VVEL delete?

1slow370 · 09-15-2010, 06:27 AM

Is there any interest in a VVEL delete kit? Some possible benefits, may include head serviceability, easier to run higher rpms/ increase valve lift by using higher lift cams. Negatives would include loping idle (based on cam profile), and the torque curve would be shifted as well. Not selling anything yet, j/w if it it would be worth my time.

Oh yeah and there would be almost no point in running ester oil.

Also you could then use a stand alone ecu to control everything about the engine as well as put cable throttle bodies on.

christian370z · 09-15-2010, 11:05 AM

I have to admit that I would not be able to buy it, but that should be extremely interesting for those with FI or are looking to go after all out N/A power. Is it simply easier to remove VVEL to open up more headroom for power rather than cracking VVEL adjustability?

DIGItonium · 09-15-2010, 12:14 PM

I have a hunch that removing VVEL might also resolve the throttle delay issues.

Jordo! · 09-15-2010, 12:18 PM

Hmm. I don't know how beneficial this would be for N/A guys... are you planning to replace the whole head and TB's?

Chris@FsP · 09-15-2010, 12:22 PM

VVEL delete kit = 07-08 HR heads

Neo187H · 09-15-2010, 03:35 PM

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to be able to tune using the VVEL rather than delete it completley and lose that tunability? Or am I thinking off base here.

m4a1mustang · 09-15-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo187H

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to be able to tune using the VVEL rather than delete it completley and lose that tunability? Or am I thinking off base here.

No one has figured out how to tune it yet, so we don't know.

Neo187H · 09-15-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

No one has figured out how to tune it yet, so we don't know.

That is of course the other huge question, I can see where getting rid of it would be helpfull if it really is "uncrackable".

m4a1mustang · 09-15-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo187H

That is of course the other huge question, I can see where getting rid of it would be helpfull if it really is "uncrackable".

Yep. If we can't control it, just get rid of it and go back to a system that we can.

Jordo! · 09-15-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo187H

That is of course the other huge question, I can see where getting rid of it would be helpfull if it really is "uncrackable".

Nothing is uncrackable (and based on how Nissan handled the valve chatter issue on the G37's, it's almost definitely relashable).

Even if the ECU remains a mystery, I don't see why the right signals going to the actual controller can't be spoofed with a piggy back signal conditioner... this is essentially how the camcon works.

Somebody who's good with electronics needs to tear apart the sensors going to the head

RCZ · 09-15-2010, 08:08 PM

I like the idea too. I'm not a fan of the lack of control we have over it. Not because we can't use it to make power, but because of the amount of power we lose when it senses higher engine oil temps...

1slow370 · 09-16-2010, 04:56 AM

as for using 07 -08 hr heads.... F that the heads we have are too bitchin to not use hell it could probably be a big gain for the hr guys to swap our heads. I would be retofitting intake cams into the 370z heads because the heads on the 370 have revised port geometries, revised valve areas, revised casting around the spark plug to decrease hotspots, and are over all awesome. The plan since i have an extra set of heads right now would be to either go this route and stand alone with cable throttles, or max the vvel out.i'm looking into making some titanium valves and using berilium copper seats, with upgrade springs and titanium retainers and locks as well either way depending on if i want to blow that much cash in my heads. If i were to eventually sell these it would probably be a tuner type package and a full kit with a couple cam options. the tuner level package would be everything except the standalone, and the full kit would have a stand alone with a harness adapter to avoid cutting any wires.

and for the NA guys there would be a gain because you wouldn't be limited to the amount of lift and duration that the vvel maxes out at. Plus if your cam or lifters scored nissan and your warranty is voided you would be able to fix it so long as the cam bearing surfaces aren't crap.

1slow370 · 09-16-2010, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Nothing is uncrackable (and based on how Nissan handled the valve chatter issue on the G37's, it's almost definitely relashable).

Even if the ECU remains a mystery, I don't see why the right signals going to the actual controller can't be spoofed with a piggy back signal conditioner... this is essentially how the camcon works.

Somebody who's good with electronics needs to tear apart the sensors going to the head

the problem with that is that all throttle control is mainly done with the vvel, so traction control, idle control, general throttling, and everything related to it would have to be controlled by the piggyback. NO way is an emanage gonna do that. the complexity of it is also why it is so frickin hard to crack, nothing is impossible but to companies sometimes somethings just aren't worth there time.

On that note if uprev could make a flash for the ecu to totally disregard the vvel and send all the throttle duties to the throttle bodies, and still have the cam timing system work, that would make this conversion hella easy as well as allow someone to make said piggyback vvel box to just control valve lift based on rpm and have all the air flow duties handled by the ecu/throttlebodies. If they are having trouble doing it from a reflash why not just go that route. That would make putting twinscrew on frickin easy too which would make me happy. This would even allow someone to put a simple lock plate in place of the actuator to hold the vvel at max open to act like a big cam.

IDZRVIT · 09-16-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

the problem with that is that all throttle control is mainly done with the vvel, so traction control, idle control, general throttling, and everything related to it would have to be controlled by the piggyback. NO way is an emanage gonna do that. the complexity of it is also why it is so frickin hard to crack, nothing is impossible but to companies sometimes somethings just aren't worth there time.

On that note if uprev could make a flash for the ecu to totally disregard the vvel and send all the throttle duties to the throttle bodies, and still have the cam timing system work, that would make this conversion hella easy as well as allow someone to make said piggyback vvel box to just control valve lift based on rpm and have all the air flow duties handled by the ecu/throttlebodies. If they are having trouble doing it from a reflash why not just go that route. That would make putting twinscrew on frickin easy too which would make me happy. This would even allow someone to put a simple lock plate in place of the actuator to hold the vvel at max open to act like a big cam.

What did you find out about that 'magic' adjustment screw on the extra set of heads you have?

1slow370 · 09-16-2010, 04:00 PM

nothin much yet, been busy with the the csc, and work, i plan to start next month, but i did take a look at it and it looks like i'm going to need to disassemble most of the head to adjust it properly. its definitely not an on the car job.

09-15-2010, 06:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	VVEL delete? Is there any interest in a VVEL delete kit? Some possible benefits, may include head serviceability, easier to run higher rpms/ increase valve lift by using higher lift cams. Negatives would include loping idle (based on cam profile), and the torque curve would be shifted as well. Not selling anything yet, j/w if it it would be worth my time. Oh yeah and there would be almost no point in running ester oil. Also you could then use a stand alone ecu to control everything about the engine as well as put cable throttle bodies on. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-15-2010, 11:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
christian370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 3,900 Drives: 2010 370Z/Saab 900se Rep Power: 432	I have to admit that I would not be able to buy it, but that should be extremely interesting for those with FI or are looking to go after all out N/A power. Is it simply easier to remove VVEL to open up more headroom for power rather than cracking VVEL adjustability? __________________ -320whp / 259wftlbs- SP Rays -- RE-11s -- SpecialtyZ Tune -- Swift Springs -- Stillen 25R Oil Cooler -- Stillen G3 Intakes -- Berk HFCs -- F.I. 12" CBE -- Stillen Sway Bars -- Es14 Spring -- INGS+1 lip -- CF Spoiler -- GTR Start Button -- VLED Parking Lights -- PWJDM V2 shift knob

09-15-2010, 12:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	I have a hunch that removing VVEL might also resolve the throttle delay issues. __________________

09-15-2010, 12:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	Hmm. I don't know how beneficial this would be for N/A guys... are you planning to replace the whole head and TB's? __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it. Last edited by Jordo!; 09-15-2010 at 03:41 PM.

09-16-2010, 04:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	as for using 07 -08 hr heads.... F that the heads we have are too bitchin to not use hell it could probably be a big gain for the hr guys to swap our heads. I would be retofitting intake cams into the 370z heads because the heads on the 370 have revised port geometries, revised valve areas, revised casting around the spark plug to decrease hotspots, and are over all awesome. The plan since i have an extra set of heads right now would be to either go this route and stand alone with cable throttles, or max the vvel out.i'm looking into making some titanium valves and using berilium copper seats, with upgrade springs and titanium retainers and locks as well either way depending on if i want to blow that much cash in my heads. If i were to eventually sell these it would probably be a tuner type package and a full kit with a couple cam options. the tuner level package would be everything except the standalone, and the full kit would have a stand alone with a harness adapter to avoid cutting any wires. and for the NA guys there would be a gain because you wouldn't be limited to the amount of lift and duration that the vvel maxes out at. Plus if your cam or lifters scored nissan and your warranty is voided you would be able to fix it so long as the cam bearing surfaces aren't crap. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

09-15-2010, 12:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chris@FsP Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 430 Drives: 2008 350Z TT Rep Power: 369	VVEL delete kit = 07-08 HR heads

09-15-2010, 03:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
Neo187H Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 302 Drives: PW 370Z Rep Power: 16	Wouldn't it be more beneficial to be able to tune using the VVEL rather than delete it completley and lose that tunability? Or am I thinking off base here.

09-15-2010, 08:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	I like the idea too. I'm not a fan of the lack of control we have over it. Not because we can't use it to make power, but because of the amount of power we lose when it senses higher engine oil temps...

09-16-2010, 04:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	nothin much yet, been busy with the the csc, and work, i plan to start next month, but i did take a look at it and it looks like i'm going to need to disassemble most of the head to adjust it properly. its definitely not an on the car job. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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