[OFFICIAL] Manual v. Automatic Thread

[b15]

Originally Posted by TerribleONE

You guys comparing the Zs AT to the Aventador and other single clutch transmissions crack me up. Also, I am willing to bet that anyone saying that the 7AT shifts almost as fast as a GTR or 458 has never driven a real DTC.

Every single 7AT vs manual references this. #2 argument is that manuals are archaic. Last I checked, so are TC automatics. In the old days, making a slushbox shift fast required aftermarket mods, so it is good to see manufacturers finally doing this from the factory. It's still not a direct connection like a manual or semi-automatic. Yes I know the TC locks up...

And for FPenvy....I still think the 7AT is a good trans

[TerribleONE]

Originally Posted by b15

Every single 7AT vs manual references this. #2 argument is that manuals are archaic. Last I checked, so are TC automatics. In the old days, making a slushbox shift fast required aftermarket mods, so it is good to see manufacturers finally doing this from the factory. It's still not a direct connection like a manual or semi-automatic. Yes I know the TC locks up...

And for FPenvy....I still think the 7AT is a good trans

I never said its a BAD trans, just don't get a head of yourself saying youd essentially rather have the 7AT over a DTC because its soo reliable and shifts almost as fast as a DTC. There is NO comparison. Iv driven the 7AT as well as the DCT in the GTR, 458, and the Porsche PDK and they all make the 7AT feel like just any other auto.

[DavidZ370]

Originally Posted by TerribleONE

I never said its a BAD trans, just don't get a head of yourself saying youd essentially rather have the 7AT over a DTC because its soo reliable and shifts almost as fast as a DTC. There is NO comparison. Iv driven the 7AT as well as the DCT in the GTR, 458, and the Porsche PDK and they all make the 7AT feel like just any other auto.

Compared to the 911 pdk I drove, I feel the Z does have a great gearbox, of course its no PDK but the difference is damn minimal.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by b15

Every single 7AT vs manual references this. #2 argument is that manuals are archaic. Last I checked, so are TC automatics. In the old days, making a slushbox shift fast required aftermarket mods, so it is good to see manufacturers finally doing this from the factory. It's still not a direct connection like a manual or semi-automatic. Yes I know the TC locks up...

And for FPenvy....I still think the 7AT is a good trans

FWIW, I'm not making a case, per se, for old vs. new tech, but rather for performance metrics.

If a TC impelled AT performs as well as a standard MT (in the hands of a competent driver) in terms of speed, precision, etc, then that seems like a reasonable lower bound.

If it outperforms a MT, then we have no reason to even debate it, other than personal preference.

My point is that there is a weird and somewhat arbitrary view of "manual-ness" that doesn't always map onto the actual mechanisms involved or the performance of those mechanisms.

Performance does seem to matter in these evaluations, but not as much as perceived manual-ness. That makes no sense to me.

As someone else on here posted, if a TC impelled AT performs as well and as reliably as a more complex automated dual or single clutch "manual" transmission, why opt for the more complex system?

However, my guess is that folks would still prefer the "automated manual" over the TC impelled automatic simply because of perceived manual-ness, even though for the end user the inputs, qualia, and results would be the same.

That's kind of silly.

A thought experiment: If the GT-R switched to a better performing TC based trans, that even lowered the cost to the consumer. would people hate it on principal? If so, why?