Oil type and temp Questions (houston area)

MattP725 · 09-08-2011, 02:13 PM

Oil can operate safely below 200... I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing the motor below 170 though. It will take longer to heat up with the cooler even with the thermostatic plate. The plate is never fully valved off.

Some people on the forum have cars that run at 180 without a cooler so you don't need to be over 200. Obviously you need to find a happy medium because even though a 34 row can cool faster, you are going to have issues warming up the engine under normal driving conditions if it isn't warm out. See modshacks DIY, he had to make a block off plate and I think he only used a 24-25 row. I might need to do the same when winter time comes (although I won't be driving the Z much in the winter).

SPOHN · 09-08-2011, 02:41 PM

Modshacks writeup is a litte different from mine but you check out my writeup for different options.

DIY: Oil Cooler Block Off Plate

roy'sz · 09-08-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

To make money and make a living?

You might want to take some chem classes and see how oil works before you preach about how great a giant oil cooler is for a street driven car.

hahaha, i used to test oil in the navy smart guy. maybe you should do some research online as far as what could cause sludge build up on oil before you go runnin your mough. also being that i got a 34 row cooler is an obivious sign of more mods to come and a cushion for the amount of heat my car will be putting out.

roy'sz · 09-08-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattP725

Oil can operate safely below 200... I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing the motor below 170 though. It will take longer to heat up with the cooler even with the thermostatic plate. The plate is never fully valved off.

Some people on the forum have cars that run at 180 without a cooler so you don't need to be over 200. Obviously you need to find a happy medium because even though a 34 row can cool faster, you are going to have issues warming up the engine under normal driving conditions if it isn't warm out. See modshacks DIY, he had to make a block off plate and I think he only used a 24-25 row. I might need to do the same when winter time comes (although I won't be driving the Z much in the winter).

I thought so, I know that the lesl extreme heat you have on your oil can equal a longer life span of the oil. Not by much but it is noticeable. Before my cooler within 1500 miles my oil was gettin pretty dark. I have that amount on now and it is starting to change color a bit. How long witht he mocal plate are you talking warmup time? I let mine run about 15 min and it gets up to about 160. With a little street driving it gets to 175 and when I hit the freeway coming home at night it plumits. I got the mocal just waiting on the fittings to arrive.

MattP725 · 09-08-2011, 03:16 PM

I'd say 5-10 to get up to the 160+ region @ idle, I just take it easy until the engine is warm when I am driving...

You just want to make sure your operating temp is sufficient not your idle warmup time. Every car needs time for the oil to warmup, cooler or not... general public doesn't wait for their car to get to operating temp before driving.

The sandwhich plate will keep your flow lower until you reach 180. If your not reaching 180 under normal driving conditions that could signal that you have too big a cooler and need to make a block off plate since your not even getting the effectiveness of full flow.

I would bet that the extra qt to qt and a half is enough to already dissapate some of the heat before you even get to the cooler.

roy'sz · 09-08-2011, 03:22 PM

yeah I agree with that. Has anybody tried swapping out the spring on the mocal plate to allow for more a slight amount of more heat? My problem is i work nights so I see both sides of the coin where as most people drive during the day to and from work. I think its funny coolant only takes 2 minutes but oil seems forever. How much oil is on the dipstick at the high mark? The dealership filled it to that level and i thought it would be a great place to have it so I can track oil levels for issues like burn off. And you are right about that added quart.

Zaggeron · 09-08-2011, 06:10 PM

Are you guys really warming up your car for 5-15 minutes before driving? That's some tough love man -- most modern cars need little to no warm-up time in normal weather and perhaps a minute or so in cold weather.

MattP725 · 09-08-2011, 06:31 PM

Don't mess with the spring, if it is below 180 it isn't opened anyhow so you won't notice a benefit... there is no way to fully close the system (and I'm not sure you'd want to have old oil just sitting in the cooler not rotating). If you are really overcooling switch out to a 25 row or do the blockoff plate. I am sure you will get track enthusiasts on the site that would be willing to trade up to the 34 in exchange.

SPOHN · 09-08-2011, 06:35 PM

I defiantly warm mine for at least 15 to 20 minutes being I have a oil cooler and oil pressure gauge. The gauge has let me see some high pressure up to 130psi when the oil is cold or even at 150 degrees when going down the road at 2.5K RPM's. But as soon as temps hit near 180 degrees it doesn't go past 90-95psi.

So that being said and having a oil cooler I feel it's best to let it warm for who knows how much an aftermarket oil cooler fittings can take over time at those pressures. If it was just the motor I wouldn't think much of it.

Zaggeron · 09-08-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

I defiantly warm mine for at least 15 to 20 minutes being I have a oil cooler and oil pressure gauge. The gauge has let me see some high pressure up to 130psi when the oil is cold or even at 150 degrees when going down the road at 2.5K RPM's. But as soon as temps hit near 180 degrees it doesn't go past 90-95psi.

So that being said and having a oil cooler I feel it's best to let it warm for who knows how much an aftermarket oil cooler fittings can take over time at those pressures. If it was just the motor I wouldn't think much of it.

If you are really letting it idle for 15 to 20 minutes before driving, you may be trading wear from overheated oil for wear related to unburnt fuel in the intakes and the host of other issues that accompany long periods of engine idle -- idling is not good for the engine.

There's a bunch of discussion of this on the interwebs, but this is a pretty good synopsis

Warm up the car by idling › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science (ABC Science)

Quote:

Idling an engine is bad in so many ways. The fuel is not completely burnt, so it condenses in drops on the cylinder walls. This leads to both extra wear of the cylinder walls (because the fuel washes the lubricating oil off the walls), and unburnt fuel flowing down the walls and contaminating the oil in the sump. Idling also drops the temperature of the spark plugs, leading to dirty plugs, which can worsen your fuel consumption by some five per cent.

Lug · 09-08-2011, 06:59 PM

College Station huh? You sure your car is not on fire?

Seriously, run your car for a few thousand mile before doing anything. I've seen several people say that after breakin, cars run a bit cooler and use less oil.

SPOHN · 09-08-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

If you are really letting it idle for 15 to 20 minutes before driving, you may be trading wear from overheated oil for wear related to unburnt fuel in the intakes and the host of other issues that accompany long periods of engine idle -- idling is not good for the engine.

There's a bunch of discussion of this on the interwebs, but this is a pretty good synopsis

Warm up the car by idling › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science (ABC Science)

In all honesty I feel the article is driven towards being an environmentalist. Which nothing is wrong with that. But I fail to see how it could be that detrimental to engine wear. If any it's mild, especially with our modern day motors and the technology behind them. It's no big deal for me.

I'll take over idealing over a blown oil cooler line fitting.

MattP725 · 09-08-2011, 08:20 PM

I'll let it sit for 5 min but really not much more unless I am checking for leaks or simply doing something else.

Zaggeron · 09-08-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

In all honesty I feel the article is driven towards being an environmentalist. Which nothing is wrong with that. But I fail to see how it could be that detrimental to engine wear. If any it's mild, especially with our modern day motors and the technology behind them. It's no big deal for me.

I'll take over idealing over a blown oil cooler line fitting.

I did notice the enviro-bent, but I don't think that was the thrust. Most of the major points relating to wear I posted in that quote.

The general consensus nowadays is that the old conventional wisdom of letting the car reach operating temperatures via letting it sit and idle doesn't apply to most modern cars -- gentle driving until proper temperatures are reached is better for the vehicle in general.

Having an oil cooler may put you in a different situation if you need to worry about excessive pressure blowing fittings

roy'sz · 09-09-2011, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattP725

I'll let it sit for 5 min but really not much more unless I am checking for leaks or simply doing something else.

I wish I could do that but its in the 60's at night and it takes a lil while to go. Too bad they didn't have something similar to a cold weather package where you just plug it in and the oil warms up on its own. Something like 100 or 120 deg heaters.

09-08-2011, 02:41 PM	#17 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 45 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	Modshacks writeup is a litte different from mine but you check out my writeup for different options. DIY: Oil Cooler Block Off Plate __________________

09-08-2011, 06:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 18	Are you guys really warming up your car for 5-15 minutes before driving? That's some tough love man -- most modern cars need little to no warm-up time in normal weather and perhaps a minute or so in cold weather. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

09-08-2011, 06:35 PM	#24 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 45 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	I defiantly warm mine for at least 15 to 20 minutes being I have a oil cooler and oil pressure gauge. The gauge has let me see some high pressure up to 130psi when the oil is cold or even at 150 degrees when going down the road at 2.5K RPM's. But as soon as temps hit near 180 degrees it doesn't go past 90-95psi. So that being said and having a oil cooler I feel it's best to let it warm for who knows how much an aftermarket oil cooler fittings can take over time at those pressures. If it was just the motor I wouldn't think much of it. __________________

09-08-2011, 06:59 PM	#26 (permalink)
Lug A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,926 Drives: 2006 350Z Rep Power: 19	College Station huh? You sure your car is not on fire? Seriously, run your car for a few thousand mile before doing anything. I've seen several people say that after breakin, cars run a bit cooler and use less oil. __________________ keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs Last edited by Lug; 09-08-2011 at 07:02 PM.

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09-08-2011, 02:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	Oil can operate safely below 200... I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing the motor below 170 though. It will take longer to heat up with the cooler even with the thermostatic plate. The plate is never fully valved off. Some people on the forum have cars that run at 180 without a cooler so you don't need to be over 200. Obviously you need to find a happy medium because even though a 34 row can cool faster, you are going to have issues warming up the engine under normal driving conditions if it isn't warm out. See modshacks DIY, he had to make a block off plate and I think he only used a 24-25 row. I might need to do the same when winter time comes (although I won't be driving the Z much in the winter).

09-08-2011, 03:16 PM	#20 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	I'd say 5-10 to get up to the 160+ region @ idle, I just take it easy until the engine is warm when I am driving... You just want to make sure your operating temp is sufficient not your idle warmup time. Every car needs time for the oil to warmup, cooler or not... general public doesn't wait for their car to get to operating temp before driving. The sandwhich plate will keep your flow lower until you reach 180. If your not reaching 180 under normal driving conditions that could signal that you have too big a cooler and need to make a block off plate since your not even getting the effectiveness of full flow. I would bet that the extra qt to qt and a half is enough to already dissapate some of the heat before you even get to the cooler.

09-08-2011, 03:22 PM	#21 (permalink)
roy'sz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: palmdale, ca Posts: 1,299 Drives: 2010 nissan 370z Rep Power: 16	yeah I agree with that. Has anybody tried swapping out the spring on the mocal plate to allow for more a slight amount of more heat? My problem is i work nights so I see both sides of the coin where as most people drive during the day to and from work. I think its funny coolant only takes 2 minutes but oil seems forever. How much oil is on the dipstick at the high mark? The dealership filled it to that level and i thought it would be a great place to have it so I can track oil levels for issues like burn off. And you are right about that added quart.

09-08-2011, 06:31 PM	#23 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	Don't mess with the spring, if it is below 180 it isn't opened anyhow so you won't notice a benefit... there is no way to fully close the system (and I'm not sure you'd want to have old oil just sitting in the cooler not rotating). If you are really overcooling switch out to a 25 row or do the blockoff plate. I am sure you will get track enthusiasts on the site that would be willing to trade up to the 34 in exchange.

09-08-2011, 08:20 PM	#28 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	I'll let it sit for 5 min but really not much more unless I am checking for leaks or simply doing something else.