I want a built shortblock but....

NYBladeZ · 08-12-2010, 06:53 PM

information is hard to come by. Of course I want to do the project in stages. I'm hoping to start the project around November/December. I've researched all over the web and I've checked out many 350z engine builds.

Right now I'm looking to keep it N/A and just build the shortblock. I plan on going F.I. after law school but I love an N/A motor. So I have a few questions.

Can I build the shortblock and then do the heads say 6 months later? I don't drive the car often so I wouldn't mind building the block and then the heads, I can be patient and rather have it done properly in stages.

I am shooting for 12.5:1 compression, any idea what kind of #'s I'd be looking at the wheels? My euro mechanic built his e46 M3 motor. He put down 340whp and redlines to 8500, his car is a monster and he's always in the powerband. With added displacement I'm sure a built VQ37 would put out similar if not greater numbers.

This is an introductory research attempt. If you have negative comments like just go S/C right now, clearly your missing the picture and didn't read the thread. Someone has to build a shortblock and I wouldn't mind being the first, any and all info appreciated.

Added note, I live literally down the block from Vinny Ten, a well known builder of 350z's on the Island so I might not even need to outsource. Still before I go knocking on his door I need to be informed so let the discussion begin.

Jeffblue · 08-12-2010, 07:15 PM

subscribed

JB-370z · 08-12-2010, 08:23 PM

Thats funny I had a talked with Sam today about building my block, also another buddy of mine wants to do the same. Sam would be the guy to talk to because he knows the VQ37 motor better than anyone at this point in the ball game.

I plan on doing a short block too. I want to lower the compression and up the boost.

theDreamer · 08-12-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB-370z

Thats funny I had a talked with Sam today about building my block, also another buddy of mine wants to do the same. Sam would be the guy to talk to because he knows the VQ motor better than anyone at this point in the ball game.

I plan on doing a short block too. I want to lower the compression and up the boost.

WarmAndSCSI · 08-12-2010, 08:30 PM

Do you plan to rebuild again before boosting it? 12.5:1 CR plus any significant amount of boost is not achievable without race gas. It may work with little or no detonation, but I wouldn't trust it.

I'm honestly not sure you'd want to waste that much money building an engine to N/A specs that will be completely nullified once you boost it. Piston ring end gaps will have to change, piston-to-cylinder-wall clearance will have to loosen (a bunch if you're running 2618 alloy pistons, and you'll probably want to drop the compression ratio to 10:1-ish in the end.

The gains of building a VHR for N/A power probably aren't substantial enough to justify the cost. It's amazing how efficient this engine is right out of the box - without making it undriveable on the street, I cannot imagine squeezing more than 340 WHP out of it.

Just my $0.02 based upon what I've worked on before.

NYBladeZ · 08-12-2010, 08:50 PM

Yes, I know it would require a rebuild before boosting it to drop compression. The other option would be to build an N/A 4.5L long block with the stroker kit. Its well documented that S/C's and TT's are the way to go. Personally I won't TT it until I build the motor, the dream would be to do a build like bullitt. Any guess on what a 4.5L N/A build would put out? If it indeed comes to be that a built shortblock isn't going to put out more than 350whp then I might just go with an N/A longblock.

WarmAndSCSI · 08-12-2010, 08:52 PM

I gave pretty much all the input I have to give, but I'm just curious - if you know the costs involved in doing a proper N/A build, why not just get a turn-key turbo kit from GTM and make 3x the power on stock internals?

JB-370z · 08-12-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYBladeZ

Yes, I know it would require a rebuild before boosting it to drop compression. The other option would be to build an N/A 4.5L long block with the stroker kit. Its well documented that S/C's and TT's are the way to go. Personally I won't TT it until I build the motor, the dream would be to do a build like bullitt. Any guess on what a 4.5L N/A build would put out? If it indeed comes to be that a built shortblock isn't going to put out more than 350whp then I might just go with an N/A longblock.

You would be the first dude! Why don't you make it happen and we can all find out.

I know you don't want others to say ,"Just go turbo or sc" so I am going to appologize ahead of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmAndSCSI

I gave pretty much all the input I have to give, but I'm just curious - if you know the costs involved in doing a proper N/A build, why not just get a turn-key turbo kit from GTM and make 3x the power on stock internals?

Yeah I think if it was a v8, going N/A would not be a crazy idea; but, its not a TORQUEY v8. But insted a somewhat refined v6. It only makes sence to go in the ways of boost. hahahaha plus its just much funner.....

Edit: I can't believe I just said funner

.

NYBladeZ · 08-12-2010, 09:41 PM

You guys might be right, I'm keeping all my options open it'll be a big investment so I don't want to regret it. This forum has always been the spot to get quick quality info, you guys haven't disappointed. I still think its to early to get into the SC game, GTM still hasn't been able to hold above 6psi with F.I. LTH's which I have and love. Stillen is also having issues, that's why I set my timetable around christmas...give the tuners time to figure things out. Lastly, Top Secret is working on their Z, in my opinion they would be the best (and most expensive) so it's kind of hard to see what the limit is since they haven't released their kit yet.

Looks like I'm going to have to stay patient, but keep the info coming!

NYBladeZ · 08-12-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmAndSCSI

I gave pretty much all the input I have to give, but I'm just curious - if you know the costs involved in doing a proper N/A build, why not just get a turn-key turbo kit from GTM and make 3x the power on stock internals?

I know no one has blown apart their motor yet...but I feel going that route would create an expensive ticking time bomb. F.I. is still new to the z34. I know for a fact that forged was working on a s1 shortblock but due to drama they took down their thread. Anyone know how that turned out?

theDreamer · 08-12-2010, 09:46 PM

Bladez, I think if you want to go built motor I would suggest TT kit over a SC kit.
My plan from the get go was LTH with a stage 1 for a simple power bump, but from the sounds of it you want to go a bit more.

Hopefully with JB already having a TT (stage 2) kit and wanting a built motor you could use him to your advantage.

NYBladeZ · 08-12-2010, 10:00 PM

Dreamer, we're Z veterans (not to take away with anyone else). I've been an avid follower on this forum for awhile now and the reality is that you're never going to need more than 600hp on the streets. I should probably clarify my goal, that is maximum power SAFELY. I've had a boosted 04 Mustang Gt and frankly, whether it be immaturity or being niave, I never worried about blowing up my motor. With the auto industry switching over to aluminum blocks, I no longer have the safety blanket of heavy but durable engines. That would be why I didn't get an Evo X, I didn't trust the aluminum block, if they kept the older evo's iron block...

I'm waiting on you bro, if GTM makes their SC kit work with your LTH's I'll be boosted in time to race Santa's Sleigh.

theDreamer · 08-12-2010, 10:03 PM

Well, dyno run tomorrow to see how the kit is doing and then data set off to Sam.

NYBladeZ · 08-12-2010, 10:05 PM

Did you use a local shop for the install? How much did the install run you? Did they include dyno time in the install price?

theDreamer · 08-12-2010, 10:06 PM

Baker Tuning is handling all my work, not 100% sure on pricing on things as they are handling it all currently.

08-12-2010, 06:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	I want a built shortblock but.... information is hard to come by. Of course I want to do the project in stages. I'm hoping to start the project around November/December. I've researched all over the web and I've checked out many 350z engine builds. Right now I'm looking to keep it N/A and just build the shortblock. I plan on going F.I. after law school but I love an N/A motor. So I have a few questions. Can I build the shortblock and then do the heads say 6 months later? I don't drive the car often so I wouldn't mind building the block and then the heads, I can be patient and rather have it done properly in stages. I am shooting for 12.5:1 compression, any idea what kind of #'s I'd be looking at the wheels? My euro mechanic built his e46 M3 motor. He put down 340whp and redlines to 8500, his car is a monster and he's always in the powerband. With added displacement I'm sure a built VQ37 would put out similar if not greater numbers. This is an introductory research attempt. If you have negative comments like just go S/C right now, clearly your missing the picture and didn't read the thread. Someone has to build a shortblock and I wouldn't mind being the first, any and all info appreciated. Added note, I live literally down the block from Vinny Ten, a well known builder of 350z's on the Island so I might not even need to outsource. Still before I go knocking on his door I need to be informed so let the discussion begin. __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-12-2010, 08:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
JB-370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 1,859 Drives: Stage 2 Twin Turbos Rep Power: 19	Thats funny I had a talked with Sam today about building my block, also another buddy of mine wants to do the same. Sam would be the guy to talk to because he knows the VQ37 motor better than anyone at this point in the ball game. I plan on doing a short block too. I want to lower the compression and up the boost. __________________ ll Baker Tuning ll GTM ll Powerhouse Amuse ll HKS ll Up-Rev ll iForged ll AP Racing ll Pioneer ll SPL ll Bride ll Top Secret ll OS Giken ll GTM Stage 2 Twin Turboed 370z (First in Texas, Thanks To Baker Tuning) Last edited by JB-370z; 08-12-2010 at 08:27 PM.

08-12-2010, 08:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
WarmAndSCSI A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 1,671 Drives: '08 Evo X \| '10 370Z Rep Power: 18	Do you plan to rebuild again before boosting it? 12.5:1 CR plus any significant amount of boost is not achievable without race gas. It may work with little or no detonation, but I wouldn't trust it. I'm honestly not sure you'd want to waste that much money building an engine to N/A specs that will be completely nullified once you boost it. Piston ring end gaps will have to change, piston-to-cylinder-wall clearance will have to loosen (a bunch if you're running 2618 alloy pistons, and you'll probably want to drop the compression ratio to 10:1-ish in the end. The gains of building a VHR for N/A power probably aren't substantial enough to justify the cost. It's amazing how efficient this engine is right out of the box - without making it undriveable on the street, I cannot imagine squeezing more than 340 WHP out of it. Just my $0.02 based upon what I've worked on before. __________________ '10 PW 370Z 7AT - wife's car - Project Raspberry Cheesecake '08 Evo X - built motor+trans \| BB-X @ 32 psi \| CH3OH \| self-built+tuned - ??? WHP '01 Galant V6 - built motor \| GT35R \| self-built+tuned - 550+ WHP (retired)

08-12-2010, 08:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	Yes, I know it would require a rebuild before boosting it to drop compression. The other option would be to build an N/A 4.5L long block with the stroker kit. Its well documented that S/C's and TT's are the way to go. Personally I won't TT it until I build the motor, the dream would be to do a build like bullitt. Any guess on what a 4.5L N/A build would put out? If it indeed comes to be that a built shortblock isn't going to put out more than 350whp then I might just go with an N/A longblock. __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-12-2010, 08:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
WarmAndSCSI A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 1,671 Drives: '08 Evo X \| '10 370Z Rep Power: 18	I gave pretty much all the input I have to give, but I'm just curious - if you know the costs involved in doing a proper N/A build, why not just get a turn-key turbo kit from GTM and make 3x the power on stock internals? __________________ '10 PW 370Z 7AT - wife's car - Project Raspberry Cheesecake '08 Evo X - built motor+trans \| BB-X @ 32 psi \| CH3OH \| self-built+tuned - ??? WHP '01 Galant V6 - built motor \| GT35R \| self-built+tuned - 550+ WHP (retired)

08-12-2010, 07:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jeffblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Age: 36 Posts: 9,192 Drives: Z32TT & 335xi Coupe Rep Power: 37	subscribed

08-12-2010, 09:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	You guys might be right, I'm keeping all my options open it'll be a big investment so I don't want to regret it. This forum has always been the spot to get quick quality info, you guys haven't disappointed. I still think its to early to get into the SC game, GTM still hasn't been able to hold above 6psi with F.I. LTH's which I have and love. Stillen is also having issues, that's why I set my timetable around christmas...give the tuners time to figure things out. Lastly, Top Secret is working on their Z, in my opinion they would be the best (and most expensive) so it's kind of hard to see what the limit is since they haven't released their kit yet. Looks like I'm going to have to stay patient, but keep the info coming! __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-12-2010, 09:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Bladez, I think if you want to go built motor I would suggest TT kit over a SC kit. My plan from the get go was LTH with a stage 1 for a simple power bump, but from the sounds of it you want to go a bit more. Hopefully with JB already having a TT (stage 2) kit and wanting a built motor you could use him to your advantage. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

08-12-2010, 10:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	Dreamer, we're Z veterans (not to take away with anyone else). I've been an avid follower on this forum for awhile now and the reality is that you're never going to need more than 600hp on the streets. I should probably clarify my goal, that is maximum power SAFELY. I've had a boosted 04 Mustang Gt and frankly, whether it be immaturity or being niave, I never worried about blowing up my motor. With the auto industry switching over to aluminum blocks, I no longer have the safety blanket of heavy but durable engines. That would be why I didn't get an Evo X, I didn't trust the aluminum block, if they kept the older evo's iron block... I'm waiting on you bro, if GTM makes their SC kit work with your LTH's I'll be boosted in time to race Santa's Sleigh. __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-12-2010, 10:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Well, dyno run tomorrow to see how the kit is doing and then data set off to Sam. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

08-12-2010, 10:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	Did you use a local shop for the install? How much did the install run you? Did they include dyno time in the install price? __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-12-2010, 10:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	Baker Tuning is handling all my work, not 100% sure on pricing on things as they are handling it all currently. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

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