JWT clutch is just too damn good... unfortunately...

KillerBee370 · 02-23-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

no offense dude and i can't say much for or against it but if you are blaming a clutch pedal for Screwing you up you have some rethinking to do there, i have a rebuilt left leg and 0 problems with the jwt clutch. you do more damages to your knee climbing a flight of stairs than pushing your clutch in a 50 times. you may have had preexisting muscle, cartilage, or tendon damage and the failure happened to coincide with your clutch change. Or if you are overweight/really tall, your joints can have considerably more stress put on them than someone who is 5.10 180lbs. Thats like a body builder suing his gym cuz his knee gave out in a squat.

Agreed. There can be many different factors that can irritate an existing or persistent problem. It's like slow said above, you probably did more damage walking up stairs but you wouldn't sue the establishment that housed the stairwell.

With that said, given your existing condition, it probably makes sense to remedy that with a lighter clutch or in your case, maybe the 7AT.

1slow370 · 02-24-2011, 03:22 AM

nah man manual for LIFE, if my knee ever goes doing this i'll rig up a stick to push the clutch with a stub lol

KillerBee370 · 02-24-2011, 08:04 AM

Now that's the spirit! Get it while you can because soon enough it will be all auto's and paddle shifters FTL

1slow370 · 03-01-2011, 04:49 AM

i have a minor update on my csc, i'm still halfway done, havent gotten anywhere after that thanks to many problems in my life/work schedule, so i'm saying F the whole R/d thing and looking into adapting the most awesome csc to ever grace a mid-am car into our setup, gotta make a few calls do, just a bit of machining and call it done and never worry about it again. the thing i'm worried about yet with the zspeed one is it appears to still have the same flimsy style piston in it whereas the one i'm looking at can actually be used to jack up a car wheel if you wanted to. It also promises less thrust bearing stress, and weighs less than .75 of a pound. the company also sells a full race clutch and flywheel set rated for over 500ftlbs. single disc and more for the multidisc(up to 4) that weighs under 20lbs for the whole flywheel, ringgear, clutch, and csc.

KillerBee370 · 03-01-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

i have a minor update on my csc, i'm still halfway done, havent gotten anywhere after that thanks to many problems in my life/work schedule, so i'm saying F the whole R/d thing and looking into adapting the most awesome csc to ever grace a mid-am car into our setup, gotta make a few calls do, just a bit of machining and call it done and never worry about it again. the thing i'm worried about yet with the zspeed one is it appears to still have the same flimsy style piston in it whereas the one i'm looking at can actually be used to jack up a car wheel if you wanted to. It also promises less thrust bearing stress, and weighs less than .75 of a pound. the company also sells a full race clutch and flywheel set rated for over 500ftlbs. single disc and more for the multidisc(up to 4) that weighs under 20lbs for the whole flywheel, ringgear, clutch, and csc.

Standing by sir.

Spddracer · 03-06-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

i have a minor update on my csc, i'm still halfway done, havent gotten anywhere after that thanks to many problems in my life/work schedule, so i'm saying F the whole R/d thing and looking into adapting the most awesome csc to ever grace a mid-am car into our setup, gotta make a few calls do, just a bit of machining and call it done and never worry about it again. the thing i'm worried about yet with the zspeed one is it appears to still have the same flimsy style piston in it whereas the one i'm looking at can actually be used to jack up a car wheel if you wanted to. It also promises less thrust bearing stress, and weighs less than .75 of a pound. the company also sells a full race clutch and flywheel set rated for over 500ftlbs. single disc and more for the multidisc(up to 4) that weighs under 20lbs for the whole flywheel, ringgear, clutch, and csc.

Thrust bearing stress comes from the clutch itself, not the slave. The csc itself has absolutely nothing to do with it.

These is nothing flimsy about the ZSpeed slave and has been in many cars for over a year now, It has been in a drift car for the entire life of a OS giken twin plate that does nothing but drift and is now on its second rebuild of that twin plate and still going strong.

1slow370 · 03-06-2011, 10:49 PM

actually the design of the bearing contact on the front of the slave cylinder can actually effect the force applied to the thrust bearing as well. due to lever shaped nature of pressure plate fingers the contact patch actually changes in size throughout the stroke of clutch engagement and different designs of bearing face and finger angle can cause side loads imparted to the clutch as you now need to actuate both the clutch itself and over come the these forces as well. the clutch imparts ZERO force on the thrust bearing, all of the axial pressure applied come from the throwout bearing overcoming friction and the spring force of the clutch in order to actuate it. Zspeed has done a good job with there upgraded (what looks to still be a valeo unit) csc as i'm sure it has no more problem with the o-ring in the base as the metal base probably doesn't distort as much as the plastic one did if there even is an o-ring anymore. But it seems to use the same bearing lock ring and plastic piston that the factory unit uses.

The company i am looking at makes multi-plate clutches, fly wheels, and hydraulic throwout bearings for many many full on drag cars, Midwest america series cars, formula 100 cars, and several other venues of professional racing, the parts are made entirely in the USA, and they don't carry the crazy upmarket prices you find on japanese parts. the factory CSC was like $260 from nissan, the one i'm looking at is full race forged and cnc machined aircraft grade aluminum and is proven to be damn near indestructible.

NewYorkJon34 · 03-07-2011, 02:21 AM

Any updates on the ultimate clutch set-up, and where to buy?

Spddracer · 03-07-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

actually the design of the bearing contact on the front of the slave cylinder can actually effect the force applied to the thrust bearing as well. due to lever shaped nature of pressure plate fingers the contact patch actually changes in size throughout the stroke of clutch engagement and different designs of bearing face and finger angle can cause side loads imparted to the clutch as you now need to actuate both the clutch itself and over come the these forces as well. the clutch imparts ZERO force on the thrust bearing, all of the axial pressure applied come from the throwout bearing overcoming friction and the spring force of the clutch in order to actuate it. Zspeed has done a good job with there upgraded (what looks to still be a valeo unit) csc as i'm sure it has no more problem with the o-ring in the base as the metal base probably doesn't distort as much as the plastic one did if there even is an o-ring anymore. But it seems to use the same bearing lock ring and plastic piston that the factory unit uses.

The company i am looking at makes multi-plate clutches, fly wheels, and hydraulic throwout bearings for many many full on drag cars, Midwest america series cars, formula 100 cars, and several other venues of professional racing, the parts are made entirely in the USA, and they don't carry the crazy upmarket prices you find on japanese parts. the factory CSC was like $260 from nissan, the one i'm looking at is full race forged and cnc machined aircraft grade aluminum and is proven to be damn near indestructible.

Ram, Tilton or MCloed?

Too make this simple, If you move the contact area of the bearing face in, of course the lever ratio would be lighter. The 370 or 350 isn't going to have thrust bearing issues regardless with the loads it is seeing with the heaviest of clutches made for them at this point. The bearing the ZSpeed slave uses is self centering, Probably what you think is a retainer, This means the bearing will center itself to reduce/eliminate any side loads.

You will change load applied very little by moving the finger contact area in, You can only go in so far and at this point it is as far in as in can safely be with a single disk clutch. At the most, a 1/4" in is all you can go.

You mention how the angle changes on the diaphragm spring during release, Do you realize how far the fingers actually move on a clutch to release it fully?
Have you set-up the stock system to find out how far it moves with a full pedal stroke? Do you know how much "Too Far" is so you don't damage the pressure plates?

There are no plastic parts in the ZSpeed slave, The bearing lock ring doesn't do anything once the slave is installed, All the bearing does is push on the bearing sleeve which on the Zspeed slave is steel, Not plastic.

ZSpeed now has a slave kit for the OS Giken clutches which in our opinion are the best multi plate clutches available. This set up already moves the finger contact area in as far as possible too offer a lighter pedal feel.

1slow370 · 03-07-2011, 03:00 PM

so you can confirm that the piston which is in the dead center of the csc and has a rubber seal at the back of it is made out of metal? there is an aluminium base that has a steel sleeve in it, the piston fits in this steel sleeve and is what the hydraulic fluid actually pushes on. In most Valeo CSC's the piston is plastic, then on top of the piston they mount the bearing, a tiny little diaphram spring, and the bearing retainer which has like 8 little fingers that snap through slots on the piston and hold the bearing onto the piston. then the zspeed csc gets glued to the bearing. I've actually posted photo's of the stock assembly dismantled i think they are in this thread somewhere.

Edit: also it's none of the companies you listed, i checked with them but all their hydraulic throwout bearings were way to tall. If they agree to make the parts for us and at a reasonable price i will throw it out there.

As for the distances not off the top of my head i know the factory clutch has just under a half inch of throw, and the setup height of the factory csc is right around 1.8 inch from tranny to pressure plate. I have extra clutch and flywheels sets at my disposal to work from i haven't gotten around to measuring all of them yet.

NewYorkJon34 · 03-07-2011, 03:31 PM

So what's the best complete clutch + proper csc to buy? I plan on supercharging (450hp-500hp)

BOLIO 671 · 03-07-2011, 11:43 PM

I recently installed the ZSpeed HD Slave and Southbend DXD Clutch/Flywheel combo...

I can tell you and can confirm that there is not one plastic piece in the Zspeed HD Slave...Even my friend that helped me do the install who works for Nissan as a Tech was amazed at the craftsmanship of the product...especially in comparison the stock slave which is a peice of crap...

Here are some pics I took of the slave and clutch kit when it was installed...

1slow370 · 03-08-2011, 05:23 AM

see i would wan't someone to dismantle the csc so i could verify its sturdiness with my on two eyes. When my **** breaks i skip the whole "upgraded" phase and shoot for the "this mother fer's never gonna break" level.

Spddracer · 03-08-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

so you can confirm that the piston which is in the dead center of the csc and has a rubber seal at the back of it is made out of metal? there is an aluminium base that has a steel sleeve in it, the piston fits in this steel sleeve and is what the hydraulic fluid actually pushes on. In most Valeo CSC's the piston is plastic, then on top of the piston they mount the bearing, a tiny little diaphram spring, and the bearing retainer which has like 8 little fingers that snap through slots on the piston and hold the bearing onto the piston. then the zspeed csc gets glued to the bearing. I've actually posted photo's of the stock assembly dismantled i think they are in this thread somewhere.

Edit: also it's none of the companies you listed, i checked with them but all their hydraulic throwout bearings were way to tall. If they agree to make the parts for us and at a reasonable price i will throw it out there.

As for the distances not off the top of my head i know the factory clutch has just under a half inch of throw, and the setup height of the factory csc is right around 1.8 inch from tranny to pressure plate. I have extra clutch and flywheels sets at my disposal to work from i haven't gotten around to measuring all of them yet.

Valeo is who makes the stock slave, Zspeed's is not made by Valeo.

NO plastic.

1slow370 · 03-09-2011, 04:24 AM

valeo makes hundreds of csc's the one in our cars is at the very bottom of there cost line, thats why it's crummy and plastic. They make metal ones, most with the interal plastic piston(which you can't actually see unless you take the mofo all they way apart)and you know how i know the zspeed one is still a valeo? the green boot. all the non-oem valeo csc's have that exact boot on them. The bearing on the front is also a sure giveway as valeo has those custom ordered for them(obviously i'm not talking about the sleeve on the face).

I know my CSC's/HTB's and being that it is a valeo it probably still has their standard .050 fluid entry port on the inside of the hydraulic cylinder liner.

02-24-2011, 03:22 AM	#92 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	nah man manual for LIFE, if my knee ever goes doing this i'll rig up a stick to push the clutch with a stub lol __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

03-01-2011, 04:49 AM	#94 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	i have a minor update on my csc, i'm still halfway done, havent gotten anywhere after that thanks to many problems in my life/work schedule, so i'm saying F the whole R/d thing and looking into adapting the most awesome csc to ever grace a mid-am car into our setup, gotta make a few calls do, just a bit of machining and call it done and never worry about it again. the thing i'm worried about yet with the zspeed one is it appears to still have the same flimsy style piston in it whereas the one i'm looking at can actually be used to jack up a car wheel if you wanted to. It also promises less thrust bearing stress, and weighs less than .75 of a pound. the company also sells a full race clutch and flywheel set rated for over 500ftlbs. single disc and more for the multidisc(up to 4) that weighs under 20lbs for the whole flywheel, ringgear, clutch, and csc. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

03-06-2011, 10:49 PM	#97 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	actually the design of the bearing contact on the front of the slave cylinder can actually effect the force applied to the thrust bearing as well. due to lever shaped nature of pressure plate fingers the contact patch actually changes in size throughout the stroke of clutch engagement and different designs of bearing face and finger angle can cause side loads imparted to the clutch as you now need to actuate both the clutch itself and over come the these forces as well. the clutch imparts ZERO force on the thrust bearing, all of the axial pressure applied come from the throwout bearing overcoming friction and the spring force of the clutch in order to actuate it. Zspeed has done a good job with there upgraded (what looks to still be a valeo unit) csc as i'm sure it has no more problem with the o-ring in the base as the metal base probably doesn't distort as much as the plastic one did if there even is an o-ring anymore. But it seems to use the same bearing lock ring and plastic piston that the factory unit uses. The company i am looking at makes multi-plate clutches, fly wheels, and hydraulic throwout bearings for many many full on drag cars, Midwest america series cars, formula 100 cars, and several other venues of professional racing, the parts are made entirely in the USA, and they don't carry the crazy upmarket prices you find on japanese parts. the factory CSC was like $260 from nissan, the one i'm looking at is full race forged and cnc machined aircraft grade aluminum and is proven to be damn near indestructible. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

03-07-2011, 03:00 PM	#100 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	so you can confirm that the piston which is in the dead center of the csc and has a rubber seal at the back of it is made out of metal? there is an aluminium base that has a steel sleeve in it, the piston fits in this steel sleeve and is what the hydraulic fluid actually pushes on. In most Valeo CSC's the piston is plastic, then on top of the piston they mount the bearing, a tiny little diaphram spring, and the bearing retainer which has like 8 little fingers that snap through slots on the piston and hold the bearing onto the piston. then the zspeed csc gets glued to the bearing. I've actually posted photo's of the stock assembly dismantled i think they are in this thread somewhere. Edit: also it's none of the companies you listed, i checked with them but all their hydraulic throwout bearings were way to tall. If they agree to make the parts for us and at a reasonable price i will throw it out there. As for the distances not off the top of my head i know the factory clutch has just under a half inch of throw, and the setup height of the factory csc is right around 1.8 inch from tranny to pressure plate. I have extra clutch and flywheels sets at my disposal to work from i haven't gotten around to measuring all of them yet. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 03-07-2011 at 03:17 PM.

03-07-2011, 11:43 PM	#102 (permalink)
BOLIO 671 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: GUAHAN Posts: 1,198 Drives: To & From then Back Rep Power: 3399	ZSpeed Slave I recently installed the ZSpeed HD Slave and Southbend DXD Clutch/Flywheel combo... I can tell you and can confirm that there is not one plastic piece in the Zspeed HD Slave...Even my friend that helped me do the install who works for Nissan as a Tech was amazed at the craftsmanship of the product...especially in comparison the stock slave which is a peice of crap... Here are some pics I took of the slave and clutch kit when it was installed... __________________ 2013 Nismo Z34 / FI TT #091 / IG: @lilzilla_z34

02-24-2011, 08:04 AM	#93 (permalink)
KillerBee370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal baby! Age: 51 Posts: 5,964 Drives: with passion Rep Power: 321	Now that's the spirit! Get it while you can because soon enough it will be all auto's and paddle shifters FTL

03-07-2011, 02:21 AM	#98 (permalink)
NewYorkJon34 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 3,041 Drives: 09 Fairlady Z Rep Power: 1065	Any updates on the ultimate clutch set-up, and where to buy?

03-07-2011, 03:31 PM	#101 (permalink)
NewYorkJon34 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 3,041 Drives: 09 Fairlady Z Rep Power: 1065	So what's the best complete clutch + proper csc to buy? I plan on supercharging (450hp-500hp)

03-08-2011, 05:23 AM	#103 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	see i would wan't someone to dismantle the csc so i could verify its sturdiness with my on two eyes. When my ** breaks i skip the whole "upgraded" phase and shoot for the "this mother fer's never gonna break" level. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST** Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 03-08-2011 at 05:23 AM. Reason: censoring so i don'ts gets in trouble

03-09-2011, 04:24 AM	#105 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	valeo makes hundreds of csc's the one in our cars is at the very bottom of there cost line, thats why it's crummy and plastic. They make metal ones, most with the interal plastic piston(which you can't actually see unless you take the mofo all they way apart)and you know how i know the zspeed one is still a valeo? the green boot. all the non-oem valeo csc's have that exact boot on them. The bearing on the front is also a sure giveway as valeo has those custom ordered for them(obviously i'm not talking about the sleeve on the face). I know my CSC's/HTB's and being that it is a valeo it probably still has their standard .050 fluid entry port on the inside of the hydraulic cylinder liner. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
very loud clutch chatter when in first gear and i depress the clutch...	TheSnakeJake	Engine & Drivetrain	30	04-25-2010 01:07 AM
Damn that paint.	Vegitto-kun	Exterior & Interior	43	04-21-2010 08:57 AM
Damn...........	vash_241987	The Lounge (Off Topic)	8	02-13-2010 01:10 AM
Damn fatties!	MightyBobo	The Lounge (Off Topic)	3	01-04-2010 11:19 PM
Damn Dealers	SlikNik	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	5	05-29-2009 09:48 PM