7A Transmission...dare I commit heresy?

ImportConvert · 12-07-2011, 08:41 AM

I watched a few Youtubes and the 7A transmission looks like it can be controlled pretty easily. I no-longer can argue "Well, the manual allows more control" without feeling like a liar. It really doesn't for all intents and purposes.

I cannot shift as fast as an automatic.

I have owned a '95 Trans Am with an automatic and that broke me of ever owning one in a sports car again. When I beat on it some in 100* weather, it would get hot and start shifting mushily. At the "breaking point" between 3rd and 4th, if you were REEEAAALLLYYY gentle on the throttle, it would bounce between tq converter lock-up/4th/3rd unlocked. It made for a bumpy embarrassing and probably wear-inducing moment.

This isn't 1995. The 2012 370Z transmission is a lot better I am sure.

My question is this: Have any of you gone from manual to automatic and liked it better? I don't mean you lazy people who can't be troubled to shift. I do that without thinking. I mean from a feel/performance/"hey, this is so much quicker/more precise" standpoint?

I am against the auto because I feel that it will disconnect me from the driving experience. However, the 7A in the 370z is about as good as an auto gets without being a true DCT, and I cannot deny that it is indeed faster.

Also, has anyone tracked the auto? Does it overheat without the addition of another cooler? I hated that about my '95 Trans Am. It was good for maybe 2-3 WOT blasts in 100* heat and then you had to simmer down. My manuals...I just drive and drive and drive them.

Also, how is it when cold? My G20 has an auto (one of the shittiest known to man...) and if it's below 80* outside if I get on it before it is FULLY warmed up, it will hang between gears, shifting VEERRRRYYYY slow and I am sure tearing up the clutch bands as it rides 2nd and 3rd on the upshift until it FINALLY oozes on into 3rd. No, I am not talking about flogging it, I mean just pulling out into traffic and giving it enough gas to not gear rear-ended. Shifting at about 4500rpm (pretty low for the gutless stock SR20DE).

So...

...what quirks about the 7A would tick me off? Throttle delay even worse than the "drive-by-wire" in use with 99% of cars now? Delay on the freeway when stomping it in D? Not skipping gears when floored in 7th to a 3rd drop? Shift flare? Sluggish shifting when cold? Overheating on track-days without an additional cooler?

How does it feel in "manual"? You floor it and it's an instant connection like the stick, or the tq converter soaks up the "hit" and it feels sluggish from say, a 50mph punch compared to a manual?

Red__Zed · 12-07-2011, 09:10 AM

Wstar and wwjd are the only guys I know that track autos...might read their threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWJD

First track day at Big Willow. I managed a lap time of 1:36. I could push the car a bit harder if my didn't have rear spacers. I think 1:34 is capable for the stock form.

pros:
- Z1 coolers.
They worked like magic!
- Sport BBK and Endless MX72 pads
Very good.
- Chassis
From the stock form, the car is a bit under during high speed cornering and very stable during any type of turns. The only downside is a bit more body roll. I'm sure camber and front sway bar can get all these fixed. One of the best chassis out of the box.

cons:
- auto tranny.
The tranny is no good for racing. It wouldn't shift when the car is corning, or braking. The only way you can down shifting is when you doing northing with the car. SUCKS!!! Hopefully someone come out with some tranny software tuning.
- H&R rear spacers.
The worst product and the biggest mistake I ever made. They kept losing for entire day. I could drive more than 2 laps and came to the pit to re-torque them.
- RE050A pole position
These tires are OK, the grip is actually good. However, they can't handle heat. Normally 3 laps is OK, after that, they start to get slippery.
- Top end power delivery
The power is great in first 4th gears, but 5th gear and above has no power at all. I was doing 106-110 mph when exiting turn 9 at Big Willow, at the end of the long straight away, I could only get the car up to 122-123 mph range. WTF.

UPDATED with lap time sheet. Forget the list of the car, I was originally signed up both days for my M3, but unfortunately the M3 had technical issue on Sat. so I had to take the M3 back and drove the Z on Sun.

IMO, the auto in the z still doesn't hit as hard or give as much control as I want...BUT, if I was going to buy another z, it would probably be an auto, mostly due to disappointment with the 6mt.

ImportConvert · 12-07-2011, 10:07 AM

Good info! Has the logic been redone on the software, or not? What do you mean by doing nothing. Literal, or just no shifting at .9g?

Megan370z · 12-07-2011, 10:19 AM

I had my 7AT since 2 year now and been on the track as well,

the must thing is definatly to have trans oil cooler !

Red__Zed · 12-07-2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Good info! Has the logic been redone on the software, or not? What do you mean by doing nothing. Literal, or just no shifting at .9g?

That's wwjd's post, check with him. I dont have much time behind the wheel of an auto

Lug · 12-07-2011, 11:49 AM

"The power is great in first 4th gears, but 5th gear and above has no power at all. I was doing 106-110 mph when exiting turn 9 at Big Willow, at the end of the long straight away, I could only get the car up to 122-123 mph range. WTF."

5th gear is 1:1 above that is OD for gas savings, not for racing. Driver should never get about 5th gear in a race.

Jeffblue · 12-07-2011, 12:23 PM

I went from manual to Auto when i switched from my 370z to my bmw 335. I'm very happy with the transmission which is very fast shifting and solid, and i do not feel bored ever while i'm driving it. That being said, i only DD This car and never take it to cruise or joyride, and if you've always had your sports car being a manual, you will probably miss it. IMO the Z isn't powerful enough where you should be getting one transmission over the over because of speed or 1/4 mile times. Its great that people who prefer auto now no longer have to settle for a worse transmission. However if you have always had MT sports cars you'll miss driving stick, its simple as that. It seems like you prefer manual, and if i were you i wouldn't get auto just to get a few tenths faster in the 1/4 mile, since it seems like that is the only reason you'd be doing so.

ImportConvert · 12-07-2011, 12:44 PM

Well, I drove a 7A today. I will not be getting one. It took time to respond to inputs that rivaled my sluggish shifting abilities when not at WOT, and it was very indecisive compared to what I had hoped for. It's great, I'm sure, but not for me.

Even the sales rep looked at me kindof funny when I tipped into the throttle 1/3 at 30mph and the car revved, wound down, chose a gear, then selected another, and finally after whirring and bucking for about a full second and a half got with the program of accelerating moderately in the correct gear from 30mph. I can do better on my own.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Well, I drove a 7A today. I will not be getting one. It took time to respond to inputs that rivaled my sluggish shifting abilities when not at WOT, and it was very indecisive compared to what I had hoped for. It's great, I'm sure, but not for me.

Even the sales rep looked at me kindof funny when I tipped into the throttle 1/3 at 30mph and the car revved, wound down, chose a gear, then selected another, and finally after whirring and bucking for about a full second and a half got with the program of accelerating moderately in the correct gear from 30mph. I can do better on my own.

Did you try it in manual mode?

ImportConvert · 12-07-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Did you try it in manual mode?

Yes, I did not like the lag between input and shift with the paddles at partial throttle. It just didn't do it for me like the manual z's I have driven.

Jordo! · 12-07-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Yes, I did not like the lag between input and shift with the paddles at partial throttle. It just didn't do it for me like the manual z's I have driven.

You can tune it to shift even faster and firmer than Nissan did (i.e., no need for an altered valve body). Also has the rev match, which is bad ***.

Before you make a decision you should see if you can find someone with a tuned 7AT.

I only have two slight complaints:

1. the 7AT will automatically downshift if you are in the wrong gear as you drop revs -- thus you an never really be in the wrong gear.

You can certain manually downshift faster than the ECU will if you are entering a corner and will need to slow down, but I'd like to have the option to be in the wrong gear if I'm not paying attention

Really, it's a minor complaint. From the standpoint of being immersed in driving/racing, it's pretty handy to never be in the wrong gear if you slow down.

Of course, it won't upshift unless you command it.

2. If you want to down shift more than 1 gear it will occasionally hang just a bit, but I think that's more a matter of the VVEL logic playing catch up than the trans slowing down, tho, so it's possible that the MT does a little bogging too at times.

Otherwise, it's brilliant!

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 02:20 PM

Is the shift tuning you're talking about done with UpRev?

Jeffblue · 12-07-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

You can tune it to shift even faster and firmer than Nissan did (i.e., no need for an altered valve body). Also has the rev match, which is bad ***.

Before you make a decision you should see if you can find someone with a tuned 7AT.

I only have two slight complaints:

1. the 7AT will automatically downshift if you are in the wrong gear as you drop revs -- thus you an never really be in the wrong gear.

You can certain manually downshift faster than the ECU will if you are entering a corner and will need to slow down, but I'd like to have the option to be in the wrong gear if I'm not paying attention

Really, it's a minor complaint. From the standpoint of being immersed in driving/racing, it's pretty handy to never be in the wrong gear if you slow down.

Of course, it won't upshift unless you command it.

2. If you want to down shift more than 1 gear it will occasionally hang just a bit, but I think that's more a matter of the VVEL logic playing catch up than the trans slowing down, tho, so it's possible that the MT does a little bogging too at times.

Otherwise, it's brilliant!

or just get a manual and call it a day since its obvious that's what you want (@importconvert) you seem like the kind of guy that would really only get an automatic if it was a built automatic for a drag car or in a DD to put around town.

Jordo! · 12-07-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffblue

or just get a manual and call it a day since its obvious that's what you want (@importconvert) you seem like the kind of guy that would really only get an automatic if it was a built automatic for a drag car or in a DD to put around town.

I'm very happy with my 7AT. It's not as if the MT on this car is especially brilliant... I can always find something to nitpick about

Also, my auto is now tuned to shift even faster and firmer, so it's fantastic.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-07-2011, 02:24 PM

Having just learned how to drive manual recently, I sometimes wish my Z was a 6MT. Then I sit in traffic for like 90 mins and am glad I got the 7AT.

12-07-2011, 08:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	7A Transmission...dare I commit heresy? I watched a few Youtubes and the 7A transmission looks like it can be controlled pretty easily. I no-longer can argue "Well, the manual allows more control" without feeling like a liar. It really doesn't for all intents and purposes. I cannot shift as fast as an automatic. I have owned a '95 Trans Am with an automatic and that broke me of ever owning one in a sports car again. When I beat on it some in 100* weather, it would get hot and start shifting mushily. At the "breaking point" between 3rd and 4th, if you were REEEAAALLLYYY gentle on the throttle, it would bounce between tq converter lock-up/4th/3rd unlocked. It made for a bumpy embarrassing and probably wear-inducing moment. This isn't 1995. The 2012 370Z transmission is a lot better I am sure. My question is this: Have any of you gone from manual to automatic and liked it better? I don't mean you lazy people who can't be troubled to shift. I do that without thinking. I mean from a feel/performance/"hey, this is so much quicker/more precise" standpoint? I am against the auto because I feel that it will disconnect me from the driving experience. However, the 7A in the 370z is about as good as an auto gets without being a true DCT, and I cannot deny that it is indeed faster. Also, has anyone tracked the auto? Does it overheat without the addition of another cooler? I hated that about my '95 Trans Am. It was good for maybe 2-3 WOT blasts in 100* heat and then you had to simmer down. My manuals...I just drive and drive and drive them. Also, how is it when cold? My G20 has an auto (one of the shittiest known to man...) and if it's below 80* outside if I get on it before it is FULLY warmed up, it will hang between gears, shifting VEERRRRYYYY slow and I am sure tearing up the clutch bands as it rides 2nd and 3rd on the upshift until it FINALLY oozes on into 3rd. No, I am not talking about flogging it, I mean just pulling out into traffic and giving it enough gas to not gear rear-ended. Shifting at about 4500rpm (pretty low for the gutless stock SR20DE). So... ...what quirks about the 7A would tick me off? Throttle delay even worse than the "drive-by-wire" in use with 99% of cars now? Delay on the freeway when stomping it in D? Not skipping gears when floored in 7th to a 3rd drop? Shift flare? Sluggish shifting when cold? Overheating on track-days without an additional cooler? How does it feel in "manual"? You floor it and it's an instant connection like the stick, or the tq converter soaks up the "hit" and it feels sluggish from say, a 50mph punch compared to a manual?

12-07-2011, 10:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
Megan370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,156 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 24	I had my 7AT since 2 year now and been on the track as well, the must thing is definatly to have trans oil cooler ! __________________ Megan Journal Click Me ....................One Man Team Motorsport Click Me

12-07-2011, 11:49 AM	#6 (permalink)
Lug A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,926 Drives: 2006 350Z Rep Power: 20	"The power is great in first 4th gears, but 5th gear and above has no power at all. I was doing 106-110 mph when exiting turn 9 at Big Willow, at the end of the long straight away, I could only get the car up to 122-123 mph range. WTF." 5th gear is 1:1 above that is OD for gas savings, not for racing. Driver should never get about 5th gear in a race. __________________ keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs

12-07-2011, 02:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 142	Is the shift tuning you're talking about done with UpRev? __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

12-07-2011, 02:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
b1adesofcha0s A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: MD Posts: 40,963 Drives: HypeTrain Choo Choo! Rep Power: 142	Having just learned how to drive manual recently, I sometimes wish my Z was a 6MT. Then I sit in traffic for like 90 mins and am glad I got the 7AT. __________________ Project: b1adeZmobile (2009 370Z) \| Uprev Tune by AAM Competition \| Berk Exhaust Project: b1adeZmobile 2.0 (2014 C7 Z51) \| Corsa Xtreme Exhaust

12-07-2011, 10:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	Good info! Has the logic been redone on the software, or not? What do you mean by doing nothing. Literal, or just no shifting at .9g?

12-07-2011, 12:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 38	I went from manual to Auto when i switched from my 370z to my bmw 335. I'm very happy with the transmission which is very fast shifting and solid, and i do not feel bored ever while i'm driving it. That being said, i only DD This car and never take it to cruise or joyride, and if you've always had your sports car being a manual, you will probably miss it. IMO the Z isn't powerful enough where you should be getting one transmission over the over because of speed or 1/4 mile times. Its great that people who prefer auto now no longer have to settle for a worse transmission. However if you have always had MT sports cars you'll miss driving stick, its simple as that. It seems like you prefer manual, and if i were you i wouldn't get auto just to get a few tenths faster in the 1/4 mile, since it seems like that is the only reason you'd be doing so.

12-07-2011, 12:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7627	Well, I drove a 7A today. I will not be getting one. It took time to respond to inputs that rivaled my sluggish shifting abilities when not at WOT, and it was very indecisive compared to what I had hoped for. It's great, I'm sure, but not for me. Even the sales rep looked at me kindof funny when I tipped into the throttle 1/3 at 30mph and the car revved, wound down, chose a gear, then selected another, and finally after whirring and bucking for about a full second and a half got with the program of accelerating moderately in the correct gear from 30mph. I can do better on my own.

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