Oil type and temp Questions (houston area)

roy'sz · 09-08-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

To make money and make a living?

You might want to take some chem classes and see how oil works before you preach about how great a giant oil cooler is for a street driven car.

hahaha, i used to test oil in the navy smart guy. maybe you should do some research online as far as what could cause sludge build up on oil before you go runnin your mough. also being that i got a 34 row cooler is an obivious sign of more mods to come and a cushion for the amount of heat my car will be putting out.

wstar · 09-09-2011, 12:32 PM

I'd just get the little 19-row if you're never going on a track. It will hold up to TX weather fine with that. Technically you're probably fine even without a cooler. On the worst summer days you might hit 240 on the street driving kinda recklessly, but that's really not a huge issue.

If you can, I'd recommend learning to do your own oil changes (and to check and change the other fluids on the car yourself as well). It only requires a minimum of tools, knowledge and effort, and frankly nobody (not the dealer and certainly not jiffylube) really cares about your car more than you do. Eventually they'll do something stupid or criminal out of haste (not use the oil you asked them to, not change the filter, over-tighten the drain plug, maybe even leave the drain plug loose so you dump oil later).

If you're really unwilling to do your own oil changes and really feel you need a cooler, IMHO your best option for worry-free maintenance is to have a Nissan dealership install the Nissan Motorsports oil cooler package for you, and have that dealership do all of your oil changes as well. Then there's only 1 party involved: if anything goes wrong, the dealership has to deal with it and cover it and there's nobody else to point a finger at.

wstar · 09-09-2011, 12:35 PM

Re: the Mocal questions, I called them a couple of years ago when I bought my thermo plate, I've posted this like 3 times on different threads here somewhere:

The Mocal starts with both passages (oil cooler + bypass) open. The thermostat closes the bypass passage gradually over roughly the 175-185F range. So at 185+, basically all of your oil flow is forced through the cooler. Under 175, most of it takes the bypass route (least resistance), but a small amount will still flow through the cooler as well since the passageway is open (and this helps warm up the cooler and lines themselves, so it's not a sudden temp shock).

MattP725 · 09-08-2011, 01:13 PM

Oil can operate safely below 200... I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing the motor below 170 though. It will take longer to heat up with the cooler even with the thermostatic plate. The plate is never fully valved off.

Some people on the forum have cars that run at 180 without a cooler so you don't need to be over 200. Obviously you need to find a happy medium because even though a 34 row can cool faster, you are going to have issues warming up the engine under normal driving conditions if it isn't warm out. See modshacks DIY, he had to make a block off plate and I think he only used a 24-25 row. I might need to do the same when winter time comes (although I won't be driving the Z much in the winter).

roy'sz · 09-08-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattP725

Oil can operate safely below 200... I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing the motor below 170 though. It will take longer to heat up with the cooler even with the thermostatic plate. The plate is never fully valved off.

Some people on the forum have cars that run at 180 without a cooler so you don't need to be over 200. Obviously you need to find a happy medium because even though a 34 row can cool faster, you are going to have issues warming up the engine under normal driving conditions if it isn't warm out. See modshacks DIY, he had to make a block off plate and I think he only used a 24-25 row. I might need to do the same when winter time comes (although I won't be driving the Z much in the winter).

I thought so, I know that the lesl extreme heat you have on your oil can equal a longer life span of the oil. Not by much but it is noticeable. Before my cooler within 1500 miles my oil was gettin pretty dark. I have that amount on now and it is starting to change color a bit. How long witht he mocal plate are you talking warmup time? I let mine run about 15 min and it gets up to about 160. With a little street driving it gets to 175 and when I hit the freeway coming home at night it plumits. I got the mocal just waiting on the fittings to arrive.

SPOHN · 09-08-2011, 01:41 PM

Modshacks writeup is a litte different from mine but you check out my writeup for different options.

DIY: Oil Cooler Block Off Plate

MattP725 · 09-08-2011, 02:16 PM

I'd say 5-10 to get up to the 160+ region @ idle, I just take it easy until the engine is warm when I am driving...

You just want to make sure your operating temp is sufficient not your idle warmup time. Every car needs time for the oil to warmup, cooler or not... general public doesn't wait for their car to get to operating temp before driving.

The sandwhich plate will keep your flow lower until you reach 180. If your not reaching 180 under normal driving conditions that could signal that you have too big a cooler and need to make a block off plate since your not even getting the effectiveness of full flow.

I would bet that the extra qt to qt and a half is enough to already dissapate some of the heat before you even get to the cooler.

roy'sz · 09-08-2011, 02:22 PM

yeah I agree with that. Has anybody tried swapping out the spring on the mocal plate to allow for more a slight amount of more heat? My problem is i work nights so I see both sides of the coin where as most people drive during the day to and from work. I think its funny coolant only takes 2 minutes but oil seems forever. How much oil is on the dipstick at the high mark? The dealership filled it to that level and i thought it would be a great place to have it so I can track oil levels for issues like burn off. And you are right about that added quart.

Zaggeron · 09-08-2011, 05:10 PM

Are you guys really warming up your car for 5-15 minutes before driving? That's some tough love man -- most modern cars need little to no warm-up time in normal weather and perhaps a minute or so in cold weather.

MattP725 · 09-08-2011, 05:31 PM

Don't mess with the spring, if it is below 180 it isn't opened anyhow so you won't notice a benefit... there is no way to fully close the system (and I'm not sure you'd want to have old oil just sitting in the cooler not rotating). If you are really overcooling switch out to a 25 row or do the blockoff plate. I am sure you will get track enthusiasts on the site that would be willing to trade up to the 34 in exchange.

roy'sz · 09-09-2011, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattP725

Don't mess with the spring, if it is below 180 it isn't opened anyhow so you won't notice a benefit... there is no way to fully close the system (and I'm not sure you'd want to have old oil just sitting in the cooler not rotating). If you are really overcooling switch out to a 25 row or do the blockoff plate. I am sure you will get track enthusiasts on the site that would be willing to trade up to the 34 in exchange.

The whole kit was for free so I think i'll keep it lol. When exactly does the solenoid start to open on the mocal? The way I understand it, is that the valve starts to respond to the warm oil and it starts to close. Thats what creates or is supposed to create your 180 degree baseline for the adapter. If I have this wrong by all means break it down for me because Z1 kinda confused me a little bit and i've been tryin to get my head wrapped around it. I know its simple and im goin to end up goin"OOOOOh" lol.

SPOHN · 09-08-2011, 05:35 PM

I defiantly warm mine for at least 15 to 20 minutes being I have a oil cooler and oil pressure gauge. The gauge has let me see some high pressure up to 130psi when the oil is cold or even at 150 degrees when going down the road at 2.5K RPM's. But as soon as temps hit near 180 degrees it doesn't go past 90-95psi.

So that being said and having a oil cooler I feel it's best to let it warm for who knows how much an aftermarket oil cooler fittings can take over time at those pressures. If it was just the motor I wouldn't think much of it.

Zaggeron · 09-08-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

I defiantly warm mine for at least 15 to 20 minutes being I have a oil cooler and oil pressure gauge. The gauge has let me see some high pressure up to 130psi when the oil is cold or even at 150 degrees when going down the road at 2.5K RPM's. But as soon as temps hit near 180 degrees it doesn't go past 90-95psi.

So that being said and having a oil cooler I feel it's best to let it warm for who knows how much an aftermarket oil cooler fittings can take over time at those pressures. If it was just the motor I wouldn't think much of it.

If you are really letting it idle for 15 to 20 minutes before driving, you may be trading wear from overheated oil for wear related to unburnt fuel in the intakes and the host of other issues that accompany long periods of engine idle -- idling is not good for the engine.

There's a bunch of discussion of this on the interwebs, but this is a pretty good synopsis

Warm up the car by idling › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science (ABC Science)

Quote:

Idling an engine is bad in so many ways. The fuel is not completely burnt, so it condenses in drops on the cylinder walls. This leads to both extra wear of the cylinder walls (because the fuel washes the lubricating oil off the walls), and unburnt fuel flowing down the walls and contaminating the oil in the sump. Idling also drops the temperature of the spark plugs, leading to dirty plugs, which can worsen your fuel consumption by some five per cent.

SPOHN · 09-08-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

If you are really letting it idle for 15 to 20 minutes before driving, you may be trading wear from overheated oil for wear related to unburnt fuel in the intakes and the host of other issues that accompany long periods of engine idle -- idling is not good for the engine.

There's a bunch of discussion of this on the interwebs, but this is a pretty good synopsis

Warm up the car by idling › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science (ABC Science)

In all honesty I feel the article is driven towards being an environmentalist. Which nothing is wrong with that. But I fail to see how it could be that detrimental to engine wear. If any it's mild, especially with our modern day motors and the technology behind them. It's no big deal for me.

I'll take over idealing over a blown oil cooler line fitting.

Zaggeron · 09-08-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPOHN

In all honesty I feel the article is driven towards being an environmentalist. Which nothing is wrong with that. But I fail to see how it could be that detrimental to engine wear. If any it's mild, especially with our modern day motors and the technology behind them. It's no big deal for me.

I'll take over idealing over a blown oil cooler line fitting.

I did notice the enviro-bent, but I don't think that was the thrust. Most of the major points relating to wear I posted in that quote.

The general consensus nowadays is that the old conventional wisdom of letting the car reach operating temperatures via letting it sit and idle doesn't apply to most modern cars -- gentle driving until proper temperatures are reached is better for the vehicle in general.

Having an oil cooler may put you in a different situation if you need to worry about excessive pressure blowing fittings

09-09-2011, 12:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	I'd just get the little 19-row if you're never going on a track. It will hold up to TX weather fine with that. Technically you're probably fine even without a cooler. On the worst summer days you might hit 240 on the street driving kinda recklessly, but that's really not a huge issue. If you can, I'd recommend learning to do your own oil changes (and to check and change the other fluids on the car yourself as well). It only requires a minimum of tools, knowledge and effort, and frankly nobody (not the dealer and certainly not jiffylube) really cares about your car more than you do. Eventually they'll do something stupid or criminal out of haste (not use the oil you asked them to, not change the filter, over-tighten the drain plug, maybe even leave the drain plug loose so you dump oil later). If you're really unwilling to do your own oil changes and really feel you need a cooler, IMHO your best option for worry-free maintenance is to have a Nissan dealership install the Nissan Motorsports oil cooler package for you, and have that dealership do all of your oil changes as well. Then there's only 1 party involved: if anything goes wrong, the dealership has to deal with it and cover it and there's nobody else to point a finger at. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-09-2011, 12:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	Re: the Mocal questions, I called them a couple of years ago when I bought my thermo plate, I've posted this like 3 times on different threads here somewhere: The Mocal starts with both passages (oil cooler + bypass) open. The thermostat closes the bypass passage gradually over roughly the 175-185F range. So at 185+, basically all of your oil flow is forced through the cooler. Under 175, most of it takes the bypass route (least resistance), but a small amount will still flow through the cooler as well since the passageway is open (and this helps warm up the cooler and lines themselves, so it's not a sudden temp shock). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-08-2011, 01:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 46 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 222	Modshacks writeup is a litte different from mine but you check out my writeup for different options. DIY: Oil Cooler Block Off Plate __________________

09-08-2011, 05:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 19	Are you guys really warming up your car for 5-15 minutes before driving? That's some tough love man -- most modern cars need little to no warm-up time in normal weather and perhaps a minute or so in cold weather. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

09-08-2011, 05:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 46 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 222	I defiantly warm mine for at least 15 to 20 minutes being I have a oil cooler and oil pressure gauge. The gauge has let me see some high pressure up to 130psi when the oil is cold or even at 150 degrees when going down the road at 2.5K RPM's. But as soon as temps hit near 180 degrees it doesn't go past 90-95psi. So that being said and having a oil cooler I feel it's best to let it warm for who knows how much an aftermarket oil cooler fittings can take over time at those pressures. If it was just the motor I wouldn't think much of it. __________________

09-08-2011, 01:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	Oil can operate safely below 200... I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing the motor below 170 though. It will take longer to heat up with the cooler even with the thermostatic plate. The plate is never fully valved off. Some people on the forum have cars that run at 180 without a cooler so you don't need to be over 200. Obviously you need to find a happy medium because even though a 34 row can cool faster, you are going to have issues warming up the engine under normal driving conditions if it isn't warm out. See modshacks DIY, he had to make a block off plate and I think he only used a 24-25 row. I might need to do the same when winter time comes (although I won't be driving the Z much in the winter).

09-08-2011, 02:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	I'd say 5-10 to get up to the 160+ region @ idle, I just take it easy until the engine is warm when I am driving... You just want to make sure your operating temp is sufficient not your idle warmup time. Every car needs time for the oil to warmup, cooler or not... general public doesn't wait for their car to get to operating temp before driving. The sandwhich plate will keep your flow lower until you reach 180. If your not reaching 180 under normal driving conditions that could signal that you have too big a cooler and need to make a block off plate since your not even getting the effectiveness of full flow. I would bet that the extra qt to qt and a half is enough to already dissapate some of the heat before you even get to the cooler.

09-08-2011, 02:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
roy'sz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: palmdale, ca Posts: 1,299 Drives: 2010 nissan 370z Rep Power: 16	yeah I agree with that. Has anybody tried swapping out the spring on the mocal plate to allow for more a slight amount of more heat? My problem is i work nights so I see both sides of the coin where as most people drive during the day to and from work. I think its funny coolant only takes 2 minutes but oil seems forever. How much oil is on the dipstick at the high mark? The dealership filled it to that level and i thought it would be a great place to have it so I can track oil levels for issues like burn off. And you are right about that added quart.

09-08-2011, 05:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 17	Don't mess with the spring, if it is below 180 it isn't opened anyhow so you won't notice a benefit... there is no way to fully close the system (and I'm not sure you'd want to have old oil just sitting in the cooler not rotating). If you are really overcooling switch out to a 25 row or do the blockoff plate. I am sure you will get track enthusiasts on the site that would be willing to trade up to the 34 in exchange.

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