Everyone with oil temp issues

Modshack · 11-25-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Seems to me his coupe is still stock and he doesn't have any problems. Wow, man, let it go.

"Other than normal" would be track use. Robert did not cause whatever "issues" people think they are having, nor is he in a position to speak for Nissan on this issue. He's been more than forthcoming here..

ChrisSlicks · 11-25-2009, 11:03 AM

Easy there Steve, Alan's not bashing. He's just looking for an honest answer that no one at Nissan is willing to give, quite a few of us are, most of us have given up.

At this point I have no problem adding an oil cooler to my car, but I too find it disappointing that one was not available as a factory option given that all the press cars did. Sure the press are pretty hard on the cars, a couple of them were even crashed from the brakes giving out (different issue), but all the magazine reviews clearly listed the oil coolers as options - that weren't available. I for one am simply stunned that the Nismo doesn't come with a cooler standard from the factory, I'm sure Nissan has there reasons but they aren't talking. No one from Nissan will give you a straight and honest answer.

ConchZ2 · 11-25-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

There wasn't really anything to solve.

I was as concerned as anyone reading all the doom and gloom posts (such as are in this thread). Early in my coupe's life the oil temps were reaching into the 250's with hard driving (notably on the Dragon and the Cherohala Skyway). But, it never got much above that and I never went into limp mode. Even with hard autocrossing; and hard runs on the Dragon, the Hellbender, the Skyway and the Devil's Triangle (to name a few) and a several thousand mile trip down Route 66 through 100+ degree days and southwestern desert and into Las Vegas I never encountered a problem with the oil temps and with using the Ester oil (as I've done without fail) and as the miles have added the temps have even dropped from the highest I've experienced.

My discussion with my mechanic friend, who I've mentioned before, also said there was a non-issue unless tracking the car. When he talks about Nissans I listen - not only has he been building and racing Nissans for 30+ years but his shop is the shop Nissan uses to maintain the heritage collection...Nissan trusts him and so do I.

I'd love to see the factory add an oil and/or transmission cooler; at least as an option but I doubt if more than 5% of the people who buy a 370 would ever actually need the option and I suspect that anyone routinely tracking their car would still need to add a larger oil cooler even if the factory supplied one so the option likely wouldn't even benefit those who probably most need it meaning it would be a wast of Nissan's money to do the tooling and design changes necessary to even offer it (and if they put them on every 370 then everyone would actually wind up paying for something they likely don't even need).

With that said, my questions to you are why are you still "here" and still, apparently, upset about this (at least upset enough to keep posting in this thread)?

I'm not suggesting you can't or shouldnt' be here - obviously you have as much right as anyone to be here but I don't see the point unless you just want to bash the 370. Why don't you just go out and enjoy your new Porsche and let us enjoy or Z's.

P.S. For anyone not familiar withe the Dragon, Devil's Triangle, etc. I mentioned above; just google "The Tail Of The Dragon" and you'll pull up a ton of information about these roads/routes...truly some of the most beautiful and challenging pieces of asphalt anywhere in the world.

+10 Robert

Modshack · 11-25-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Easy there Steve, Alan's not bashing. He's just looking for an honest answer that no one at Nissan is willing to give, quite a few of us are, most of us have given up.

No one from Nissan will give you a straight and honest answer.

I think a statement has already been issued on this (many many pages ago):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nissan USA
The 370Z has an engine protection system that reduces peak engine speeds when the oil temperature exceeds recommended levels in order to protect against possible engine damage. Aggressive driving of the 370Z on a race track at sustained high engine speeds can cause increases in oil temperature and may activate this engine protection system. To avoid activation of this engine protection system and these reduced peak engine speeds, Nissan recommends an oil cooler be fitted to the 370Z before driving it on a race track. A Nissan Motorsports accessory oil cooler kit is available for customer purchase through authorized Nissan dealerships for race track use. The part number is 21300-SS370.

An oil cooler is not necessary for normal operation of the vehicle on public roads. The addition of an oil cooler would have raised the price of the car and potentially moved it out of the reach of some customers. Value has been a core principle of the Z car since the original 240Z and we choose to uphold this core principle by not adding additional costs that are unnecessary for normal use. For those individuals who choose to drive their vehicle on a race track, the oil cooler is available as an aftersales item.

The oil cooler is a Nissan Motorsports item and as such is sold without warranty, express or implied, unless expressly prohibited by law in which case the warranty provided is the minimum required by law. The installation of the Nissan Motorsports oil cooler does not, by itself, “void” the vehicle warranty. However any damage caused by the installation or use of this part is expressly excluded under the terms of the Nissan New Vehicle Limited warranty.

alan93rsa · 11-25-2009, 11:27 AM

370Zsteve,

Bottom line out of the box the Cayman S beats the 370Z. Yes it costs more to do that. However, while at the track there have been far too many Z's sitting on hot days watching the Caymans roll onto the track. I'd suggest you (A) go out in a stock 09 Cayman S on track and do a back to back run in (B) a stock 370Z. Find a cool day and track so you can complete part B if you haven't added your oil cooler.

For my 370Z track experience on the one and only weekend at the track I was able to get 5 laps before the oil went north. So, $36000/5 laps for the weekend = $7200/lap or $72000/110 laps for the weekend = $654/lap. That's an order of magnitude cheaper on the first weekend. You know what they say about first impressions.

I haven't had anyone from Porsche telling me not to use my launch control nor have they reprogrammed it. And as I've said before under 'choice' I think the GTR is just plain ugly. Others find the Cayman ugly and I personally have no affinity towards the Panamera.

The 370Z continues to be a good bang for the buck. And from there you can go both ways.

As to why I continue to post here I feel the $36000 Nissan entry fee should allow me to write all I want.

Edit: This is in no way intended to offend any of the many people on this forum with whom I have had numerous and meaningful conversations!

Robert_Nash · 11-25-2009, 11:30 AM

In other words, you want to throw a pity party - that seems a bit childish to me.

Further, while I have a lot of respect for Porsche as a nameplate, I would have saved $10K or so and bought a 'Vette (and used some of the money I saved for better seats).

ChrisSlicks · 11-25-2009, 11:36 AM

Yes I've read that one before. I especially love the last part, which is why I've held off installing a cooler for so long.

Let me translate for you.
You only need an oil cooler if you go to the track. If you go to the track and we find out about it we can, at our discretion, void your factory warranty. We will take the fact that you have installed an oil cooler as evidence that you are driving on the track.

Sure, Porsche engines might blow up more frequently than the Nissan engines, but at least they replace them no questions asked during the warranty period.

Any time I've taken my car in to the dealer for any reason they have gone over the car inspecting for any evidence that the car has been on track. I am now very paranoid of that fact and will not be visiting a dealer again for that reason. If anything does break it will be a major pain having to remove all performance parts before bringing it in.

Robert_Nash · 11-25-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Yes I've read that one before. I especially love the last part, which is why I've held off installing a cooler for so long.

Let me translate for you.
You only need an oil cooler if you go to the track. If you go to the track and we find out about it we can, at our discretion, void your factory warranty. We will take the fact that you have installed an oil cooler as evidence that you are driving on the track.

Sure, Porsche engines might blow up more frequently than the Nissan engines, but at least they replace them no questions asked during the warranty period.

Any time I've taken my car in to the dealer for any reason they have gone over the car inspecting for any evidence that the car has been on track. I am now very paranoid of that fact and will not be visiting a dealer again for that reason. If anything does break it will be a major pain having to remove all performance parts before bringing it in.

I'm not sure your interpurtation of Nissan's position is accurate but even if so, such a position is not without precedent.

If memory serves, Subaru was handing out free memberships to SCCA and extolling the virtues of the WRX for autocrossing THEN turned around and voided warranties of the vehicles if people actully went out and participated in any SCCA Solo2 events.

Also; I've been doing "competition" things with my vehicles (of many different makes) since the early '73 when I bought my fist TransAm and I've found that what a "dealer" cares about varies a GREAT deal from dealer to dealer.

EDIT: Google is a wonderful thing isn't it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car And Driver

One thing we should note about the warranty: Subaru says it "excludes damage resulting from participation in competition or racing events." That's a reasonable clause, but the WRX comes with a free, yearlong membership to the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA). Among the numerous events the SCCA hosts is the Solo II autocross in which unmodified street cars run through a low-speed cone course (max speed is less than 60 mph). These courses are usually set up in parking lots, so there's nothing to run into and the cars go through one at a time. Isn't it safe to assume that a few WRX owners will appreciate the SCCA membership and try out a relatively harmless autocross? Probably. If you're one of them, be wary, as we've heard stories of dealers not honoring warranties if the car has been autocrossed. Full Story

ChrisSlicks · 11-25-2009, 12:01 PM

Yes, I've heard the Subaru story before. I think it's deplorable that a manufacturer would do this, especially something like Auto-X which is a perfect setup to learn how to drive your new car safely. As a result I will never buy a Subaru, and now I have to question whether I will buy another Nissan despite my preference towards them having owned several over the last 20 years.

Robert_Nash · 11-25-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Yes, I've heard the Subaru story before. I think it's deplorable that a manufacturer would do this, especially something like Auto-X which is a perfect setup to learn how to drive your new car safely. As a result I will never buy a Subaru, and now I have to question whether I will buy another Nissan despite my preference towards them having owned several over the last 20 years.

Frankly, I don't think manufacturers voiding warranties from any issues resulting or that may have resulted from competition and/or competition parts is either unusual or unreasonable.

Perhaps I'm a throwback to an earlier time but anytime I've modified my car from "stock" or participated in any sort of competition (be it 1/4 mile, road course, autocross or whatever) I've simply not expected the manufacturer to jump in and do warranty work for me. Mass-produced street-legal passenger cars as NOT built for competition no matter how much people who buy "performance" cars want them to be and no matter what some New York ad agency does in commercials.

Modshack · 11-25-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Frankly, I don't think manufacturers voiding warranties from any issues resulting or that may have resulted from competition and/or competition parts is either unusual or unreasonable.

Very true

ChrisSlicks · 11-25-2009, 12:54 PM

I'm willing to deal with breakages subject to my own abuse myself. The only part I want Nissan to cover for a couple of years is the engine itself, which should be able to stand up to some auto-x and HPDE track time.

semtex · 11-25-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

Mass-produced street-legal passenger cars as NOT built for competition no matter how much people who buy "performance" cars want them to be and no matter what some New York ad agency does in commercials.

This might be slightly OT, but I've always wondered about something. I don't have a problem with saying that mass-produced street-legal cars aren't for competition or track use or whatever. But why sell mass-produced street-legal cars with top speeds of 150 mph then? I mean, it's kind of a mixed message, isn't it? Here, buy our car that is capable of speeds well in excess of any speed limit in the country. Oh but the car isn't intended to actually be driven at those speeds. You know what people say about driving fast, right? "Take it to the track!" Okay, so you take it to the track, only for manufacturers to say "Hey our cars aren't intended for track/competition use. No warranty for you!!!"

Robert_Nash · 11-25-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

This might be slightly OT, but I've always wondered about something. I don't have a problem with saying that mass-produced street-legal cars aren't for competition or track use or whatever. But why sell mass-produced street-legal cars with top speeds of 150 mph then? I mean, it's kind of a mixed message, isn't it? Here, buy our car that is capable of speeds well in excess of any speed limit in the country. Oh but the car isn't intended to actually be driven at those speeds. You know what people say about driving fast, right? "Take it to the track!" Okay, so you take it to the track, only for manufacturers to say "Hey our cars aren't intended for track/competition use. No warranty for you!!!"

Because they can.

Because people want them.

They excite people and bring people into the showrooms (even people who can't buy them either for $ reasons or practical reasons).

Engineers like designing performance cars.

Auto executives like building performance cars.

How many more reasons do you want???

However, most manufacturers aren't going to risk bankrupting themselves by telling people they can go race their cars on a track somewhere.

Modshack · 11-25-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

I don't have a problem with saying that mass-produced street-legal cars aren't for competition or track use or whatever. But why sell mass-produced street-legal cars with top speeds of 150 mph then? I mean, it's kind of a mixed message, isn't it? Here, buy our car that is capable of speeds well in excess of any speed limit in the country. Oh but the car isn't intended to actually be driven at those speeds. You know what people say about driving fast, right? "Take it to the track!"

Amusing anecdote from 1983....Back then I worked for the Honda M/C division...We introduced the fastest and most aggressive street bike ever for it's day, the VF1100 Magna. You may or not remember the wild smokey drag strip burnouts (by Peewee Gleason, a professional drag racer) in the intro ad. It was exciting. It dragged people into showrooms by the droves. Unfortunately the sales guys failed to check with the legal guys on this (the Japaneses were a bit Naive at the time). The "implied usage" was determined to be a problem and the ad was pulled... These days it is rare to see a car or bike portrayed in a race environment without a paragraph of disclaimers. One of the greatest Corvette ads ever got canned for much the same reason....Promoting underage and reckless driving. The Lawyers control our world, like it or not..

11-25-2009, 11:27 AM	#1115 (permalink)
alan93rsa Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 412 Drives: 16 Cayman GT4 Red Rep Power: 220	370Zsteve, Bottom line out of the box the Cayman S beats the 370Z. Yes it costs more to do that. However, while at the track there have been far too many Z's sitting on hot days watching the Caymans roll onto the track. I'd suggest you (A) go out in a stock 09 Cayman S on track and do a back to back run in (B) a stock 370Z. Find a cool day and track so you can complete part B if you haven't added your oil cooler. For my 370Z track experience on the one and only weekend at the track I was able to get 5 laps before the oil went north. So, $36000/5 laps for the weekend = $7200/lap or $72000/110 laps for the weekend = $654/lap. That's an order of magnitude cheaper on the first weekend. You know what they say about first impressions. I haven't had anyone from Porsche telling me not to use my launch control nor have they reprogrammed it. And as I've said before under 'choice' I think the GTR is just plain ugly. Others find the Cayman ugly and I personally have no affinity towards the Panamera. The 370Z continues to be a good bang for the buck. And from there you can go both ways. As to why I continue to post here I feel the $36000 Nissan entry fee should allow me to write all I want. Edit: This is in no way intended to offend any of the many people on this forum with whom I have had numerous and meaningful conversations! __________________ 16 Cayman GT4, Carmine Red, Buckets, PCCB etc. Last edited by alan93rsa; 11-25-2009 at 11:35 AM.

11-25-2009, 11:30 AM	#1116 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 17	In other words, you want to throw a pity party - that seems a bit childish to me. Further, while I have a lot of respect for Porsche as a nameplate, I would have saved $10K or so and bought a 'Vette (and used some of the money I saved for better seats). __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama - Last edited by Robert_Nash; 11-25-2009 at 12:00 PM.

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11-25-2009, 11:03 AM	#1112 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Easy there Steve, Alan's not bashing. He's just looking for an honest answer that no one at Nissan is willing to give, quite a few of us are, most of us have given up. At this point I have no problem adding an oil cooler to my car, but I too find it disappointing that one was not available as a factory option given that all the press cars did. Sure the press are pretty hard on the cars, a couple of them were even crashed from the brakes giving out (different issue), but all the magazine reviews clearly listed the oil coolers as options - that weren't available. I for one am simply stunned that the Nismo doesn't come with a cooler standard from the factory, I'm sure Nissan has there reasons but they aren't talking. No one from Nissan will give you a straight and honest answer.

11-25-2009, 11:36 AM	#1117 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Yes I've read that one before. I especially love the last part, which is why I've held off installing a cooler for so long. Let me translate for you. You only need an oil cooler if you go to the track. If you go to the track and we find out about it we can, at our discretion, void your factory warranty. We will take the fact that you have installed an oil cooler as evidence that you are driving on the track. Sure, Porsche engines might blow up more frequently than the Nissan engines, but at least they replace them no questions asked during the warranty period. Any time I've taken my car in to the dealer for any reason they have gone over the car inspecting for any evidence that the car has been on track. I am now very paranoid of that fact and will not be visiting a dealer again for that reason. If anything does break it will be a major pain having to remove all performance parts before bringing it in.

11-25-2009, 12:01 PM	#1119 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Yes, I've heard the Subaru story before. I think it's deplorable that a manufacturer would do this, especially something like Auto-X which is a perfect setup to learn how to drive your new car safely. As a result I will never buy a Subaru, and now I have to question whether I will buy another Nissan despite my preference towards them having owned several over the last 20 years.

11-25-2009, 12:54 PM	#1122 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	I'm willing to deal with breakages subject to my own abuse myself. The only part I want Nissan to cover for a couple of years is the engine itself, which should be able to stand up to some auto-x and HPDE track time.