some of the guys in the 370Z, The HR 350'z don't seem to have much trouble bleeding the systems nor have I in those older models but the line set-ups are slightly different between the 2 cars.

I started with everything in stock position, Pedal adjustment ect.

I drained the system of fluid like you would when installing everything.

I then let it gravity bleed for about 20-25 minutes.

I tried the clutch and had some pressure at about half way point down, with quite a bit of slop at the top and a pedal that did not want to return all the way at times. Pump bled it a few times which seemed to actually make it worse.

At this point the system should have not had air but I knew it did.

I started breaking line connections loose in the left inner fender area to see if any air was present by watching the fluid come out of the nut part of the line. I did not find any here.

I then took the cover off above the master, Broke the line loose at the master cylinder about half way out until I saw fluid come out (Dropped the wrench and spent a good 20 minutes fishing it out later of the abyss down there (Hint, Do not drop wrench)

I then watched it for about 2-3 minutes as the air kept coming and spitting out of the connection. After about 2-3 minutes the air stopped coming out and turned to clear fluid, At this time I knew I had found the source of trapped air which will not bleed out easily no matter how long you spend pump bleeding it.

Tried the clutch again with much better results, Still had a bit if non return, kinda lazy coming back from about the 3/4 up position. I adjusted the master rod at the pedal until the threads are just about flush, or slightly below the back of the clevis nut (seat side) on the pedal. Pedal is now perfect with perfect return. You must retain some free play in the clevis, you cannot get the adjustment too tight.

I have now drove the car for about an hour total today and it is perfect. Perfect release, Perfect engagement, About half way in the up travel.

The TZR with the new DXD black flywheel is incredible ;)

Going from the heavier original southbend flywheel to the new lighter "Black" flywheel with the unsprung TZR clutch changed this car 100% taking of from a stop, I can actually take off now with out the stupid jerking like the stock clutch or replacement with sprung hub does. I found it almost impossible to take off smooth with the original stock clutch and DM flywheel, It got better with the last kit and original DXD flywheel but this is just a whole new animal and I am loving it.

I have this TZR in my 90 Twin Turbo also and really like it in that car, I am blown away with it in the 370. It is perfectly smooth from the get go and shifts incredible.

I finally got my car in the Nissan shop to get the ECM replaced and while it was there I had them do a complete clutch flush. They called it brake flush. I told them I had the clutch replaced and believed there was air trapped in the master or somewhere in the system. Long story short I fought them a little but they got it done and Im in love with the south bend clutch. I always like how quick it was to grab and how it worked but not the way it felt. Well now no more air. The pedal is firm, responsive, no more dead spots, spongy pedal, and goes into gear alot smoother. It cost me $132 with tax which i think its well worth it. I found out it had DOT 3 instead of DOT 4 thats why it would feel worst after driving the car in 80° + temperatures. So in conclusion it was a bad install cause of the wrong fluid and not properly bled. Thanks Joe for everything and for finding out what problem was.

Great to hear! You can use DOT 4 fluid in them, DOT 3 and DOT 4 are compatible, You just don't want to use a silicone based DOT 5 fluid.

southbend clutch sucked on my subaru. extreme shake and noise when coming out of 1st.

What clutch did you have? How they drive is totally dependent on the type of clutch material you choose. Often times people make the mistake of choosing the wrong clutch for there needs/wants and is why I always recommend if you are not sure what you need to call and ask before purchasing.

I am so glad I read this. I was wondering about the shutter/grind like noise coming out of 1st and 2nd at very low RPMS. I barely hear it over 2000 rpms.

I've recently also installed the south bend daily kit package for my z.

after 1000 km, the clutch feel slippage at high rpm and not really that grabby.

also, i'm losing power at 3000 rpm for few seconds (not always).

is it normal? or do i need to break in again?