[OFFICIAL] Manual v. Automatic Thread

[1slow370]

Originally Posted by b15

The flappy paddle gearbox in my Maxima is great! Shifts so fast and smooth, just like the Z

OMFG Fail just fail get your one speed bitchbox outta here. You know why there is no performance aftermarket for the new maxima? Cuz it's a cvt and it can hardly hold the stock power and there is no way to beef it up. CVT's all need to die in a fire they are even worse than a regular automatic and are only good for point a to point b boredom. If they ever make a car that drives itself it will have a cvt.

Edit: unless sarcasm in which case consider the above an elaboration.

[TerribleONE]

Originally Posted by b15

Every single 7AT vs manual references this. #2 argument is that manuals are archaic. Last I checked, so are TC automatics. In the old days, making a slushbox shift fast required aftermarket mods, so it is good to see manufacturers finally doing this from the factory. It's still not a direct connection like a manual or semi-automatic. Yes I know the TC locks up...

And for FPenvy....I still think the 7AT is a good trans

I never said its a BAD trans, just don't get a head of yourself saying youd essentially rather have the 7AT over a DTC because its soo reliable and shifts almost as fast as a DTC. There is NO comparison. Iv driven the 7AT as well as the DCT in the GTR, 458, and the Porsche PDK and they all make the 7AT feel like just any other auto.

[b15]

Originally Posted by 1slow370

OMFG Fail just fail get your one speed bitchbox outta here. You know why there is no performance aftermarket for the new maxima? Cuz it's a cvt and it can hardly hold the stock power and there is no way to beef it up. CVT's all need to die in a fire they are even worse than a regular automatic and are only good for point a to point b boredom. If they ever make a car that drives itself it will have a cvt.

Edit: unless sarcasm in which case consider the above an elaboration.

It was sarcasm....and a rental....

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by b15

Every single 7AT vs manual references this. #2 argument is that manuals are archaic. Last I checked, so are TC automatics. In the old days, making a slushbox shift fast required aftermarket mods, so it is good to see manufacturers finally doing this from the factory. It's still not a direct connection like a manual or semi-automatic. Yes I know the TC locks up...

And for FPenvy....I still think the 7AT is a good trans

FWIW, I'm not making a case, per se, for old vs. new tech, but rather for performance metrics.

If a TC impelled AT performs as well as a standard MT (in the hands of a competent driver) in terms of speed, precision, etc, then that seems like a reasonable lower bound.

If it outperforms a MT, then we have no reason to even debate it, other than personal preference.

My point is that there is a weird and somewhat arbitrary view of "manual-ness" that doesn't always map onto the actual mechanisms involved or the performance of those mechanisms.

Performance does seem to matter in these evaluations, but not as much as perceived manual-ness. That makes no sense to me.

As someone else on here posted, if a TC impelled AT performs as well and as reliably as a more complex automated dual or single clutch "manual" transmission, why opt for the more complex system?

However, my guess is that folks would still prefer the "automated manual" over the TC impelled automatic simply because of perceived manual-ness, even though for the end user the inputs, qualia, and results would be the same.

That's kind of silly.

A thought experiment: If the GT-R switched to a better performing TC based trans, that even lowered the cost to the consumer. would people hate it on principal? If so, why?

[SouthArk370Z]

Seems to me that, from a strictly performance standpoint, the best transmission is the one that will get you through the quarter or around the track the fastest. Doesn't matter what's on the inside or what it's called.

For a DD, Jordo! sums it up very well: "personal preference." I've had several manual transmissions over the years and thoroughly enjoyed driving them. I still prefer an auto in my DD.
When it comes to automatic transmissions, the 370Z has the best I've driven (but my experience is limited). Manual mode is fun and I have no doubts that it can shift faster than I can shift a manual.

YMMV

[DavidZ370]

Originally Posted by TerribleONE

I never said its a BAD trans, just don't get a head of yourself saying youd essentially rather have the 7AT over a DTC because its soo reliable and shifts almost as fast as a DTC. There is NO comparison. Iv driven the 7AT as well as the DCT in the GTR, 458, and the Porsche PDK and they all make the 7AT feel like just any other auto.

Compared to the 911 pdk I drove, I feel the Z does have a great gearbox, of course its no PDK but the difference is damn minimal.

[Jordo!]

I think it just irks me that the AT vs MT debate is always hamstrung by the view that anything which deviates in design from a (more or less) three pedal MT is not only lesser but deserving of contempt and scorn. It becomes a debate over "right" vs "wrong" and then totally spirals out of control.

It's a machine, not the Code of Hammurabi.

[1slow370]

it also comes down to one can handle modifications the other can't

[DavidZ370]

Look I have the AT, its great don't get me wrong but sometimes I wish I had an MT. And as you can see it will be vice versa when sometimes I would want an AT. We cant things that we don't have and once we do its not the same so everyone wins / thread

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by 1slow370

it also comes down to one can handle modifications the other can't

Regarding FI, that is a fair criticism. I have no problem with negative reviews that are data driven. The failure rate is relatively high for the stock 7AT under boost.

That said, I have no idea how many folks with boost also get a beefier clutch at the same time...

EDIT:
And, to be clear, I also have no problems with criticisms based solely on personal preference -- its the brow beating or attacking of others in order to help them make the "right" choice that rankles me. Why shame people into adopting someone else's views?

See further, the recent thread by somebody who doesn't want to "embarrass" himself by purchasing a 7AT... that's kind of a shitty and unnecessary way to feel about a major purchase like a car, and it speaks volumes on this issue.

[hey32g]

Originally Posted by b15

The flappy paddle gearbox in my Maxima is great! Shifts so fast and smooth, just like the Z

No, it does not. I had a 2010 Maxima SV with the paddles, it's nothing like the way the Z shifts. Sorry, but I just had to chime in and disagree before you lead some poor lad astray.

[b15]

Originally Posted by hey32g

No, it does not. I had a 2010 Maxima SV with the paddles, it's nothing like the way the Z shifts. Sorry, but I just had to chime in and disagree before you lead some poor lad astray.

See above....

[HEK]

I think most people will dissagree that the Z should only come with a standard transmission. I like 6 speeds and didn't get a chance to drive an auto but I wonder those who chose an auto over a stick and why. I guess if your stuck in traffic most ot your commute it wouild make sense, just asking since I did a search and came empty.

[theDreamer]

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