Can you get to 400 without turbo or super-charger

MightyBobo

I know a good UD pulley on my LS1 was worth 6 or 7 HP, too. All depends on the car you're throwing it on, of course. But, I certainly would NEVER expect more than that on ANY car.

Nismo 370z

Exactly. I dont get why one person belives that you can get 90whp from a simple intake/full exhaust + tune on a mustang dyno. I have all the bolt ons on my 350 and i wanted to stay NA so i picked up everything that gave me more area under the curve rather than focusing on peak hp. The UD pulleys gave me an extra 7whp but made throttle response more crisp. Anyways King David needs to know that this is not a 4g63 or a 2jz or a LS motor where simple mods give big gains. The VQ no matter which form is almost fully tuned from the factory. Bolt ons usually will add some hp but mostly it serves as a sound and cosmetic upgrade.

RCZ

An underdriven pulley isn't the same as a lightened pulley. UD Pulleys are different sizes than the stock ones and as used to reduce hp-stealing parasitic resistance from the system. The problem with that is that there are some associated issues with under driving accessories like the AC and the alternator and may cause them to not perform the way they are supposed to. Most of the pulley derived power gains aren't from underdriving though...they are from weight savings. Underdriven pulleys seem to perform better than lightened ones because they too tend to be a lot lighter than stock so they have both added benefits.

welderz

The sad part is this is just the beginning for this site. There's going to be more people like KingDavid on this site spouting off bullsh!t numbers and trying to argue with us. They come from hondas and think they know everything about motors and think you can get 70 hp from headers. Over on my350z they get flamed and never come back and judging from him not replying I hope he doesn't come back either. In about a 4 years when you can buy a used 370 for a reasonable price they will be coming on and saying I have $3,000 I want to get a twin turbo kit and make 750 hp and have it as a daily driver.

KingDavid

Lol @ coming from Hondas and getting flamed.

Get serious. I just left the thread alone. I believe I said "if it true, then it's true, if not, oh well." I couldn't really care less or more. One thing that stuck out is that if it really did make that much more power off a tuned reflash is that MORE people would have done it to begin with. I never said I knew everything about motors or anything like that. I'm starting to believe you have a problem with comprehension if it isn't illiteracy alone.

KingDavid

Ehhh, you're right, if it were true a lot more would have happened. Not to mention that this was supposedly in December.

KingDavid

What was I smoking...Lol.

AK370Z

Please keep the discussions going "without" any attacks or name calling. Everyone has an opinion and they can express it since it's a public forum. YOU also have the right to disagree with that opinion. Just explain why you disagree with it in a civilized manner with your constructive post WITHOUT any flaming . I am sure they will appreciate your post and knowledge. Thanks.

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shumby

^^^^ what he said or there will be more kittens

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Originally Posted by SAM@GTM
Engine detonation is not normal and it should never never happen, and whoever told that need to do something else for living .
Sam

JoeyD

You two (RCZ and Bobo) are making the mistake. You are comparing the VQ37 to the VQ35 and still assuming that they are similar enough to draw conclusions. THEY AREN'T. The whole basis of my argument is that the aren't. And you can spout off all you want about 4gs, and 2JZs and LSwhatevers I don't care. Do any of those motors have VVEL? Nope!

The question of how much power can be made is a little flawed as well. A significant portion of the power to be made comes from freeing up restrictions that Nissan built in (purposefully of incidentally). I'm sure in it's final years the G37/370Z will probably be advertised with 350HP or more. Nissan of course engineered in room to grow with 3.7L. In these early stages we figure out where the room is and milk it for all it's worth. For all we know this motor could be capable of 425HP NA and it's been down-rated to 332 for the whole "room to grow" philosophy. We just don't know.

You can also talk about mustang dyno vs others but that's a stupid way to claim that the mods didn't make power.

At 332 Crank Horsepower:
270RWHP DynoJet = 19% Drivetrain Loss
Est. 250RWHP Mustang = 25% Drivetrain Loss

Did the Crank HP change? I doubt it, since the engine must be within 5% of the marketed HP value. So lets add some mods...

We'll just use an arbitrary number like 400 Crank Hp (about where I estimate the mods I listed would put the 3.7L)

Dynojet 19% Loss = 324RWHP
Mustang 25% Loss = 300RWHP

So the mustang reads less, it doesn't change the power output one bit. Admittedly these numbers are abstract but the point is valid regardless of the numbers you plug in.

The original question was can you make 400HP NA? If you are looking for RWHP probably not (not to say it couldn't be done, it's just a hard claim to defend). If you are willing to accept that 324RWHP on a given dyno = 400 Crank HP then yeah you can probably get there with bolt ons and most importantly tunning (especially VVEL tunning).

P.S. It wasn't that you "called me out" that I have a problem with. I can listen to alternative opinions without taking it personally. That's called being objective (you should try it sometime). It was, however, the rude, diminutive, abrasive, and disrespectful manner in which you called me out that I guarantee wouldn't happen twice if you were looking me in the eye (although, I highly doubt it would even happen once).

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When was the last time you did 230MPH in something with 4 seats?

welderz

I apologize for my earlier hateful post. I was out of line and I shouldn't have said that. What I mean by the dyno not being correct is that mustang dynos allow for correction factors and that can lead to inflated horsepower numbers. Dynojets are the standard for comparing hp because they do not allow for a correction factor. That leads me to doubt the 90hp gain on the mustang dyno when no one else has gotten gains close to those numbers. The VQ37VHR already produces almost 90hp per liter. That's a higher output than most motors. That leaves not as much horsepower to be gained N/A. Without VVEL tuning the VQ37VHR there is probably only going to be 40hp to 50hp gains. We all know that the stock exhaust on the 370z is very restrictive and there's a lot of horsepower that can be gained with boltons. This differentiates it from other VQ's but without the advantage of VVEL it's still the same engine layout as the 350z there's not much difference. I just don't think anywhere near 90 horsepower without extensive modification. No one knows how much horsepower can be made once VVEL is cracked. That's the biggest if and there's no point arguing about it because no one knows. I'm guessing 320rwhp with boltons without vvel tuning and 340rwhp with VVEL tuning. Those are my predictions on a dynojet starting at 280rwhp.

In the end final horsepower numbers mean nothing it's the horsepower over stock. Every dyno is different and some read higher than others and some are more accurate. Correction factors can cause a lot of arguements and I don't want to debate them I've already sated my point of view.

RCZ

No, they don't have VVEL...they have turbos and a lot more displacement. VVEL doesn't stand for "magical power" either.



No one said it makes a difference. The truth lies in the % gain over stock, not in the numbers. You are arguing for a 30-35% gain that is realized through "freeing up" 75RWHP (Down from your 90RWHP at least) from restrictive exhaust and intake systems.

A claim you were defending before. Lets stop talking about theory, use my experience. I dynoed in at 256WHP on a Mustang. That is a 23% loss from 332BHP. In order to have 400BHP, I would have to have 308WHP. That is 52RWHP more than I started with. As a percentage that is a 20.3% power increase from stock. Now, while that is MUCH more decent than the claim you made before, which was 35% increase, it is still pushing the boundaries of what is possible IMO. I think that you are closer to reality now though that you cut your expectations by almost half...I mean, I don't want to say I told you so, but...I kinda told you so. I think with every bolt on and tuning, it is possible to pick up around 45WHP... thats not quite 400BHP, but it is close...

I know this comment inst so much for me, however, I have no problems with anyone until they start questioning how much I know or don't know without much tact. If you want to argue a point, argue away, but be prepared and knowledgeable enough to cover all the angles. When you have a higher degree of certainty and proof to back it all up, arguments like this one can't turn into pissing contests. They go to hell in a hand basket when the "my boy did this and that's" start flying.

jyhighsky

Everyone has a great POV on this topic. But going N/A and trying to obtain 400 HP to the crank. I will doubt it. I don't want to go and say it's impossible for I have no proof of whether it is or not. A car that puts out 332HP and your trying to go for a good 400HP, that's only a 68 HP increase. But now, when your on a dyno, let's say you have 282.2 HP to the wheels, that's exactly -15% loss. Your trying to gain, 400 RWHP? That is another 117.8 RWHP. Practically adding a RSX base model engine without, an engine. If your talking about CRANK, you would need to hit 340 RWHP, [going with the -15%]. That still means that you need to gain 57.8 RWHP. 57.8 RWHP doesn't seem like much of a gain. But believe me when I say this, an INTAKE system will NOT give you any RWHP gain. In fact, the stock intake system will give you the best gains. Headers, Full Exhaust, and tweaking with the compression ratios [which i believe will only allow you to run gears quicker or longer], and other bolt on parts. It's hard to say you will reach that high.

BUT here's the thing. Going TT is a beautiful thing for these Z's. First of all, dealing with the compression ratio's with these cars. They have plenty of space for the cams to intake those beautiful cold air to push it higher.

BTW, this is my opinion. If you disagree or hate me, fine. Cause my mom still loves me.. hahahahaha :P

RCZ

Stillen supercharger for me

JoeyD

I'm definitely interested to see what Stillen comes up with!

I think you've still missed that my original post was regarding BHP not RWHP and I've always said 400BHP was attainable. My RWHP may of been quite off, but that was from a poor estimation of drive train loss. Anyway I think the end result is the same. We agree that 400 BHP should be attainable without forced induction. Also, let me remind everyone that this thread was asked as a complete hypothetical, it just simply hasn't been tested yet. All we can offer are estimations and in my estimate 400BHP is a reasonable goal.

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When was the last time you did 230MPH in something with 4 seats?