Everyone with oil temp issues

JohnnyBgood

Yeah--I grew up in Houston and just recently moved to Austin. It's 90 here today. I'm hovering right above 230 driving 10 miles to/from work running the rpm's up around 5.5K. I filled out my JD Power survey last week and unloaded about the oil temp issue as well.

spearfish25

I think Semtex or Wstar noted the engine temps seem to settle down slightly as the engine breaks in. Lately I've found the car sits at a happy 210-215 during most driving in 60-70F weather. Unfortunately, it's not enough to solve the temp problem with more aggressive driving in hot weather.

wstar

That was my theory, but I'm at 4K now and I'm starting to think break-in isn't going to change much.

My general mood on the oil temp issue changes from day to day. Every day is a new learning experience about our oil temp issues. This evening was particularly hot and muggy compared to recent times. On my evening drive the ambient air temp sensor on the car was reading 86F at about 7:45pm, and the car pretty quickly got up to 220 just cruising around very lightly. Got it up to about 235 by pushing the revs a little on the highway, but I didn't bother really going after the temp testing this evening. Took it quite a while, perhaps 7-8 minutes or so, to cool back down to 200 idling at a gas station with the hood popped before I shut it down (not that that's really necessary at 235-ish, I was just seeing how easily it came back down).

I suspect in the next few days I'm finally going to get to see how my oil temps do in some much hotter conditions when driving aggressively.

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SoCal 370Z

Engine Overheating Resolution

It is important in prompting Nissan to properly act on this issue—especially with the advent of summer fast upon us—that we up the ante on how to make our efforts count.

The Distinction:

Clearly this is an issue of life/safety as premature engine failure bought about through engine overheating is potentially a dire situation should we have an engine seize. Not to mention all the ramifications and shortfalls of Nissan's own warranty as it defaults to Nissan's own engineering miscalculation. Again, the distinction that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) will be reviewing and placing under consideration is the safety aspect.

Others have mentioned that Nissan did not act on an emissions, and tire wear issues. Why? Neither qualified as a life/safety issue. One was an environmental issue, and the other Nissan easily avoided as tire wear can be related to many aspects; this was not a matter of immediate tire blowout, but accelerated tire wear. Life/safety issues are pressing, and viewed seriously by the government (just when you thought the government wasn't worth a damn). The NHTSA has the power to require Nissan to issue a national recall versus a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB). A recall should be the goal as a TSB is at the discretion of the Service Department. All this can change if Nissan voluntarily does the right act and willingly rectifies this issue.

Life/Safety, and When It Matters:

Not all situations will bring about a recall as Nissan has intentionally implemented safeguards through Limp Mode when engine temperatures reach a certain point. Fine, if you are in slow moving traffic or have the opportunity to pullover. Disastrous in given situations such as climbing a grade in hot weather on a two-lane trucking route with no shoulder on the fast lane, and vehicles following tightly in the fast lane trying pass slow-moving vehicles in the slow lane—engagement of the Limp Mode could mean being rear-ended. My wife chose not to travel with our Z as we encounter this exact scenario on the way to visit her parents; even worse on the return route home. Nissan does not want nor need a headline reading, "Nissan Sports Car Causes Multiple Car Pile-Up on Interstate." This will not bode well with sales, forbid someone become seriously or fatally injured. Very bad press all around for Nissan if the resultant is because a 370Z suddenly decided to lower its speed causing the accident.

Specify to each brand oil and it composition is the temperature point that its lubricating properties breakdown. Oil from this point forth no longer lubricates the engine efficiently and necessitates an oil change. Failing to do so prematurely shortens the life of your engine. Period. Engine failure is not out of the question when something is left-out of the equation in keeping your engine running properly. Engine failure does not send you a convenient appointment reminder when it will occur and has the propensity of happening at the worst possible time. Driving on the road at highway speeds is not a good time for an engine failure when other drivers are also traveling at similar speeds. Engine failure means the loss of control of the vehicle as steering systems, braking systems, and the actual movement of the vehicle are seriously compromised. Life/safety issue? Uh, yes!

People Ask Questions, Rolling Billboards, Those PITA Surveys

Face it, driving around a 370Z with it just being released prompts questions from other interested parties and the last thing Nissan wants is an owner talking to a potential owner about the issues with the 370Z—specifically engine related problems. Driving a shiny, well-maintained 370Z is a rolling billboard for Nissan marketing, and they know it. Plus, it's free for Nissan! Keeping the enthusiast happy promotes repeat buyers, and additional free advertisement.

For those who have purchased a 370Z you know how quickly the surveys arrived in the mail…a bit too quickly for any meaningful statistical data. These surveys do not care about Nissan, other than the subscription Nissan might have with them, and these surveyors do not care about you the owner (or they would send more than a lousy buck to fill-out material they make money on selling). I feel that they are detrimental to resale values, and play on the euphoria of buying a new vehicle. A survey coming in the mail six months from the purchase makes better sense if you are trying to gather meaningful data. I am holding off filling-out any survey until the final resolution of this matter have been achieved.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T, find out what it means to me…

In the Japanese culture "losing face" is a serious matter; in the Japanese corporate world it is almost a sure means to being branded a "window watcher" where you are assigned menial tasks, and mostly spend you days reading the newspaper as everyone knows your new position. This situation might not lead to such a position for a Japanese Nissan employee(s), but it's pretty close. It is important that we take measures of saving face for Nissan to move this forward. Unfortunately, and I have personal experience with these matters, Japan's US branch of business relies heavily on US legal counsel, and to me, this is where our problem reside. The Japanese want to do the correct measure, the US legal advice, is well…I don't even have the time to delve into this abyss. The bright spot is that the Japanese, back in Japan, have the final say, lawyer or no lawyer. The US Customer Service person you speak with does not have a final say, the dealership's Service Department personal does not have a final say—Nissan corporate has the final say. Respect in dealing with the parties in this situation will move matters better.

Document, Document, Document:

Two things need to be accomplished: 1) Calling or emailing Nissan with your legitimate issue(s) and 2) filing a legitimate complaint with the NHTSA. Please, under no circumstance file any complaint that is misleading, albeit ever so slightly, is unacceptable.

Another helpful call will be to the Sales Manger of the Nissan dealership where you purchased your 370Z to telling them that you are concerned with your purchase owed to overheating issues. This way sales will know about it. If you take your 370Z in for servicing, and you are having, or very close to having, an overheating issue, get in on record when they write-up your service order. This measure is important regarding your rights as consumer and enacting the Lemon Law. To review your State's Lemon Law simply do a web search and find your State's actual law (typical the link with end a ".gov"). There are many websites that have all the States listed, but this is no guarantee they have current laws so do an individual search. An example: California Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law

When you file a concern with Nissan they give you a file number, the name, and telephone number of the person you are speaking with. Be prepared to tell them the mileage on your 370Z. Log all the dates, times, and contacts you speak with at Nissan Customer Service.

The Scheme of Things:

Speaking with Customer Service is merely recording your issue as the Customer Service representative has no authority other than to collect information and guide you within the intentional rote constraints. Escalating your compliant to a Customer Service Manager will yield the same results.

Results will come from either writing Nissan Japan directly, where it be noticed, and a report started internally; a NHTSA filing. Data from the States will eventually make its way to Japan, but writing Japan directly will cause corporate to ask questions of its US operations. There's no stopping the ball when that happens.

What to Expect When Nissan Corrects the Situation:

This is the proverbial PITA as it will mean a service department removing the front bumper fascia, along with other parts, and then installing the oil cooler. This can also mean missing fasteners, paint scratches, missing parts, or (in the best case scenario) a perfect retrofit. Either way I will probably be removing the front end after the retrofit and going over everything in detail to see it all has been performed correctly. All is contingent upon Nissan doing the right thing in this matter's resolution.

Closing Note (for now):

It is unimportant whether you use your 370Z for track and have added aftermarket parts as a national recall requires Nissan to remedy the issue. Besides, although Nissan will never say it publicly (remember that US legal counsel I mentioned above) but enthusiasts are the bread and butter of the Z sales.

If works both ways here…Nissan manufactures an automobile we are interested in, and we support Nissan for its decision through purchasing this automobile. Keeping a strong relationship versus an adversarial relationship is better for both parties.

My apologies for a lengthy post.

Carlos Ghosn, President and CEO
Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.
17-1, Ginza 6-chome, Chuo-ku
Tokyo 104-8023, Japan

United States Nissan Customer Affairs:
email: nnaconsumeraffairs@nissan-usa.com
telephone: (800) 647-7261

Nissan Motor Company Global Website

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

Also, and must be specific to your State (example given): Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law

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Minicobra1

Great post SoCal370 Now where is the address to Japan?

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antennahead

R-E-S-P-E-C-T, find out what it means to me…

"In the Japanese culture "losing face" is a serious matter; in the Japanese corporate world it is almost a sure means to being branded a "window watcher" where you are assigned menial tasks, and mostly spend you days reading the newspaper as everyone knows your new position. This situation might not lead to such a position for a Japanese Nissan employee(s), but it's pretty close. It is important that we take measures of saving face for Nissan to move this forward. Unfortunately, and I have personal experience with these matters, Japan's US branch of business relies heavily on US legal counsel, and to me, this is where our problem reside. The Japanese want to do the correct measure, the US legal advice, is well…I don't even have the time to delve into this abyss. The bright spot is that the Japanese, back in Japan, have the final say, lawyer or no lawyer. The US Customer Service person you speak with does not have a final say, the dealership's Service Department personal does not have a final say—Nissan corporate has the final say. Respect in dealing with the parties in this situation will move matters better."

Is Goshn Japanese?

John

scorpion90

I would think it is the address at the bottom of the post;

Carlos Ghosn, President and CEO
Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.
17-1, Ginza 6-chome, Chuo-ku
Tokyo 104-8023, Japan

Musashi

Socal370Z,
That was a very well written post. Excellent work! Thank you.

gpa7pk

Received a unsolicited call from Gara Pum, Nissan Customer Affairs, extension 41536, wanting to know if I had additional issues "Nissan" needed to know about as more messages, both voice and email, to Jennifer Irwin had been received using the file number I had opened last week - #6479687. I told him that I had placed the information on "The 370 Forum" and many 370Z owners as well as potential owners were disturbed by the design and safety flaw associated with very high engine oil temperatures especially with summer months still ahead of us. He said Nissan is aware of the problem and that an oil cooler kit, a Nissan Motorsports one, would be available in a few weeks. I asked if the cooler would be a recall item with full warrenty maintained - he wasn't sure, just that it would be available. He then mentioned they (Nissan) was "occasionally" monitoring the forum. I said great and then Nissan must have an idea of the scope of the problem and suggestions for a class action suit and letters to the NTSB were being considered if Nissan did not correctly resolve this serious issue. He asked that direct calls to Jennifer (x41622) not be made as she was terribly busy, but to use 1.800.647.7261. Whatever.

I hope they read SoCal's letter.

Keep those calls and emails coming.....

wstar

Honestly, (and remember most of this post is conjecture based on what I've seen in my car, and what others have posted here)...

I think even in the warmer parts of the US, for your average commuter that doesn't push the car too hard, they can probably live without the cooler. The temps may jump from time to time to 240 or maybe 250, but probably not enough to hit limp mode by far, and the engine will live plenty long to meet the warranty obligations.

The issue is going to be the enthusiast driver that pushes the car a little harder in hot conditions, or the track driver anywhere. But seeing as this car is very enthusiast/track-marketed, that's a valid concern (whereas it wouldn't be on, say, a Toyota Corolla).

I really don't mind if the oil cooler is an option we have to purchase with our own $$, I don't think a recall or Nissan footing the bill is really necessary. A Nissan (or Nismo or Nissan Motorsports) oil cooler option, available at launch, at a remotely reasonable price that is fully warrantied and offered through all the dealers as an option at purchase time would have been good enough.

However, they did not make one available at launch, and there are open questions about whether the coming Nissan Motorsports part is factory warrantied (not to mention the proprosed price is a bit high).

What would make me happy at this point would be for Nissan to publicly make a statement to the effect that they understand that the car will need additional oil cooling under some ambient/driving conditions (they can say that 'regular consumers' aren't affected if they want), and that for drivers experiencing unacceptable oil temperatures, they recommend installation of the Nissan Motorsports part or a quality aftermarket equivalent (which were released much more timely and have been the only option to date), with at least some kind of implicit understanding that 'recommend' means they're not going to try to deny warranty claims just because people are trying to protect the engine with aftermarket coolers.

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SoCal 370Z

But, how do you explain the following posts? And there is another somewhere on the forum where the owner was simply in stop and go traffic and had to pullover. Also, since a 370Z owner can move to another state where then they would start developing overheating problems. And a bigger question: Would you be at ease letting your wife drive long distances—alone, or with an elderly passenger—knowing there's a potential overheating issue?

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tcwong

I am not a 370Z owner yet, but I emailed Nissan about this. I just get a generic reply from them.

I like the car, but I don't want to buy a car knowing there's high oil temp issue in TEXAS. It's gonna be hot here in summer! If I have to pull over for stop and go traffic in a sports car, it's totally unacceptable!

blair

There appears to be an inherent misrepresentation by Nissan in making a factory oil cooler equipped car available to Car and Driver. As shown in the Car and Driver 370Z At-A-Glance Test Results .pdf posted on this site--http://www.the370z.com/images/370zfo...san%20370Z.pdf --the car supplied by Nissan for the test had both oil and differential coolers listed as a factory “options” for $500. estimated each. Nissan had to know that consumers would use the information derived from the test in making their decision as to whether to purchase the car. If Nissan told Car and Driver that the coolers were available options, knowing that it would be communicated to potential buyers, and that the availability of the coolers or the performance of the cars with coolers was a material fact in the purchasing decision, they could very well be liable for “fraud in the inducement’. The remedies for a “fraud in the inducement” could include rescission of the purchase—i.e. they would need to take the car back and refund all of the sale price. I believe that a legal action for rescission on behalf of all of the purchasers to date who had experienced oil temperature problems because they did not have, and could not acquire, the coolers could be a very powerful inducement to Nissan to do the right thing.

alan93rsa

I'll be sure to send corporate a copy of the bill of sale for my 370Z replacement, Cayman S, which doesn't need a cooler. I'll also let them know that I cancelled my Nismo order.

I have to admit that I did have fun with the Z. It put a smile on my face every morning in the garage. The Nismo might have induced an even bigger one.

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ChrisSlicks

Alan, I think you're on to something.

I love this car but it has some critical flaws, between the overheating and the psychotic ABS system I'm beginning to think I made a big mistake with this car. I should have bought a used Cayman.