Everyone with oil temp issues

antennahead · 06-18-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

If you are very concern, change to Amsoil synthetic, you should see a slightly lower temp. They also tolerate heat much better than dino oil and are capable of 250-280F easily

Thanks. I was actually much more concerned with the engines internals at higher temps than the ability of the oil to hold up to those temps. I'm going to stick with the Nissan Esther for the time being. Changing at 3750, I doubt it will be experiencing serious breakdown at that mileage.

John

kannibul · 06-19-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannyz

Im sorry Kanibul for the missunderstanding but that is not my point, and that is not what the law says, even that I do understand your point.

Yes the law it has to do with add-ons and any aftermarket part, what the law protect you from is from dealers that take the practice of looking at a mod, and they want to void the warranty of the car.

For example, you can install an oil cooler, and if u have problems with transmission, they cannot look at the car and tell you that your car is out of warranty because you install something that dont belong to the car. Thats when the law protect you, they have to take the car as it is, perform the regular diagnostic AND if after performing the their job they get to a conclusion the problem with the transmission was the oil cooler then they have to put it in writing and charge you whatever.

IF you change ur Wheels, and you have problems with suspensions, they have to take your car and perform their job, then decided if they are going to void warranty or not, and only for the part related not the whole car.

If you install and aftermarket radio, and ur lights don't work, they have to chek the car.

Using your example, if you install Nitrous on your car, yes they can void the warranty if something happen to the engine, but ONLY if something happen. But the law says that they cannot deny you warranty just by looking at the car and see the bottle.

etc. I think u got my point now.

I guess my point/angle is that they can claim that the modifications to part A, exceeded design specifications for part B, causing part B to fail.

They could easily attribue any type engine modification to any driveline failure, and you lose your case.

In the case of wheels - people that are adding spacers - when the wheel bearings or ball joints fail, they could easily say that it changed the load on the wheel bearings/ball joints to exceed design specifications, and you're left holding the bag. Same thing with stretched tires and blowing the sidewalls...

Then there's the angle they can take with regards to abuse. If you damage the CV joints in the rear axles - wether you modified something or not, they could easily say that it was due to abuse.

The Act does have some angles where it can protect a consumer in the event of a warranty claim where something in the car has been modified - but there are still some very big loopholes...in other words, I wouldn't depend on the Magnuson-Moss Act alone...

mannyz · 06-19-2009, 10:06 AM

You are right on those points. And yes because some dealers know about this law, they always try to find the way to blame everyhing on the mods or alteration. THe thing is (and this happened to me a lot with my previous car) that if they look at your car, open the hood, or see any modification, they cannot void the warranty of the car.

You know every law has its flaws they never cover everthing they have to. I guess thats when your personally has to come in place. In my case, the knowledge of the car, the knowledege of the parts I installed on my car, the law and most of it the respect against the Service Manager and the techs, helped me a lot.

Cause even if the law protect you, the dealer can bring the card of "we have the right to deny service and dont deal with this customer"

kannibul · 06-19-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannyz

You are right on those points. And yes because some dealers know about this law, they always try to find the way to blame everyhing on the mods or alteration. THe thing is (and this happened to me a lot with my previous car) that if they look at your car, open the hood, or see any modification, they cannot void the warranty of the car.

You know every law has its flaws they never cover everthing they have to. I guess thats when your personally has to come in place. In my case, the knowledge of the car, the knowledege of the parts I installed on my car, the law and most of it the respect against the Service Manager and the techs, helped me a lot.

Cause even if the law protect you, the dealer can bring the card of "we have the right to deny service and dont deal with this customer"

Luckily, the warranty doesn't lock you into one dealer

mannyz · 06-19-2009, 11:19 AM

thats true, w my previous car, I went trough 3 dealers until I found one that had smart people in it.

Modshack · 06-20-2009, 06:59 PM

My Sump cooler idea in the DIY. No warranty issues....

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...your-sump.html

spearfish25 · 06-24-2009, 08:49 PM

It's pretty amazing, but my temperature issues are essentially completely resolved on the street. Today was 94F and spirited driving home from work for 20 min didn't get the temps over 220F. 2500mi on the car running Nissan Ester Oil.

antennahead · 06-24-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

It's pretty amazing, but my temperature issues are essentially completely resolved on the street. Today was 94F and spirited driving home from work for 20 min didn't get the temps over 220F. 2500mi on the car running Nissan Ester Oil.

It was in the high 90's here a few days ago, and I broke 240. It does seem to be running "less hot" the more miles I put on it. I wonder if there is any truth to the "more break-in" you have, the lower the temps, as some have suggested? Had I pushed it a little harder that day, I could have it 250.

John

kannibul · 06-25-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

It's pretty amazing, but my temperature issues are essentially completely resolved on the street. Today was 94F and spirited driving home from work for 20 min didn't get the temps over 220F. 2500mi on the car running Nissan Ester Oil.

It was 101F here yesterday, though my car said it was 112F outside

Pretty bad when your car sits for 4 hours, and the oil temp is still above the minimum, and the coolant temp is still around where it normally sits!

Anyhow, with some spunky driving I cracked 220...in fact, I've yet to get it to 240.

The guys doing so must be REALLY pushing the car, or driving illegally on the streets - IMO...

wstar · 06-25-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

The guys doing so must be REALLY pushing the car, or driving illegally on the streets - IMO...

I really wish people would stop pushing the "illegal" angle. For one, most people drive "illegally" on a regular basis, at least around here. Just try driving the speed limit on Beltway 8 and see what I mean. It's just a matter of the degree of illegality you're pushing.

But perhaps more importantly: pushing the car hard enough to heat up the oil does not automatically equate to driving "illegally". The two issues are orthogonal, and it's well within the realm of possibility to overheat the engine without breaking a single traffic law.

cossie1600 · 06-25-2009, 12:06 PM

I am netural on the oil cooler warranty issue. I do want to say that modern oil can run at high temperature with no problem. matter of fact, modern cars run at high temperature because they are more efficient and therefore less emission. 210 oil temp is common in new cars and it is completely okay if your car is design for it. rings are usually built looser on these motors, allowing them to expand under high temp. if you go too low on it, you actually put more stress on motor. this is why there is an opearting temperature, not just low temperature is better.

as for oil temperature rising quickly, it has as much to do with rpm than anything else. guys who are constantly holding the car in the 4500 rpm will be way higher than guys who redline and then cruise back at 2500rpm. rpm builds heat, oil is used to lower the heat.

all the complaining is the reason why cars don't have accurate water and oil temp gauge now, I think people need to relax a little. unless you track the car, I would look at this as a concern rather than panic.

bored at work.....

kannibul · 06-25-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I really wish people would stop pushing the "illegal" angle. For one, most people drive "illegally" on a regular basis, at least around here. Just try driving the speed limit on Beltway 8 and see what I mean. It's just a matter of the degree of illegality you're pushing.

But perhaps more importantly: pushing the car hard enough to heat up the oil does not automatically equate to driving "illegally". The two issues are orthogonal, and it's well within the realm of possibility to overheat the engine without breaking a single traffic law.

OK, has your oil temp gone over 230F by going 75 in a 65?

I'm saying that someone who is going over that has to be doing something illegal - more illegal than those who typically drive the same stretch of road(s)...

And, how exactly does one "push" the car to the point of overheating the oil and going into limp mode?

I don't drive mine like a saint (at all), and I've yet to...

wstar · 06-25-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

OK, has your oil temp gone over 230F by going 75 in a 65?

I'm saying that someone who is going over that has to be doing something illegal - more illegal than those who typically drive the same stretch of road(s)...

And, how exactly does one "push" the car to the point of overheating the oil and going into limp mode?

I don't drive mine like a saint (at all), and I've yet to...

Oil temperature has nothing to do with vehicle speed, it has everything to do with ambient temperature, engine revs, engine load, and airflow to the radiator/engine. To give a silly example, if you were to drive down the road in first gear at 6,500 rpm for several minutes straight (which is way under most street speed limits, much less highway), the oil would overheat in most ambient conditions. At that low vehicle speed you're not getting much cooling to the engine, and the high revs are going to cook the oil, and no laws have been violated.

Following the same logic it *is* possible, on a hot day driving around on smaller streets with lots of uphill, to keep the revs high while nailing it around a twisty set of corners and streets without exceeding the speed limit, and overheat the oil. If you're a particularly smooth driver you could even do it without attracting much attention or appearing to be doing anything reckless. Most people won't, but it can be done.

"It's illegal to overheat your car" is nonsensical, don't give Nissan ammo to avoid the issue with.

ChrisSlicks · 06-25-2009, 05:59 PM

I'll take auto-cross as an extreme example of low speed driving. Our auto-cross site has a speed limit of 70 mph, we basically drive the whole course in second gear. There is lots of hard acceleration and hard braking with the rpm consistently in the mid to high range. At the last event I was hitting 260 degrees in 100 seconds. If I were to keep driving like that the temperature would keep rising and eventually hit limp mode, but fortunately auto-cross has a long cool down period between runs.

I could drive half as hard on the street and still get there, but it would likely take 3 times as long. Acceleration is what generates the most heat as that is when there will be the biggest bang (fuel combustion) and when the VVEL is the busiest. So on the street, switching between full throttle acceleration and braking you can still hit limp mode in no time, speed is irrelevant.

antennahead · 06-25-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I really wish people would stop pushing the "illegal" angle. For one, most people drive "illegally" on a regular basis, at least around here. Just try driving the speed limit on Beltway 8 and see what I mean. It's just a matter of the degree of illegality you're pushing.

But perhaps more importantly: pushing the car hard enough to heat up the oil does not automatically equate to driving "illegally". The two issues are orthogonal, and it's well within the realm of possibility to overheat the engine without breaking a single traffic law.

I don't drive illegally, unless you consider "going with the flow" on the interstate about 10 over illegal, which everyone does. I am a very safe driver, cognizant of conditions, as well as traffic density and flow. Accelerating through the gears, winding it out and observing speed limits, just enjoying the car (not granny shifting at 2500 RPM), will in high 90 degree heat run this thing up to 250 or 260, as wstar states. You could encounter traffic and have no or minimal airflow, after some nice driving, and it will shoot up as well.

John

06-20-2009, 06:59 PM	#651 (permalink)
Modshack A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Greenville NC Posts: 2,883 Drives: 370Z Sport Rep Power: 976	My Sump cooler idea in the DIY. No warranty issues.... http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...your-sump.html __________________ Steal my car! (SOLD)...Now Porsche Cayman S Oil Cooler DIY: Here!

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06-19-2009, 10:06 AM	#648 (permalink)
mannyz Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 354 Drives: a car Rep Power: 279	You are right on those points. And yes because some dealers know about this law, they always try to find the way to blame everyhing on the mods or alteration. THe thing is (and this happened to me a lot with my previous car) that if they look at your car, open the hood, or see any modification, they cannot void the warranty of the car. You know every law has its flaws they never cover everthing they have to. I guess thats when your personally has to come in place. In my case, the knowledge of the car, the knowledege of the parts I installed on my car, the law and most of it the respect against the Service Manager and the techs, helped me a lot. Cause even if the law protect you, the dealer can bring the card of "we have the right to deny service and dont deal with this customer"

06-19-2009, 11:19 AM	#650 (permalink)
mannyz Enthusiast Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 354 Drives: a car Rep Power: 279	thats true, w my previous car, I went trough 3 dealers until I found one that had smart people in it.

06-24-2009, 08:49 PM	#652 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	It's pretty amazing, but my temperature issues are essentially completely resolved on the street. Today was 94F and spirited driving home from work for 20 min didn't get the temps over 220F. 2500mi on the car running Nissan Ester Oil.

06-25-2009, 12:06 PM	#656 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 30	I am netural on the oil cooler warranty issue. I do want to say that modern oil can run at high temperature with no problem. matter of fact, modern cars run at high temperature because they are more efficient and therefore less emission. 210 oil temp is common in new cars and it is completely okay if your car is design for it. rings are usually built looser on these motors, allowing them to expand under high temp. if you go too low on it, you actually put more stress on motor. this is why there is an opearting temperature, not just low temperature is better. as for oil temperature rising quickly, it has as much to do with rpm than anything else. guys who are constantly holding the car in the 4500 rpm will be way higher than guys who redline and then cruise back at 2500rpm. rpm builds heat, oil is used to lower the heat. all the complaining is the reason why cars don't have accurate water and oil temp gauge now, I think people need to relax a little. unless you track the car, I would look at this as a concern rather than panic. bored at work.....

06-25-2009, 05:59 PM	#659 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	I'll take auto-cross as an extreme example of low speed driving. Our auto-cross site has a speed limit of 70 mph, we basically drive the whole course in second gear. There is lots of hard acceleration and hard braking with the rpm consistently in the mid to high range. At the last event I was hitting 260 degrees in 100 seconds. If I were to keep driving like that the temperature would keep rising and eventually hit limp mode, but fortunately auto-cross has a long cool down period between runs. I could drive half as hard on the street and still get there, but it would likely take 3 times as long. Acceleration is what generates the most heat as that is when there will be the biggest bang (fuel combustion) and when the VVEL is the busiest. So on the street, switching between full throttle acceleration and braking you can still hit limp mode in no time, speed is irrelevant.