After Market Cams Possible or Impossible?

G37sHKS · 09-20-2010, 06:54 AM

Hello People

It sucks how we can only do breathing mods on our VHR for people who wanna do N/A build.. oh and a tune too..

Why we still dont have after market cams? is it because of VVEL?
is it like impossible to make after market cams for us??

if its impossible then okay no need for suggestion.
but if its possible then why those companies are taking that long??
if its possible then our vendors please push those companies to make some cams for us!!

its been two years since VHR was released and until today no cams..

1slow370 · 09-20-2010, 10:38 AM

Our motor doesn't have intake cams. I don't think it's impossible to add them but the vvel is awesome in that we already have i think .485 lift on the intake but it idles smooth because it can reduce valve lift.

G37sHKS · 09-21-2010, 02:30 PM

cool this is the first time im gland i have VVEL to be honest

okay what about exhaust camshaft? any idea on that too?

BGTV8 · 09-21-2010, 07:20 PM

The reason there are no aftermarket cams is the VVEL ... there is an interesting article on a competitor forum (search Mike Kojima+Nissan VVEL) in google you should find it. Wikipedia also has some interesting material.

You can also find a heap more referecens via google, but the long and short of the matter is that the intake cam is continuously variable in timing and lift, and the exhaust cams profile is matched to it, so your regular camshaft guy is not going to be able to assist. If you want an upspec'd engine, then purchase a 350DE block and heads and install a strocker kit with your chosen cams. This is what Nissan have done in GT4 competition in Europe (see http://www.rjnmotorsport.com ) and in the all Japan GT series with the NISMO 350Z as there are no user or dealer-serviceable parts in the VQ37 VVEL head.

It is worth noting that the throttle butterfly in the throttle body spends "most" of its time fully open as the air-supply at low throttle openings in actually implemented by the VVEL controller reducing inlet lift to <1mm ..... this is one complex engine and it will be a while before the after market cracks the controller logic and the mechanical setup of the VVEl system to come up with upgrades.

If you check the Mike Kojima related URL, you;ll find a video clip and several (5 I think) pages of additional text which dicusses the complexities.

I think you will then appreciate what the Nissan engineers have done.

1slow370 · 09-22-2010, 06:43 AM

or all of that information is here for the vvel just use the search.

gorillanismo · 09-22-2010, 04:15 PM

but in the Mitsubishi Evo 9 have MIVEC and they have intake and exhaust cams available...

1slow370 · 09-23-2010, 03:26 AM

yeah well mivec is the same as nissans CVTC wich every nissan has. the 370z has cvtc which is the "camshaft variable timing control" and then there is the vvel which is the "variable valve event and lift" cvtc advances or retardes the intake cam timing and vvel can actually adjust the lift and duration. Go to wikipedia and read about camshafts if that seems foreign. basically our cars can do electronically what other cars need cam swaps for.

destinyZ · 09-23-2010, 06:06 AM

pretty much.

gorillanismo · 09-23-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

yeah well mivec is the same as nissans CVTC wich every nissan has. the 370z has cvtc which is the "camshaft variable timing control" and then there is the vvel which is the "variable valve event and lift" cvtc advances or retardes the intake cam timing and vvel can actually adjust the lift and duration. Go to wikipedia and read about camshafts if that seems foreign. basically our cars can do electronically what other cars need cam swaps for.

ok, thanks for the clarification, just for made some comparisons, VVEL is not the same as VTEC-i and CVTC is same as VTEC of Honda??

this is to just have everything clear..

1slow370 · 09-24-2010, 01:05 AM

vtec is actually a second cam lobe ground for higher rpms, and when a honda gets up to speed it switches rocker arms to the high performance lobe. CVTC is a hydraulic system in the intake pulley that can advace or retard the intake cam in relation to the rest of the engine +-40 degrees (about). i-vetc is similar to cvtc, vtec is like vvel except you have on and off instead of being able to electronicly vary it anywhere inbetween at any rpm. additionaly some vtec motors would only switch one of the two intake valves per cylinder to the larger lobe which created a pressure differential in the head and supposedly induced swirl in the combustion chamber upon Vtec activation. Fords newest version of variable cam timing found on the new 5.0 is basically a ripoff of cvtc as the parts are all designed to function exactly like the nissan system. also if the new 5.0 is still a pushrod single cam engine there will be negligable benefits from having cam timing as the lobe seperation angle will still be fixed

In my opinion the new toyota version of vvel is going to be the one to beat once it is used on more engines. Thankfully toyota doesn't make a decent RWD sports car any more so it will never be used on an engine with more than 250hp

Lug · 09-24-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Fords newest version of variable cam timing found on the new 5.0 is basically a ripoff of cvtc as the parts are all designed to function exactly like the nissan system. also if the new 5.0 is still a pushrod single cam engine there will be negligable benefits from having cam timing as the lobe seperation angle will still be fixed

I thought that was the primary reason they were able to boost almost 100 more HP over the 2010 4.6L and still improve gas mileage.

1slow370 · 09-24-2010, 01:49 PM

sorry was thinking the old 3 valve 4.6 which is single cam. the new 5.0 is DOHC so intake and exhaust valve timing actually works the way it should. there is a lot of other stuff done to the new 5.0 as well like the 11.0 to 1 compression ratio which is a point higher than the older engines, as well as redesigned higher flowing heads. the 3 valve motors had SOHC with useless cam timing.

09-20-2010, 06:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
G37sHKS A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,183 Drives: 09 G37S Coupe 7AT Rep Power: 20	After Market Cams Possible or Impossible? Hello People It sucks how we can only do breathing mods on our VHR for people who wanna do N/A build.. oh and a tune too.. Why we still dont have after market cams? is it because of VVEL? is it like impossible to make after market cams for us?? if its impossible then okay no need for suggestion. but if its possible then why those companies are taking that long?? if its possible then our vendors please push those companies to make some cams for us!! its been two years since VHR was released and until today no cams..

09-20-2010, 10:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Our motor doesn't have intake cams. I don't think it's impossible to add them but the vvel is awesome in that we already have i think .485 lift on the intake but it idles smooth because it can reduce valve lift. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-21-2010, 07:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
BGTV8 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 03350 Australia Posts: 1,514 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 39973	The reason there are no aftermarket cams is the VVEL ... there is an interesting article on a competitor forum (search Mike Kojima+Nissan VVEL) in google you should find it. Wikipedia also has some interesting material. You can also find a heap more referecens via google, but the long and short of the matter is that the intake cam is continuously variable in timing and lift, and the exhaust cams profile is matched to it, so your regular camshaft guy is not going to be able to assist. If you want an upspec'd engine, then purchase a 350DE block and heads and install a strocker kit with your chosen cams. This is what Nissan have done in GT4 competition in Europe (see http://www.rjnmotorsport.com ) and in the all Japan GT series with the NISMO 350Z as there are no user or dealer-serviceable parts in the VQ37 VVEL head. It is worth noting that the throttle butterfly in the throttle body spends "most" of its time fully open as the air-supply at low throttle openings in actually implemented by the VVEL controller reducing inlet lift to <1mm ..... this is one complex engine and it will be a while before the after market cracks the controller logic and the mechanical setup of the VVEl system to come up with upgrades. If you check the Mike Kojima related URL, you;ll find a video clip and several (5 I think) pages of additional text which dicusses the complexities. I think you will then appreciate what the Nissan engineers have done. Last edited by BGTV8; 09-21-2010 at 07:31 PM.

09-22-2010, 06:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	or all of that information is here for the vvel just use the search. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-22-2010, 04:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
gorillanismo Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 112 Drives: 03Chevrolet Cavalier Rep Power: 16	but in the Mitsubishi Evo 9 have MIVEC and they have intake and exhaust cams available... __________________ SHIFT: The Future NISSAN

09-21-2010, 02:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
G37sHKS A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,183 Drives: 09 G37S Coupe 7AT Rep Power: 20	cool this is the first time im gland i have VVEL to be honest okay what about exhaust camshaft? any idea on that too?

09-23-2010, 03:26 AM	#7 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	yeah well mivec is the same as nissans CVTC wich every nissan has. the 370z has cvtc which is the "camshaft variable timing control" and then there is the vvel which is the "variable valve event and lift" cvtc advances or retardes the intake cam timing and vvel can actually adjust the lift and duration. Go to wikipedia and read about camshafts if that seems foreign. basically our cars can do electronically what other cars need cam swaps for. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-23-2010, 06:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
destinyZ Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Guam, USA Age: 36 Posts: 415 Drives: FROM INDIANA Rep Power: 15	pretty much.

09-24-2010, 01:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	vtec is actually a second cam lobe ground for higher rpms, and when a honda gets up to speed it switches rocker arms to the high performance lobe. CVTC is a hydraulic system in the intake pulley that can advace or retard the intake cam in relation to the rest of the engine +-40 degrees (about). i-vetc is similar to cvtc, vtec is like vvel except you have on and off instead of being able to electronicly vary it anywhere inbetween at any rpm. additionaly some vtec motors would only switch one of the two intake valves per cylinder to the larger lobe which created a pressure differential in the head and supposedly induced swirl in the combustion chamber upon Vtec activation. Fords newest version of variable cam timing found on the new 5.0 is basically a ripoff of cvtc as the parts are all designed to function exactly like the nissan system. also if the new 5.0 is still a pushrod single cam engine there will be negligable benefits from having cam timing as the lobe seperation angle will still be fixed In my opinion the new toyota version of vvel is going to be the one to beat once it is used on more engines. Thankfully toyota doesn't make a decent RWD sports car any more so it will never be used on an engine with more than 250hp __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 09-24-2010 at 01:11 AM.

09-24-2010, 01:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	sorry was thinking the old 3 valve 4.6 which is single cam. the new 5.0 is DOHC so intake and exhaust valve timing actually works the way it should. there is a lot of other stuff done to the new 5.0 as well like the 11.0 to 1 compression ratio which is a point higher than the older engines, as well as redesigned higher flowing heads. the 3 valve motors had SOHC with useless cam timing. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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