VVEL delete?
 

Is there any interest in a VVEL delete kit? Some possible benefits, may include head serviceability, easier to run higher rpms/ increase valve lift by using higher lift cams. Negatives would include loping idle (based on cam profile), and the torque curve would be shifted as well. Not selling anything yet, j/w if it it would be worth my time.

Oh yeah and there would be almost no point in running ester oil.

Also you could then use a stand alone ecu to control everything about the engine as well as put cable throttle bodies on.

I have to admit that I would not be able to buy it, but that should be extremely interesting for those with FI or are looking to go after all out N/A power. Is it simply easier to remove VVEL to open up more headroom for power rather than cracking VVEL adjustability?

I have a hunch that removing VVEL might also resolve the throttle delay issues. :icon14:

Hmm. I don't know how beneficial this would be for N/A guys... are you planning to replace the whole head and TB's?

VVEL delete kit = 07-08 HR heads :D

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to be able to tune using the VVEL rather than delete it completley and lose that tunability? Or am I thinking off base here.

No one has figured out how to tune it yet, so we don't know.

That is of course the other huge question, I can see where getting rid of it would be helpfull if it really is "uncrackable".

Yep. If we can't control it, just get rid of it and go back to a system that we can. :tup:

Nothing is uncrackable (and based on how Nissan handled the valve chatter issue on the G37's, it's almost definitely relashable).

Even if the ECU remains a mystery, I don't see why the right signals going to the actual controller can't be spoofed with a piggy back signal conditioner... this is essentially how the camcon works.

Somebody who's good with electronics needs to tear apart the sensors going to the head :tup:

I like the idea too. I'm not a fan of the lack of control we have over it. Not because we can't use it to make power, but because of the amount of power we lose when it senses higher engine oil temps...

as for using 07 -08 hr heads.... F that the heads we have are too bitchin to not use hell it could probably be a big gain for the hr guys to swap our heads. I would be retofitting intake cams into the 370z heads because the heads on the 370 have revised port geometries, revised valve areas, revised casting around the spark plug to decrease hotspots, and are over all awesome. The plan since i have an extra set of heads right now would be to either go this route and stand alone with cable throttles, or max the vvel out.i'm looking into making some titanium valves and using berilium copper seats, with upgrade springs and titanium retainers and locks as well either way depending on if i want to blow that much cash in my heads. If i were to eventually sell these it would probably be a tuner type package and a full kit with a couple cam options. the tuner level package would be everything except the standalone, and the full kit would have a stand alone with a harness adapter to avoid cutting any wires.

and for the NA guys there would be a gain because you wouldn't be limited to the amount of lift and duration that the vvel maxes out at. Plus if your cam or lifters scored nissan and your warranty is voided you would be able to fix it so long as the cam bearing surfaces aren't crap.

the problem with that is that all throttle control is mainly done with the vvel, so traction control, idle control, general throttling, and everything related to it would have to be controlled by the piggyback. NO way is an emanage gonna do that. the complexity of it is also why it is so frickin hard to crack, nothing is impossible but to companies sometimes somethings just aren't worth there time.

On that note if uprev could make a flash for the ecu to totally disregard the vvel and send all the throttle duties to the throttle bodies, and still have the cam timing system work, that would make this conversion hella easy as well as allow someone to make said piggyback vvel box to just control valve lift based on rpm and have all the air flow duties handled by the ecu/throttlebodies. If they are having trouble doing it from a reflash why not just go that route. That would make putting twinscrew on frickin easy too which would make me happy. This would even allow someone to put a simple lock plate in place of the actuator to hold the vvel at max open to act like a big cam.

What did you find out about that 'magic' adjustment screw on the extra set of heads you have?

nothin much yet, been busy with the the csc, and work, i plan to start next month, but i did take a look at it and it looks like i'm going to need to disassemble most of the head to adjust it properly. its definitely not an on the car job.

That's a really, really good idea -- yeah, if you can do that, a realtively simple controller could probably handle the VVEL actuation without actually uncracking the ECU for it.

Although if currently throttle control is essentially equivalent to VVEL timing, I wonder if you can simply tune by TPS adjustment and indirectly adjut VVEL that way.

And a twinscrew or standard roots blower on this car would be awesome :yum:

well we can forget about uprev developing anything more for us, they want to be given $30,000 to develop anything more than they already have, but they are looking at tuning the vvel just a little bit for there uprev flash tune in the future but they said they were backed up 2 years with other projects of that nature anyway so it could be awhile. for any kind of developed project like this they would need to sell a minimum of 100 units.

so basically anything i want to do i have to do myself.

Well, I appreciate all your work about trying to find viable solutions to exploit the potential of VVEL or to work around it. It is a shame that it is just so darn hard to crack though! If there was a real possibility that Uprev could find a way to add VVEL controlability, I would be down to pay for it considering it would cost roughly the same as a tune.

from what he said they have the ability to do it they just don't have the time or see the need for it. The work they said they were considering doing for it was going to be a retune, not giving you control over it. He did say they were going to look and see if the nismo tune had any differences in the vvel and that would be available.

They did seem like they were skirting the issue and trying to drown us out by saying it would cost them thirty grand, and he would need 10 cars given to him that he would be able to beat on and we would have to pay for any rebuilds or parts that broke, which would all have to be readily available. and when i told him i could get him one car (mine) he paused for about 10 seconds and then told me that he might have to have it for 6 months or more which i said was fine, and then he told me it could take years so i think they were just trying to shut me up and say they don't want to do it, without actually saying it. This kind of RD cost to me seems outrageous, given the nature of software development, and that is there is little to no capitol required to do it, he did make some valid points though that i see as problems and that would be volume of sales, the amount of gains being unkown, needing to have a vehicle to work on (I thought they were buying one weren't they?), needing a dyno to run it on (shame a tuning company that develops software doesn't have one of those), and his backlog of projects (which seems like a shortfalling of resources and manpower). I think it's unfortunate they aren't bigger and better equipped to handle some of the daunting projects they have available, They have a good product, and the ability to do it just not the resources a larger company would have that would make it possible and timely. It would be awesome if stillen or gtm or someone big like them could just suck up uprev in a corporate takeover and that would solve all our problems.

Ok there has been a shift in my plans, monetary situation permitting, tuning the vvel system and re-doing the throttle controls is going to come first as this is a qualifying step for future projects. This is mostly planned out already and as soon as i find a tunning solution cheaper than an $8,000 fully loaded motec unit with custom calibrations it will be a go. After that is done I'm going to decide wether to push forward with the heads or get my twinscrew on (which i have been lusting after for some time).

Call SAM Dammit!!! LMAO :tup:

UpRev tune does this :tup:

i called sam we talked, and decided it can be done with the motec, if i gave them my controls for the vvel actuators it could probably happen faster as they have all the motec stuff, but in the interest of availability I'm going to try and find a solution that can bring it down cheaper, with a different ecu.

(just thinking out loud) Since the VQ35HR heads aren't as beefed as the VQ37 heads. did you look in to the VR38DETT heads. do they bolt on our block? if yes! then we can use the VR38 ECU with AP, or Haltech.

I have to say, this stuff is too cool. Would this void the warranty?* :)

VR heads will not bolt to the VQ with out major work.

1slow370 .... looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

:iagree:

What a pity.

Same here. and good luck

thanks hopefully one of these days that i call haltec tech-service i'll get something other than voicemail

Are VHR heads THAT much superior over the HR in terms of strength? Why not just build an HR head with larger valves, cams, etc.?