Throttle Response: DE/HR vs VHR

DIGItonium · 10-02-2011, 03:52 PM

So I'm not crazy after all! VVEL sounds like great technology. It offers great smoothness and consistency in power delivery especially for forced induction, and it pulls hard to redline. However, it appears the biggest tradeoff is throttle response. That's the one thing I really miss coming from the DE.

I had the opportunity to test drive my friend's '08 350Z, and he had a thrill of a test drive in my force-fed 370Z.

We started up the car and revved it in neutral. I barely touch the throttle in the 350Z, and it quickly revved to 2k as if it has a lightened flywheel. Since I'm not used to it, it feels a bit touchy on tip in. I don't think the 370Z can rev this quick. On for a test drive, I got in 1st and kept the revs under 2k. I tapped the throttle and literally broke loose before the revs touch 3k. This is with VDC disabled.

Of course, this is where it feels different. I opened it up a bit and expected more power beyond 3k. It's a slightly vague feeling over the 370Z (off boost), but there is still an immediate response of the accelerator pedal to the throttles.

It would be nice to have my ECU throttle tables tweaked to get this feeling back. It would make the 370Z (force-fed or not) so more fun to drive.

djpathfinder · 10-02-2011, 05:03 PM

Have you heard of or read on here about a device called Sprint Booster? Some owners, even after forced induction claim that it helps to eliminate throttle lag.

tranceformer · 10-02-2011, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djpathfinder

Have you heard of or read on here about a device called Sprint Booster? Some owners, even after forced induction claim that it helps to eliminate throttle lag.

IIRC that only increases the pedal sensitivity, not throttle lag?

I agree withe the OP, my old '05 DE 350Z had better throttle response. How much I'm not sure but that's one of the few things I miss from it.

djpathfinder · 10-02-2011, 07:34 PM

Did the 350Z's have throttle by cable or by wire, like the 370's?

tranceformer · 10-02-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djpathfinder

Did the 350Z's have throttle by cable or by wire, like the 370's?

drive by wire

christian370z · 10-02-2011, 07:47 PM

I guess that is the trade off of not actually using the throttle bodies and letting VVEL act as the throttle. Sometimes I like how progressive and smooth power delivery is but other times, it feels too relaxed and undramatic.

Fingers cross for a VVEL controller and that it could help out engine response!

DIGItonium · 10-02-2011, 09:57 PM

Exactly. I believe UpRev makes available the throttle tables. I think "wstar" made a post about tweaking the table for better response, but it can get finicky.

It feels like our pedal simply provides inputs and the ECU determines how much it thinks the throttle position should be for efficiency, emissions, fuel economy, etc. Instead, we expect it to be 1:1.

It's almost like electric power steering. In my parent's '11 Sonata 2.0t, there's no confidence making turns because the steering feels numb and has a mind of its own.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2011, 10:16 PM

definitely have noticed the same thing driving the 350s. I think part of it is in the way the 350 ECU responded, and the throttle tables, etc...but I think part of it is just the engine's nature. I think the VHR is just slow down low.

DIGItonium · 10-02-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I think the VHR is just slow down low.

IIRC, the HR and VHR are very closely related. I think the difference is with the heads.

Jordo! · 10-02-2011, 10:32 PM

In theory you can advance the timing on tip in, which should give quicker response... I'm going to try experimenting with that next time assuming there's a table for it.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

IIRC, the HR and VHR are very closely related. I think the difference is with the heads.

yeah, they are. The HR was notably slower than the DE too. I feel like the VHR was even slower than the HR, but it's hard to say...sometimes it is just in your head

DIGItonium · 10-02-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

yeah, they are. The HR was notably slower than the DE too. I feel like the VHR was even slower than the HR, but it's hard to say...sometimes it is just in your head

I didn't get to push the HR hard, but it was enough to tell the difference in the lower revs. Although it ramps up slower, I can feel the power in the VHR. The HR feels like it has a lighter flywheel and is much more eager to rev. The throttle is definitely very touchy, so perhaps the VHR dampened the touchy throttle.

One thing I know for sure is that the throttle response in the DE/HR remains the same regardless of temperature even after a long drive. The VHR throttle response appears to worsen after a long day of driving.

cossie1600 · 10-03-2011, 08:43 AM

It's the VVEL, you can feel the cams working

Davey · 10-03-2011, 09:22 AM

I feel like an LS6 swap is the cure for this throttle issue.

roplusbee · 10-03-2011, 10:02 AM

Wow. So wassup with the UPREV throttle tweak?

10-02-2011, 03:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	Throttle Response: DE/HR vs VHR So I'm not crazy after all! VVEL sounds like great technology. It offers great smoothness and consistency in power delivery especially for forced induction, and it pulls hard to redline. However, it appears the biggest tradeoff is throttle response. That's the one thing I really miss coming from the DE. I had the opportunity to test drive my friend's '08 350Z, and he had a thrill of a test drive in my force-fed 370Z. We started up the car and revved it in neutral. I barely touch the throttle in the 350Z, and it quickly revved to 2k as if it has a lightened flywheel. Since I'm not used to it, it feels a bit touchy on tip in. I don't think the 370Z can rev this quick. On for a test drive, I got in 1st and kept the revs under 2k. I tapped the throttle and literally broke loose before the revs touch 3k. This is with VDC disabled. Of course, this is where it feels different. I opened it up a bit and expected more power beyond 3k. It's a slightly vague feeling over the 370Z (off boost), but there is still an immediate response of the accelerator pedal to the throttles. It would be nice to have my ECU throttle tables tweaked to get this feeling back. It would make the 370Z (force-fed or not) so more fun to drive. __________________

10-02-2011, 05:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
djpathfinder A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 12,910 Drives: 2012 GT-R BE Rep Power: 733	Have you heard of or read on here about a device called Sprint Booster? Some owners, even after forced induction claim that it helps to eliminate throttle lag. __________________ 2012 GT-R Black Edition Jet Black 2010 370Z 40th Anniversary // SOLD

10-02-2011, 07:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
djpathfinder A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 12,910 Drives: 2012 GT-R BE Rep Power: 733	Did the 350Z's have throttle by cable or by wire, like the 370's? __________________ 2012 GT-R Black Edition Jet Black 2010 370Z 40th Anniversary // SOLD

10-02-2011, 07:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
christian370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 3,900 Drives: 2010 370Z/Saab 900se Rep Power: 432	I guess that is the trade off of not actually using the throttle bodies and letting VVEL act as the throttle. Sometimes I like how progressive and smooth power delivery is but other times, it feels too relaxed and undramatic. Fingers cross for a VVEL controller and that it could help out engine response! __________________ -320whp / 259wftlbs- SP Rays -- RE-11s -- SpecialtyZ Tune -- Swift Springs -- Stillen 25R Oil Cooler -- Stillen G3 Intakes -- Berk HFCs -- F.I. 12" CBE -- Stillen Sway Bars -- Es14 Spring -- INGS+1 lip -- CF Spoiler -- GTR Start Button -- VLED Parking Lights -- PWJDM V2 shift knob

10-02-2011, 09:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	Exactly. I believe UpRev makes available the throttle tables. I think "wstar" made a post about tweaking the table for better response, but it can get finicky. It feels like our pedal simply provides inputs and the ECU determines how much it thinks the throttle position should be for efficiency, emissions, fuel economy, etc. Instead, we expect it to be 1:1. It's almost like electric power steering. In my parent's '11 Sonata 2.0t, there's no confidence making turns because the steering feels numb and has a mind of its own. __________________

10-02-2011, 10:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 120	definitely have noticed the same thing driving the 350s. I think part of it is in the way the 350 ECU responded, and the throttle tables, etc...but I think part of it is just the engine's nature. I think the VHR is just slow down low.

10-02-2011, 10:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	In theory you can advance the timing on tip in, which should give quicker response... I'm going to try experimenting with that next time assuming there's a table for it. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

10-03-2011, 08:43 AM	#13 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	It's the VVEL, you can feel the cams working

10-03-2011, 09:22 AM	#14 (permalink)
Davey A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,766 Drives: '15 NISMO 6MT Rep Power: 117171	I feel like an LS6 swap is the cure for this throttle issue.

10-03-2011, 10:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
roplusbee A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Killeen, TX Posts: 2,360 Drives: 2007 350Z NISMO Rep Power: 23	Wow. So wassup with the UPREV throttle tweak? __________________ 2007 350Z NISMO #0618: Zerolift \| UPREV \| F.I. \| Greddy \| Competition Clutch \| Injector Dynamics \| Aeromotive \| Pioneer \| JL

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