[OFFICIAL] Manual v. Automatic Thread

[Solomatrix]

what kind of transmission do airplanes have?

[ayrton88]

I guess AT guys would fly around in circles since they only use their right foot.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by happydog

what kind of transmission do airplanes have?

Hopefully its nothing like the MT in the 370Z or it will have a failing CSC.

[Tadpole]

No point in this continued argument. The m/the boys will never see the light until the day there aren't any left to buy. No one wants them anymore other than a few here on this forum thinking they are better somehow. There was a point and time about 30 years ago when there was the advantage of the m/t but technology has turned the tide again them. Sorry boys and girls, the auto is better and will continue to dominate. You are arguing a losing battle with no added benefit from the old, dilapidated, time consuming system that you use.

[Amuse370z]

...so...

how much are we talking about here to get a tranny swap from an A/T to a M/T

[LinPark]

Originally Posted by Tadpole

The m/the boys will never see the light until the day there aren't any left to buy.

As you stare into your AT Crystal Ball, when exactly do you foresee that will happen? I would wager I will be converting my 280Z to an electric before I convert it to an AT so I don't see MT disappearing from this earth before I do.

[wstar]

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Everyone i know with an automatic Z wishes they had a real manual trans at least a few times.

I don't, and you kinda know me now

You want the auto day today or when you are at the strip, but you bought an enthusiast car and didn't order the option that is the most fun

Who gets to define fun here? I find carving corners to be fun, and you can do that in any car. The Z happens to be a nice car to do it in, but the transmission choice doesn't really affect that. More likely than not, someday I'll spin this car into a tire wall or have a catastrophic mechanical failure, and I'll have some hard choices to make about repairing it back the way it was, dropping in a completely different drivetrain, or scrapping it and eventually starting a new track-car project. While all that's going on, I'll probably pick up a cheap used 90's Spec Miata or something to take to track events so I can keep having fun while I sort out the Z situation. At the end of the day it's just driving, and any sporty car is fun to drive (even a manual! )

, 2 grand cheaper

$1300 cheaper.

and you don't need to throw $6k at to get it to hold 500hp.

Doing a track-reliable/driveable 500hp FI build of this car is going to cost you so much time and money (on top of all the time and money everyone sinks into an NA track car) that a $6K trans upgrade on top isn't a big factor. I wouldn't go down that road to begin with though, because I'm not rich enough to afford to be able to do it right.

Sure you can buy a cheap turbo kit for $6-8K, but making a car like that reliable enough to flog the crap out of it all weekend 8-12 times a year (or more!) and not have it spend 3/4 of it's life sitting in shop after shop trying to fix it back up after the latest failure... you're gonna have to pay people that really know what they're doing a lot of money over a long time one way or another.

$6K for trans upgrades? I think I spent $6K just on my coilovers and BBK (actually, more ). Hell I've spent way more than $6K on just tires, wheels, and brake pads over the past few years.

At some point down the magical road to a track-prepped, reliable 500HP VQ, you'd probably realize it would've been way cheaper, more reliable, and more fun to have just bought yourself a used 2009 ZR1 'vette (or hell, even a new 2013). It's about the same base weight before you start gutting things, and they're out in the 650+ hp range bone stock. Not that all decisions have to be pragmatic. Feel free to go build an expensive unicorn, it sounds fun. But I'm just saying, don't bring the pragmatism of the cost of upgrading a 7AT into this...

Edit: everyone who does a forced induction or track build on an auto gets to sit there and wonder how much power and abuse will it take before it goes to **** an needs to be sent to a dealer to replace because the tcm is coded to the ecu, and wont work in another car, and is inside the transmission.

My track build is still kicking. The car's 5 years old now with somewhere north of 40K miles on it. I haven't tried to sort out the math from the era when it used to be street-driven and my log of past events, but I'd ballpark that at this point at least 5K of those are track miles. Track miles are hard on any car, they add up quick. Even on the ridiculously expensive but awesome Nismo RC version of our car, the recommended replace/rebuild interval on the engine is 10K track miles, IIRC.

The transmission has bugs (I should probably check for flash updates at the dealer for my 2009 TCM actually, it might solve a few bugs), but it's still kicking *** in spite of all the track abuse. It's not that hard to go ask a dealer to reprogram TCM stuff to mate a new trans if you had to. Honestly, I probably wouldn't, though. I'd either have a good AT shop rebuild mine and make it stronger and better, or I'd think about replacing the whole drivetrain (or the whole car!) with something else.

[Jordo!]

The argument ended when Jeremy Clarkson stopped complaining about "flappy paddle gearboxes". If that guy can let it go anybody can let it go (although I was a bit surprised to see a few posts on here about DCT being "better" just because a torque converter is not involved... not always a better option -- see further the terrible DCT on the veloceter).

The Top Gear guys don't bother with that complaint anymore because virtually every performance car they test has some form of manumatic.

This is starting to resemble the kind of argument among audiophiles... everybody who likes the Victrola can play their way -- with hisses and pops -- (while still available...) and everybody down with mp3's can have fun in their own fashion.

Originally Posted by LinPark

As you stare into your AT Crystal Ball, when exactly do you foresee that will happen? I would wager I will be converting my 280Z to an electric before I convert it to an AT so I don't see MT disappearing from this earth before I do.

I give it less than 25 years. Much less. Every serious performance car has a manumatic of some sort, no real motorsport uses anything resembling a traditional standard, and for many exotics it isn't even on the menu. It will become exclusively an economy option and then eventually eliminated entirely. It will be as easy to find as a carburetor on a new car.

Well before everyone has electric car, that's for sure.

[LinPark]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I give it less than 25 years. Much less. Every serious performance car has a manumatic of some sort, no real motorsport uses anything resembling a traditional standard, and for many exotics it isn't even on the menu. It will become exclusively an economy option and then eventually eliminated entirely. It will be as easy to find as a carburetor on a new car.

Well before everyone has electric car, that's for sure.

I'll repost this in 2039 right after I buy my 550Z with a 10 speed MT.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by LinPark

I'll repost this in 2039 right after I buy my 550Z with a 10 speed MT.

Ha ha -- ok, looking forward. I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong

[SouthArk370Z]

I don't see manuals disappearing any time soon but I think Jordo! is right that they will become mainly econo-box options and hi-po cars will steadily move toward automatics and shift-by-wire DCT-type (might as well be an auto) transmissions.

But a manual can sure be a lot more fun to drive under the right conditions. There will always be the diehards that will insist on a manual, no matter how much "better" the autos have become.

[winnre]

Met a young hottie who liked my car and wanted to sit in it, I told her she cam drive it around the parking lot. She said she cannot drive a manual shift. Then I told her it was an automatic.

She was VERY happy. None of this staring at a goat who can't drive a 'real' sports car. The transmission alone does not make the entire car.

BTW I hate the manual shift in my Subaru!

[FPenvy]

Originally Posted by Amuse370z

...so...

how much are we talking about here to get a tranny swap from an A/T to a M/T

.................not sure if serious.


but hey if the swap invovles an amuse part then just triple the cost of a regular swap. seems to be par for the course.

[LinPark]

Originally Posted by winnre

Met a young hottie who liked my car and wanted to sit in it, I told her she cam drive it around the parking lot. She said she cannot drive a manual shift. Then I told her it was an automatic.

She was VERY happy. None of this staring at a goat who can't drive a 'real' sports car. The transmission alone does not make the entire car.

BTW I hate the manual shift in my Subaru!

Not so sure I'd get involved with a young hottie who can't handle a stick. Just sayin'!

[Tadpole]

Yea but your right hand is free with the auto and the hot tie in your car!!