complete engine overhaul questions.

Red__Zed · 11-26-2011, 05:22 PM

theDreamer · 11-26-2011, 05:23 PM

And to answer some of your question:
I have a Stage I SC from GTM making 100% claimed power GTM stated. I am sitting at 400whp and I started at 270whp bone stock. Not sure where you are reading or getting your information, but both Stillen & GTM have provided exactly whay they claimed with their SC kits.

For 7k, 130whp is a pretty good bargain compared to other parts you can buy. You would spend easily 20k doing your NA build and honestly you will not see 500whp, 500 crank might be possible but then you are down to 450whp or less which makes for a horrible investment compared to what other options there are.

Skeeterbop · 11-26-2011, 05:42 PM

Honestly, this is kind of annoying. Any time somebody talks about an NA build they get bashed (maybe bashed is a bit extreme) for thinking outside the established norm. I have thought about it and will eventually build myself an NA motor. I have yet to see a build that cracks the engine open. All the NA cars I've seen are usually just bolt ons, not a full build in my book. Is it going to take a lot of money? Heck yeah it will, but whether it is worth it or not is strictly down to the owner of the car in question. Who knows what can be done until somebody tries it. Also, if you get done building the engine and it doesn't make the power wanted you could still slap on a TT and know that your internals are strong enough for a bit of boost. The biggest reason there isn't a proven route with NA is because most (ok nearly everyone) people go the easy route with a TT/SC (not saying it is necessarily easy, just easier than a fully built NA setup).

370Zsteve · 11-26-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeeterbop

Honestly, this is kind of annoying. Any time somebody talks about an NA build they get bashed (maybe bashed is a bit extreme) for thinking outside the established norm. I have thought about it and will eventually build myself an NA motor. I have yet to see a build that cracks the engine open. All the NA cars I've seen are usually just bolt ons, not a full build in my book. Is it going to take a lot of money? Heck yeah it will, but whether it is worth it or not is strictly down to the owner of the car in question. Who knows what can be done until somebody tries it. Also, if you get done building the engine and it doesn't make the power wanted you could still slap on a TT and know that your internals are strong enough for a bit of boost. The biggest reason there isn't a proven route with NA is because most (ok nearly everyone) people go the easy route with a TT/SC (not saying it is necessarily easy, just easier than a fully built NA setup).

In for updates

theDreamer · 11-26-2011, 05:59 PM

Skeeter, it is not us trying to put him down, the OP seems to be incorrect on some facts which might alter his choice.
On the topic of NA builds, I think it is because most people view the value of a TT/SC over a 20k NA build to reach the same point. Also, some of the parts needed will have to be one off parts at this point as no one is selling certain items yet. This limits who will jump into this boat which sucks for all Z owners, but it takes money.

KingZee · 11-26-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Skeeter, it is not us trying to put him down, the OP seems to be incorrect on some facts which might alter his choice.
On the topic of NA builds, I think it is because most people view the value of a TT/SC over a 20k NA build to reach the same point. Also, some of the parts needed will have to be one off parts at this point as no one is selling certain items yet. This limits who will jump into this boat which sucks for all Z owners, but it takes money.

The argument of whether it's possible or not seems to be the focus but it shouldn't be, the question for me is, is trying even worth it? Why TRY to build an NA for $20k when there are proven ways to do it for $7k? Cause you don't like the sound of the engine? To each his own I guess.

theDreamer · 11-26-2011, 06:04 PM

Also, the 20k number used is a rough estimate based on basic bolt ons and some forged internals.

Skeeterbop · 11-26-2011, 06:06 PM

haha, you may be waiting a while, I want to pay off the car before i do something like this, which hopefully will be in the next year or so. I have found long blocks for ~$2k used through various junk yards. I would like to think some parts that would be replaced could be resold to save a little on the expenses, but I'm not counting on it. When I get around to it though, I plan on not stroking it out and possibly replace the VVEL with a cam (maybe use the VQ35heads?). My plan isn't for ultimate power gains though, rather I want to make as responsive an engine as possible and I think that by replacing the internal bits with stronger and lighter bits will aid me in that goal. I'm not entirely closed to the TT/SC option, but i want to see what can be done with a NA setup first. Then if i do go boosted the internals are more than capable of anything I would want to throw at them. Keep

and maybe in a few years I'll have something to show you

Skeeterbop · 11-26-2011, 06:09 PM

Good points from all. I know if i wanted all out power, I would go with a TT from the start. I guess that's where I differ from most. I could care less if after I'm finished it has 300hp or 500hp, all I'll be looking for is revs

and any hp increase will be a bonus. And yes, any NA build at this point is looking at a few expensive one off items (especially if you replace the VVEL)

KingZee · 11-26-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeeterbop

Good points from all. I know if i wanted all out power, I would go with a TT from the start. I guess that's where I differ from most. I could care less if after I'm finished it has 300hp or 500hp, all I'll be looking for is revs

and any hp increase will be a bonus. And yes, any NA build at this point is looking at a few expensive one off items (especially if you replace the VVEL)

Ok, your goals are vastly different from OP's. What you're saying actually makes sense.

theDreamer · 11-26-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingZee

Ok, your goals are vastly different from OP's. What you're saying actually makes sense.

What...no, NA builds are crazy.

Skeeterbop · 11-26-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

What...no, NA builds are crazy.

"I don't know Karate, but I do know Karazy and I will use it!" lol

KingZee · 11-26-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeeterbop

"I don't know Karate, but I do know Karazy and I will use it!" lol

Jeffblue · 11-26-2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeeterbop

Also, if you get done building the engine and it doesn't make the power wanted you could still slap on a TT and know that your internals are strong enough for a bit of boost. The biggest reason there isn't a proven route with NA is because most (ok nearly everyone) people go the easy route with a TT/SC (not saying it is necessarily easy, just easier than a fully built NA setup).

The one thing you are forgetting is that typically an NA motor, especially a built NA motor, designed to rev really high has a high compression ratio. If it doesn't make the power you want you can't just 'slap' turbos on. High compression and boost aren't a good combination. You could put turbos on but wouldn't be able to run much boost. a built NA motor is different than a 'built' motor for FI.

Skeeterbop · 11-26-2011, 08:02 PM

I'm going to go find these white papers you mention, I'm curious to see what they say. If you already have links or might be able to point me in the right direction that would be awesome. I'm off to google for a bit!

11-26-2011, 05:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	And to answer some of your question: I have a Stage I SC from GTM making 100% claimed power GTM stated. I am sitting at 400whp and I started at 270whp bone stock. Not sure where you are reading or getting your information, but both Stillen & GTM have provided exactly whay they claimed with their SC kits. For 7k, 130whp is a pretty good bargain compared to other parts you can buy. You would spend easily 20k doing your NA build and honestly you will not see 500whp, 500 crank might be possible but then you are down to 450whp or less which makes for a horrible investment compared to what other options there are. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

11-26-2011, 05:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
Skeeterbop A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Fort Bliss, TX Age: 41 Posts: 1,440 Drives: 2011 GM 370 base SP Rep Power: 17	Honestly, this is kind of annoying. Any time somebody talks about an NA build they get bashed (maybe bashed is a bit extreme) for thinking outside the established norm. I have thought about it and will eventually build myself an NA motor. I have yet to see a build that cracks the engine open. All the NA cars I've seen are usually just bolt ons, not a full build in my book. Is it going to take a lot of money? Heck yeah it will, but whether it is worth it or not is strictly down to the owner of the car in question. Who knows what can be done until somebody tries it. Also, if you get done building the engine and it doesn't make the power wanted you could still slap on a TT and know that your internals are strong enough for a bit of boost. The biggest reason there isn't a proven route with NA is because most (ok nearly everyone) people go the easy route with a TT/SC (not saying it is necessarily easy, just easier than a fully built NA setup). __________________ Srenity: "Yeah no rest needed to spread the love when your 20 that's for sure...."

11-26-2011, 05:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	Skeeter, it is not us trying to put him down, the OP seems to be incorrect on some facts which might alter his choice. On the topic of NA builds, I think it is because most people view the value of a TT/SC over a 20k NA build to reach the same point. Also, some of the parts needed will have to be one off parts at this point as no one is selling certain items yet. This limits who will jump into this boat which sucks for all Z owners, but it takes money. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

11-26-2011, 06:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	Also, the 20k number used is a rough estimate based on basic bolt ons and some forged internals. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

11-26-2011, 06:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
Skeeterbop A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Fort Bliss, TX Age: 41 Posts: 1,440 Drives: 2011 GM 370 base SP Rep Power: 17	haha, you may be waiting a while, I want to pay off the car before i do something like this, which hopefully will be in the next year or so. I have found long blocks for ~$2k used through various junk yards. I would like to think some parts that would be replaced could be resold to save a little on the expenses, but I'm not counting on it. When I get around to it though, I plan on not stroking it out and possibly replace the VVEL with a cam (maybe use the VQ35heads?). My plan isn't for ultimate power gains though, rather I want to make as responsive an engine as possible and I think that by replacing the internal bits with stronger and lighter bits will aid me in that goal. I'm not entirely closed to the TT/SC option, but i want to see what can be done with a NA setup first. Then if i do go boosted the internals are more than capable of anything I would want to throw at them. Keep and maybe in a few years I'll have something to show you __________________ Srenity: "Yeah no rest needed to spread the love when your 20 that's for sure...."

11-26-2011, 05:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120

11-26-2011, 06:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
Skeeterbop A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Fort Bliss, TX Age: 41 Posts: 1,440 Drives: 2011 GM 370 base SP Rep Power: 17	Good points from all. I know if i wanted all out power, I would go with a TT from the start. I guess that's where I differ from most. I could care less if after I'm finished it has 300hp or 500hp, all I'll be looking for is revs and any hp increase will be a bonus. And yes, any NA build at this point is looking at a few expensive one off items (especially if you replace the VVEL) __________________ Srenity: "Yeah no rest needed to spread the love when your 20 that's for sure...."

11-26-2011, 08:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
Skeeterbop A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Fort Bliss, TX Age: 41 Posts: 1,440 Drives: 2011 GM 370 base SP Rep Power: 17	I'm going to go find these white papers you mention, I'm curious to see what they say. If you already have links or might be able to point me in the right direction that would be awesome. I'm off to google for a bit! __________________ Srenity: "Yeah no rest needed to spread the love when your 20 that's for sure...."

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Complete Audio Overhaul Baby!	hardroc86	Audio & Video	16	12-10-2011 09:23 PM
Engine questions	lostzy	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	36	08-11-2011 08:42 PM
Pic request: 370z engine bay w/stillen g3's and Seibon engine cover.	atx370z	Nissan 370Z Photos / Spyshots / Video / Media Gallery	20	01-05-2011 12:50 PM
Questions, questions and more questions for a potential 370z buyer!	tag824	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	67	09-18-2010 12:07 AM
Exterior overhaul pending credit card approval...thoughts please!	CinZinnati	Exterior & Interior	11	06-04-2010 11:22 PM