Issues with my Z HELP!
 

Ok so here is my story in a nut shell.

I have a 2009 370Z Sport/Touring MT

I was leaving work last monday and when shifting into second my Z died on me. Engine cut off, wouldnt start back up, just wouldnt turn over. Got it towed to the Nissan dealership where they informed me that I needed a new cam sensor and crank sensor and it would be covered under the warranty. No big deal, i wait a day, they install it. After the sensors are installed they call me to tell me that the timing isnt right in the engine and they cant figure out why. They told me that they would have to take the engine apart to find the issue in the timing, and it would be 10-12 hours worth of labor. They also informed me that due to my "Extensive modding" that it may not be covered under warranty and ill be responsible for the labor hours if they find that the problem was caused by aftermarket parts.

Now the funny part, my "extensive" mods consists of Stillen Gen 3 Bolt on intakes, A stillen Catback Exhaust, and an oilcooler.

What do you guys think? Could any of these mods cause a timing issue in the engine? It doesnt really make much sense to me, but im no expert.

Oh, and there was no warning before the engine cut off while driving. No knocking in the engine, no check or service engine lights, nothing.

Thanks guys

Brian

Brian, sorry to hear of the problem with your Z. Which Nissan Dealership did you take it to?

Sounds like the timing gear may have slipped a tooth somehow? Don't see how any of your mods could be even hypothetically blamed for the failure, it's not like you bolted a supercharger on there.

Hey Jon!

I took it to Sheehy nissan in glen burnie. Ive had good service with them before, and they have very good reviews on several review sites.

Yeah man, im totally bummed, they at least gave me an altima to drive around till they figure out what the problem is.

If a car under warranty has been modified, it's in a dealer's best interest to disclose the fact that liability could be thrust upon the car owner if the needed repair was caused by the modification. The dealer needs to communicate this so that if Nissan U.S.A. refuses to pay them to do the warranty work, they have made the car owner aware of the fact that it could be an owner-pay repair ticket. Standard dealer speak.

They are full of crap, extensive modding hahah right...the stealership will find any way they can to get out of warranty claims. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure none of your mods could cause those problems. Good Luck man. Research everything and go in there and prove them wrong.

You have nothing to worry about with the warranty, it is physically impossible for your intake or cat-back to even remotely mess with timing. Good luck with everything and keep us updated!

:iagree:

:iagree:

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act says they have to prove a particular part caused the malfunction. This is BS if they try to put this all on you and I would ask Stillen to help you out if they do.

That sucks dude! When I talked to the guys at Sheehy Nissan they told me I would be ok with intakes and exhaust as long as they don't directly cause a problem. You could always try taking off the mods and then having it towed to a different dealership if things start looking bad.

:iagree:

What's your mileage? I would hate to have those things fail after getting extensive mods like... TT kit.

Agree with moto. Standard dealer speak. He put it out there now to make you aware of the possibility. I gotta do the same in my job so I understand why he did it.

Like the others, I don't believe your mods caused the issue or that they won't honor the warranty work.

I go to Sheehy myself for much of my maintenance and have the same mods (with the exception of the intake). I haven't had warranty work done on it, but they've never balked at my mods.

From Cobb's Accessport tuning guide:

"The VQ platform utilizes a mass air flow (MAF) sensor located downstream to the air filter and before the throttle body to measure the amount (mass) of air entering the engine. This air flow measurement IS CRITICAL for ignition timing, fuel and camshaft phasing calculations."

Maybe check the stillen intakes for any loose connections?

What does Cobb tuning port have to do with the Stillen intake. The MAF sensor did not malfunction and if it did would not damage the cam & crank sensor. I'll give you the possibilty of damage to the timing if the MAF was tampered with, but that is not the case with a bolt on CAI without a tune. The MAF is "CRITICAL" because the ECU needs that reading for the engine to function correctly. Your not changing a whole lot parameters when you switch to a CAI. It's just slightly denser/"colder" air which the ecu can compensate for. CAI is not the same as forced induction.

nothing, didn't say it did.

how do you know his MAF is in proper order? it's not possible to damage the MAF when moving from the OEM to stillen tubes?

OP questioned the possibility of his mods affecting timing. i know a properly installed/functioning stillen g3 intake is not going to cause timing problems. i only posited the possibility of something being loose and doing a simple check.

before he commits to the dealership taking his entire engine apart and be on the hook for about $1k in labor costs, maybe he should take 30min to simply check his intake?

It's gotta be the muffler bearing.

I'm 100% sure any malfuction with the MAF sensor would throw a code, especially a loose connection. If the ECU does not detect the MAF sensor, instant CEL is pretty much a given. The engine will start, but cuts off as soon as you apply throttle. I know this because I forget to attach the harness to the MAF in my old Maxima once. I do agree that it doesn't hurt to check. A simple leak in the intake could throw off the ECU, but I doubt its enough to cause the damage the tech's are claiming. It's a scare tactic by the dealership to cover their a**, plain and simple. Assuming there is no CEL, the burden of proof is on the dealer to prove the mods did in fact cause the malfunction.

UPDATE:

Alright, here is the deal now. At first they called me back and the advisor told me that the V1-VTC Gear seized due to a lack of oil lubricant, and she told me that it was the CAI's were the issue and that it was going to cost 2,064.00 dollars. They are charging me 12 hours worth of labor to diagnose and fix the problem. I called another Nissan dealer, a service manager I know, and he said according to warranty the fix for that problem should be 5.7 hours worth of work.

I told her that the CAI explanation makes no sense and I wanted to talk to the tech who was working on my car.

The technician gets on the phone and tells me the oil cooler is the problem, and that I should have told the technicians that changed my oil that I needed to have the oil inside the oil cooler changed as well. I called Stillen to ask about changing the oil within the oil cooler when getting an oil change, and they said there is no reason that you would have to do that, and that answer does not make sense.

I asked the technician at the dealership point blank - "So its the oil cooler causing the lack of oil to the VTC gear?" He responded with " I cant tell you wether it is or not, you would have to get the work done and come back in 1,000 miles to see."

Isnt it true that if they cant prove without a reasonable doubt that the oil cooler is causing the problem that they cant deny my warranty repairs?

I then called 1800-NISSAN1 warranty department. The guy on the phone said i need to get the diagnosis from the machines at the nissan dealership and that should tell him what caused the problem without a doubt. I have to stop by the dealer tomorrow to get the paperwork from the diagnosis to see what the deal is.


Anyone else ever have a smilar problem or have some input?

Thanks so much guys
Brian

Oh and my car has 23,000 miles. I have had the oilcooler, intakes, and exhaust on for 12,000 miles. This isnt a recent issue due to mods.

The service person is clueless. The tech is making a shot in the dark.

They haven't proven it's your oil cooler that caused the problem.

If I were you, I would take the car to another dealer to get repaired, as this dealership seems intent on screwing you.

Best of luck.

This is downright dealer BS. Print out a copy of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act and show it to the service manager. What they are saying only shows this dealership's lack of knowledge. They obviously don't want work on such a time consuming job, especially if it's a warranty work.

I agree. I'm going to get the diagnosis from the dealer and call Nissan directly so they can tell me what the real deal is.

When i asked for the diag paperwork they acted stupid and asked what diag paper work i was looking for.

Chances are, their diagnostic report won't say crap or doesn't exist. Try to get them to say the oil cooler was the definative cause in writing if you can and keep all your paperwork in order. Ask Stillen kindly to send the service manager an e-mail based on your conversation. I'm sure it would be in their best interest now that the Z community is watching.

dealer logic

something broke. that something gets lubricated by oil.
customer has oil cooler

therefor problem = oil cooler.

They dont take into consideration that sometimes.. gears just seize up.. sometimes motors just blow.. etc.

I just talked to my buddy, the service manager at another dealer. He said if the oilcooler is infact the problem. That NISMO also makes an oilcooler and ask him what the oil cooler is doing that is causing the issue, and what the difference is from a NISMO part. He said that its ********, because he would be able to tell me if the oilcooler had a leak right away, and if it doesnt, where did the 3 qts of oil go?

He told me to also ask why an oil indicator light never showed up on the dash.

Thanks so much for your quick responses, I really appreciate it.

p.s ask them since the oil was the problem whether or not everything else the oil lubricates is broken.

Sorry to hear about your troubles Brian. I hope it all works out for the best in the end. Repped for keeping us informed.

So, the VTC Intake Cam Gear seized due to "lack" of oil lubricant. Lack of oil lubricant would imply to me that there was a severe shortage of oil quantity. Was the car 3 quarts low of oil at the time of seizure? Have you or they added 3 quarts since the seizure to see it come up to full on the dipstick, or how do they know that lack of oil quantity is the cause of the seizure?

It was 3 qts low when it seized.

The funny thing is, i had my car serviced AT THE SAME DEALER 3k miles ago with fully synthetic oil and still have the receipts.

Also, the dealer is charging me 112.00 per hour of labor.

If the oil was completely drained from the car, and the lube "tech" didn't check the level before you left, it is possible that the oil was low. Not knowing that the oil cooler was there means the tech probably put the "standard" amount of oil in. With an oil cooler, you of course need more. Unless you have a big oil cooler though, 3 qts is a lot.

If they can't show proof of an oil leak, then it's their fault for not putting the correct amount of oil in when they changed it last.

With all this tomfoolery, I'd have the car taken to another dealership. They seem intent on blaming you for the issue so who knows what kind of stunts they'll pull to put this on you.

Good luck :shakes head:

So basically what they're saying is that it's your fault for either:
1) Not telling us (the dealer) that since your car has an oil cooler, an oil change would require more oil than a stock 370Z.
or
2) Not keeping enough oil in the car over the past 3000 miles.

If your receipt from the oil change that the dealer performed 3000 miles ago shows they provided more quarts of oil than a stock 370Z would require due to the existence of your oil cooler, you may have a case to argue that the car is operating in a state of excessive oil consumption. They would need to do an oil consumption test (which I assume is what the tech is suggesting as far as the need to bring it back in 1,000 miles to test oil consumption).

You have nothing to lose to ask them to do the oil consumption test (in accordance with TSB #EM10-005) after the repair. If the test shows excessive oil consumption, they should be able to file the warranty claim at that time so you can be reimbursed for the repair bill.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how you are going to defend their assertion that the lack of oil is your fault.

Sorry for the bad experience - hope it turns out for the best.

I would take it to another Nissan service department (not Sheehy) and have them look at it for a second opinion on what the cause is.

I wouldn't go to Herb Gordon Nissan either.... so what good dealers are in MD that don't try and bend you over and rape you? I haven't found one yet....:shakes head:

Your were burning oil
 

The simple answer to your problem is that your motor is (was) burning oil. This is a very common problem with these VQ engines. In fact, on my last G35 I was on my third motor. All of them burned more than a quart every 1000 miles.

Even my current 370Z burns about a quart every 1,000 miles.

The dealer knows this but is trying to play ignorant.

Check out my post I wrote on August 6, 2006 on G35 Driver Everyone: Check Your Oil! - G35Driver.

It is now has 1,621 replies and 161,179 views!

I agree that most likely the OP is burning oil. However, I wouldn't say it's "very common". I had to replace my VQ in my 350z because of this, but it's still the exception, not the rule.

I don't know if it's break-in method or failing seals or what, but yeah- it does happen.

Well just doing some light scanning and I have seen several engine failures due to lack of oil and many others are burning more oil than any engine ever should. The exception has become more and more common the more I look into it.

Call me cynical, but I have come to the conclusion that it is very common for these engines to burn oil. I base that on my personal experience with three separate VQ engines. All three of my G35 engines were replaced after dealer sanctioned oil consumption tests. And trust me, Infiniti fought me every step of the way.

However, at this point I consider it just part of owning one of these engines. Many older Porches’ were known to burn a quart every thousand. It was the responsibility of the owner to monitor the oil level.

I suppose I could force Nissan to replace my 370Z motor but I just don’t have the fight in me anymore. I just make sure to monitor my oil levels religiously.

Op, your problem is that you don’t have the ability to conduct the oil consumption tests. You will have quite a fight on your hands to get a free replacement.

Agreed...there are several documented cases where engines that have been replaced due to oil consumption. If anything else, the oil cooler saved you engine just a few second LONGER since it increased the total oil volume.

I am attempting to get the NSB Code from my guy at Nissan now so you guys can reference it from now on. I tried looking for it myself and failed.

I have spoken with Nissan in the past regarding warranty claims and aftermarket parts. The easiest way I can summarize it is the following:

As long as you do not go into the engine's internals (pistons, valvetrain, cylinder head) or the internals of the drivetrain you will be covered. As mentioned above, they may also deny the claim if the aftermarket part is linked to the failure.

Just food for thought...I wonder what they would claim had it you installed a Nissan Motorsports Oil Cooler kit as opposed to the Stillen??