Everyone with oil temp issues

bluzman · 06-01-2009, 09:25 PM

Here's more anecdotal data. Had to go to a place near Phoenix last Friday, about 525 miles each way. From northern Santa Barbara county, that means most of the trip is a boring run through the desert on the I-10. The temperature was over 100 by the time I hit Palm Springs and stayed between 100 and 105 the rest of the way (about 250 miles). There are several long uphill pulls in that stretch (Indio to the Chiriaco Summit and from the Colorado River nearly all the way to Quartzite are 2 examples) so I figured I'd find out whether my Z has issues. In the heat, I mostly ran between 75 and 85 MPH (except for a few short bursts at higher speed while dusting off folks who thought they wanted to play but who found out they weren't in the same league with a 370Z). BTW, the A/C was on the whole time.

Bottom line is that the oil temperature never got above 238 and then only on long pulls. On average I'd guesstimate that the oil temperature ran around 225. Like I said, this is just my experience with my car and my driving. I make no claims about broader implications. What I will say is that I personally am no longer concerned about oil temperature problems. YMMV.

Wally · 06-01-2009, 09:41 PM

Spoke with consumer affairs today with no result basically they said the issue is with the engineers, asked about warranty if dealer installed nissan motorsport cooler would the warranty be intact, I really did not get a solid answer and no they will not put that in writing it would be a case by case basis. So sounds like we are in a wait and see mode to see what comes out in the future or go with an aftermarket solution and take our chances. Outside temps around 94 oil temps 240 to 260 range.

antennahead · 06-01-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Spoke with consumer affairs today with no result basically they said the issue is with the engineers, asked about warranty if dealer installed nissan motorsport cooler would the warranty be intact, I really did not get a solid answer and no they will not put that in writing it would be a case by case basis. So sounds like we are in a wait and see mode to see what comes out in the future or go with an aftermarket solution and take our chances. Outside temps around 94 oil temps 240 to 260 range.

Same here, in plus 90 degree heat, I can hit 260..... and that's without redline, I usually never exceed 5500 RPM. I noticed the previous poster in his dessert run never passed 240. I think steady highway driving at 80 to 85, even in a pulling uphill situation, doesn't send the temps rocketing like up and down shifting through the gears, in-town driving........ at least that is my experience. Steady state freeway driving seems to force enough air through, even in 90+ temps, that I don't exceed 230......... get off the freeway and spirited drining in-town ................... hello 260.

John

Musashi · 06-01-2009, 11:23 PM

260 = very bad

antennahead · 06-01-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashi

260 = very bad

I hear ya, that is why the second this happens I back off. Have had it occur 3times now........ waiting on Nissan to do something about this. Hell, I'll buy the damn oil cooler, just make it available, don't gouge us on the price, and continue the warranty if installed by the dealer. IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK OF NISSAN?

John

Cypress · 06-02-2009, 12:12 AM

OK, car noob here. I am trying to understand what is considered good and what is considered bad. I read most of this thread and I see people posting various temps under various conditions. I must say that I can replicate much of what is reported, i.e. 220 with normal street driving, etc.

But every once in a while, I see what appears to be posts that go unchallenged that say 250 or greater = BAD.

What is the objective basis for this "> 250 = BAD" statement? Is there a document from Nissan or some other recognized credible source that indicates that > 250 in the 370Z is bad or is this general automotive common sense (which I have none of I admit - this is why I am asking).

Thanks all - looking forward to insightful responses.

travisjb · 06-02-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Well, I had my first go at a track today. This oil cooler issue may be moot when street driving in most cases, but it's a real issue with anything on the track. I had to keep backing off as the temp hit 260 to protect the engine as the car is my daily driver.

I did some hotlaps in another 370 driven by a professional, and he essentially said that Nissan $hit the bed by leaving out the oil cooler. One definitely belongs in the car.

On the flip side, the 370Z is a dream on the track. I had a blast with mine, and the laps with the pro were eye openers with showing just what this car can do. My buddy almost puked after two laps with him!

Chris, that's awesome you got it to the track... I know what you mean about the difference between us mere mortals driving, then getting in the passenger seat and letting a pro drive... I had that same experience when I brought my wife's ISF to the Bondurant School... if my wife only knew what we did to the car that day !

In any event, please post a track day thread if you have time ! thanks

rbratton · 06-02-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashi

260 = very bad

What is your basis for saying that 260 is too hot? I spoke with an engineer at Exxon today that claimed Mobil 1 synthetic oil does not even begin to break down until temps are above 400 degrees. He said the oil will perform excellent at 260 degrees. Is there something else in the engine that fails above the aforementioned temperature that I'm not thinking about?

Like I said in my previous post, I tracked my car last weekend at Barber in Birmingham. I have the Stillen cooler; with ambient temps in the high 90s, my oil temp was at 260 by the second lap and stayed there for all 8 twenty minute sessions. I never experienced limp mode...

Also, I inquired about oil temps in other track cars and 260-270 is common even amongst M3s.

Again, why 260?

I'm inclined to believe 260 is fine...

spearfish25 · 06-02-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbratton

I'm inclined to believe 260 is fine...

I'm inclined to agree with this conclusion.

1) Limp mode would be set at 260F if Nissan was concerned about engine components at this temp

2) synthetic oil is fine at 260F

3) Nissan engineers have said this temperature is fine

All this about engine components being 'soft' and 'degrading' at 260+ seems to be based on people's experiences with other engines. I have yet to see any hard evidence that the 370's VQ engine has metals with melting points near the 260F mark. Aluminum certainly doesn't melt at this temperature...engine parts would have to be made entirely of very soft metals for this temperature to be an issue.

Of the three metals in the technosquare article, only tin has a low melting point.

Aluminum 660 C
Zinc 420 C
Tin 217 C

I highly doubt any part of the metal in the engine is composed MAINLY of tin. If someone knows differently please post the respective component and its relative composition of tin to provide some reputable evidence towards the contrary.

wstar · 06-03-2009, 10:31 AM

It's not about the oil 'breaking down' at 260. We know a good synthetic will technically live through higher temps than that and still be usable oil. The primary issue is that viscosity drops as heat is added, and there's nothing Nissan's engineering or an oil company's engineering can do about that. If there was, they wouldn't still sell different weights of oil. They'd sell all 0w20 that was magically engineering to never lose viscosity to heat. There's a chart for the viscosity drop of various oil weights at various temperatures that's been posted in this thread multiple times I think.

The issue is that the 5w-30 you put in your car is getting too thin at 260+, which will cause wear issues in the long run. You can 'fix' this to a degree by running a much higher viscosity quality synthetic (such as 15w50), but you're trading cold-start protection when you do.

tranceformer · 06-03-2009, 10:55 AM

Well I just got back from ZDAYZ the other day. I made sure to closely watch my oil temp gauge whenever I could. I've had the car for about 3 months now so I've got a good idea of how it behaves now.

Typical city/highway driving here in NJ:
amb temp: 70's usually (lately)
daytime: 210*F to 220*F
night time: usually 10*F cooler

"Somewhat aggressive" driving at ZDAYZ (excluding the dragon):
Note: mostly 3rd gear, using midrange RPM's usually from 40mph to 70mph, sometimes to redline
amb temp: 80's and higher
daytime: 240*F to 250*F
nightime: didn't have the balls or sobriety to do night time driving

I knew that limp mode would start cutting in around 260*F. There was a few cases when I got above 250*F, usually would end up shifting up a gear to let her cool off, and/or getting stuck behind a slower car. I actually got a picture of the gauge at 260*F but that was during a steep incline in 2nd gear, using the upper RPM's to keep up with my friend ahead of me. We tried to datalog some oil temp #'s on my friend's 07 350z for comparison during that same run but cipher didn't save for some reason.

I don't think I really drove the car that hard, I consider myself a noob when it comes to this kind of driving. There aren't many nearby places in NJ like the roads at ZDAYZ so I'm not terribly upset with the high oil temperatures. In most cases, my oil temp would only get close to 260*F during highway shenanigan's with other cars.

With that said, I'm waiting for Nissan to release an oil cooler that isn't too pricey and keeps the factory warranty. Nismo S-tune, please?

semtex · 06-03-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

It's not about the oil 'breaking down' at 260. We know a good synthetic will technically live through higher temps than that and still be usable oil. The primary issue is that viscosity drops as heat is added, and there's nothing Nissan's engineering or an oil company's engineering can do about that. If there was, they wouldn't still sell different weights of oil. They'd sell all 0w20 that was magically engineering to never lose viscosity to heat. There's a chart for the viscosity drop of various oil weights at various temperatures that's been posted in this thread multiple times I think.

The issue is that the 5w-30 you put in your car is getting too thin at 260+, which will cause wear issues in the long run. You can 'fix' this to a degree by running a much higher viscosity quality synthetic (such as 15w50), but you're trading cold-start protection when you do.

Would a 0W-50 be better? Like Eneos? ENEOS - Products

spearfish25 · 06-03-2009, 11:03 AM

The whole technosquare article talks about soft, low melting point engine metals being a limiting factor for excessive engine oil temperatures. I agree that oil viscocity is an issue as well.

From what I've read, the wide operating range synthetic oils (e.g. 0W-50) use components of standard mineral oil to keep them thin at low temperatures. Thus, they don't have the longevity of a synthetic with a smaller 'window' like 10w-30 which doesn't have as much or any mineral oil component.

semtex · 06-03-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

The whole technosquare article talks about soft, low melting point engine metals being a limiting factor for excessive engine oil temperatures. I agree that oil viscocity is an issue as well.

From what I've read, the wide operating range synthetic oils (e.g. 0W-50) use components of standard mineral oil to keep them thin at low temperatures. Thus, they don't have the longevity of a synthetic with a smaller 'window' like 10w-30 which doesn't have as much or any mineral oil component.

Yep, that's true. The wider the range, the more prone an oil is to thermal breakdown. I'm just going to stick with 5W-30, install an oil cooler (at my next oil change) and be done with it.

ChrisSlicks · 06-03-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Would a 0W-50 be better? Like Eneos? ENEOS - Products

Stretched oils typically don't last as long as they are made up of high viscosity and low viscosity oils, but this one might be a good compromise if it truly is 100% synthetic like it says.

I like this warning on the web site.
"Do not drink this oil. (Swallowing this oil can cause diarrhea and nausea.)"

06-01-2009, 09:25 PM	#586 (permalink)
bluzman Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 349 Drives: Red Touring 7AT Rep Power: 16	Here's more anecdotal data. Had to go to a place near Phoenix last Friday, about 525 miles each way. From northern Santa Barbara county, that means most of the trip is a boring run through the desert on the I-10. The temperature was over 100 by the time I hit Palm Springs and stayed between 100 and 105 the rest of the way (about 250 miles). There are several long uphill pulls in that stretch (Indio to the Chiriaco Summit and from the Colorado River nearly all the way to Quartzite are 2 examples) so I figured I'd find out whether my Z has issues. In the heat, I mostly ran between 75 and 85 MPH (except for a few short bursts at higher speed while dusting off folks who thought they wanted to play but who found out they weren't in the same league with a 370Z). BTW, the A/C was on the whole time. Bottom line is that the oil temperature never got above 238 and then only on long pulls. On average I'd guesstimate that the oil temperature ran around 225. Like I said, this is just my experience with my car and my driving. I make no claims about broader implications. What I will say is that I personally am no longer concerned about oil temperature problems. YMMV. __________________ My Gallery

06-02-2009, 12:12 AM	#591 (permalink)
Cypress Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 49 Drives: 370Z Touring Sport Rep Power: 16	So why is over 250 bad? OK, car noob here. I am trying to understand what is considered good and what is considered bad. I read most of this thread and I see people posting various temps under various conditions. I must say that I can replicate much of what is reported, i.e. 220 with normal street driving, etc. But every once in a while, I see what appears to be posts that go unchallenged that say 250 or greater = BAD. What is the objective basis for this "> 250 = BAD" statement? Is there a document from Nissan or some other recognized credible source that indicates that > 250 in the 370Z is bad or is this general automotive common sense (which I have none of I admit - this is why I am asking). Thanks all - looking forward to insightful responses.

06-03-2009, 10:31 AM	#595 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	It's not about the oil 'breaking down' at 260. We know a good synthetic will technically live through higher temps than that and still be usable oil. The primary issue is that viscosity drops as heat is added, and there's nothing Nissan's engineering or an oil company's engineering can do about that. If there was, they wouldn't still sell different weights of oil. They'd sell all 0w20 that was magically engineering to never lose viscosity to heat. There's a chart for the viscosity drop of various oil weights at various temperatures that's been posted in this thread multiple times I think. The issue is that the 5w-30 you put in your car is getting too thin at 260+, which will cause wear issues in the long run. You can 'fix' this to a degree by running a much higher viscosity quality synthetic (such as 15w50), but you're trading cold-start protection when you do. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

06-03-2009, 10:55 AM	#596 (permalink)
tranceformer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,213 Drives: 2009 370Z PW 6MT Rep Power: 268	Well I just got back from ZDAYZ the other day. I made sure to closely watch my oil temp gauge whenever I could. I've had the car for about 3 months now so I've got a good idea of how it behaves now. Typical city/highway driving here in NJ: amb temp: 70's usually (lately) daytime: 210F to 220F night time: usually 10F cooler "Somewhat aggressive" driving at ZDAYZ (excluding the dragon): Note: mostly 3rd gear, using midrange RPM's usually from 40mph to 70mph, sometimes to redline amb temp: 80's and higher daytime: 240F to 250F nightime: didn't have the balls or sobriety to do night time driving I knew that limp mode would start cutting in around 260F. There was a few cases when I got above 250F, usually would end up shifting up a gear to let her cool off, and/or getting stuck behind a slower car. I actually got a picture of the gauge at 260F but that was during a steep incline in 2nd gear, using the upper RPM's to keep up with my friend ahead of me. We tried to datalog some oil temp #'s on my friend's 07 350z for comparison during that same run but cipher didn't save for some reason. I don't think I really drove the car that hard, I consider myself a noob when it comes to this kind of driving. There aren't many nearby places in NJ like the roads at ZDAYZ so I'm not terribly upset with the high oil temperatures. In most cases, my oil temp would only get close to 260F during highway shenanigan's with other cars. With that said, I'm waiting for Nissan to release an oil cooler that isn't too pricey and keeps the factory warranty. Nismo S-tune, please? __________________ Ray* 2009 370Z Base Sport 6MT / 12.860 @ 109.09mph / 1.921 60ft / street tires official 1/4 mile track times

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06-01-2009, 09:41 PM	#587 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 16	Spoke with consumer affairs today with no result basically they said the issue is with the engineers, asked about warranty if dealer installed nissan motorsport cooler would the warranty be intact, I really did not get a solid answer and no they will not put that in writing it would be a case by case basis. So sounds like we are in a wait and see mode to see what comes out in the future or go with an aftermarket solution and take our chances. Outside temps around 94 oil temps 240 to 260 range.

06-01-2009, 11:23 PM	#589 (permalink)
Musashi Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 357 Drives: 09 370Z 6speed Rep Power: 606	260 = very bad

06-03-2009, 11:03 AM	#598 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	The whole technosquare article talks about soft, low melting point engine metals being a limiting factor for excessive engine oil temperatures. I agree that oil viscocity is an issue as well. From what I've read, the wide operating range synthetic oils (e.g. 0W-50) use components of standard mineral oil to keep them thin at low temperatures. Thus, they don't have the longevity of a synthetic with a smaller 'window' like 10w-30 which doesn't have as much or any mineral oil component.