[OFFICIAL] Manual v. Automatic Thread

[wstar]

Relevant: an excerpt from a random unsolicited Youtube comment from the track video linked above. The commenter is a 6MT 370Z driver that runs in the same group with me (and has been doing it longer), who was out on track with me that day:

... What also impressed me was how much faster he can shift with the Nissan paddles versus my 6 speed. It was really impressive listening to him coming out of the Bus Stop and running through the gears - the up shifts and down shifts were so much faster than my Nissan manual...

[Mt Tam I am]

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

And it starts, manual vs auto for the 500th time.

I'll pour gas on the fire.
The auto shifts faster

As well it should for the added weight.

Originally Posted by wstar

Here's a better litmus test: if the 370Z came in a DCT version for the same money, would you take it? Some people would still choose the manual because they enjoy working the clutch and like the nostalgia of the skill of driving a manual (in which case I'd assume they turn *off* SRM all the time as well, right?). That's a valid choice, for all the right reasons. But if you'd rather have a DCT than a 6MT, you're missing out by not picking up the 7AT. For all practical purposes, there's just not much difference there. Our torque converter's lockup capabilities are pretty impressive, and the shift times are fast under load. Importantly, it also stays in gear. You can bounce the rev limiter all day if you want. It's not perfect, but it's way good enough.

I rejected the GTR for having an auto, so yes I would.
Nissan does not make the Nismo in auto for some reason.

[DEpointfive0]

Originally Posted by wstar

Here's a better litmus test: if the 370Z came in a DCT version for the same money, would you take it? Some people would still choose the manual because they enjoy working the clutch and like the nostalgia of the skill of driving a manual (in which case I'd assume they turn *off* SRM all the time as well, right?). That's a valid choice, for all the right reasons. But if you'd rather have a DCT than a 6MT, you're missing out by not picking up the 7AT. For all practical purposes, there's just not much difference there. Our torque converter's lockup capabilities are pretty impressive, and the shift times are fast under load. Importantly, it also stays in gear. You can bounce the rev limiter all day if you want. It's not perfect, but it's way good enough.

/thread


We should use this for all our 7AT vs M6 debates

[luigi90210]

Originally Posted by wstar

It's really not just as easy. There's a clutch pedal. The point of getting an auto and putting it in M-mode 24/7 is you get the driving benefits of a manual (being able to select the correct gear, which a normal auto in Drive never gets right for performance driving), but you don't have to be a heel-toe wizard to get smooth shifts. SRM on our 6MTs negates the heel-toe thing anyways, but still - why have one more pedal to worry about operating delicately to get the same result?



See, it's comments like these that turn this from a friendly debate into a "**** you you're not like me" sort of war.

no it is just as easy, the clutch work is nothing and i have been in LA traffic off the 405 with my Z and still no complaints about the car or the transmission, just the traffic

and comments like the ones i made are true, i dont know if you notice it but when i ride my bike around town, i see so many people driving automatic cars, slamming their brakes 20ft before every red light and every parked car and to top it all off, the person is usually texting, or dialing the phone while driving

with my MT, im always paying attention to the road because if i dont, ill stall out my car, i am not tempted to text while driving because i have to change gears manually, im not tempted to answer the phone when i am driving because i have to keep one hand free to either hold the steering wheel or shift

im not saying anyone here is like that, what i am saying is AT just feed that kind of bad behavior and it is something that needs to stop because it puts everyone at risk, not just the distracted driver but i digress

I have owned/own a few AT cars before, my GS-T Spyder Eclipse is an AT, the 05 altima sedan i use to own was an AT, there is nothing wrong with driving an AT, just i dont shift those cars manually because its an automatic, if i wanted to i could but then what was the point in buying it if i was going to drive it like a manual 24/7 pretending it is something that it is not

maybe that is just one of the mysteries in life ill just never understand but i dont think you or anyone else for that matter can make me see eye to eye with shifting a AT manually 24/7(i can understand using it to downshift to pass up a car or to get a sporty feel in a canyon but to shift it 24/7 as if it was a manual is just beyond me)

[4r3s]

if working a clutch is so easy, why would you need a light to tell you when to shift?

[2xtreme1]

Canadian Nismos have AT option I think ..or in Japan.

Driving the AT in M mode 24/7 is not a waste..
Its still a sports car..so being able to select gears and when to shift still makes it fun.
If I could get a 991 I would buy it with PDK and use M mode 24/7 ...and I'm sure it will be fun .

I also don't DD my Z ..Soo probably another reason I do M mode when I do drive it

[Red__Zed]

Originally Posted by 4r3s

if working a clutch is so easy, why would you need a light to tell you when to shift?

what?

[dmhenderson]

General Discussion forum ladies and gentlemen. Thank you and good night.

[DEpointfive0]

Originally Posted by dmhenderson

General Discussion forum ladies and gentlemen. Thank you and good night.

Lol, bye (Mark? Right?)

[Amuse370z]

The downshift on the AT7 is nothing I ever felt before in other Automatic cars with paddles. (Aside from DCT)

[b15]

If a sports car was offered in a manual optioned how I'd like I would pick It everytime over a dct. My shifts may not be as fast or precise but theres a sense of driving enjoyment I get with an MT that the AT guys and their paddles will never understand. And yes I've driven a 7AT z and g and flicking paddles is not the same, whether it bounces off the limiter or not.

If the sports car I was buying had ONLY an option for a dct then yes I'd get that. I'm not a corvette fan but i commend them for keeping a true manual in their top trim, the ZR1, unlike the gtr

[wstar]

^ I get that. There are a lot of drivers who just enjoy the Manual experience. I think "will never understand" isn't necessarily true. I drove a 6-speed car exclusively for a decade before buying the 7AT Z, and often made some of the anti-automatic comments seen in this thread. I can drive a stick pretty well (well, perhaps that's questionable now that I haven't touched one in 4 years!), I just don't want to anymore.

That's why I run it in M-mode 24/7 - I'm used to picking my gear, and I prefer to pick my gear. I know what gear the car should be in based on the situation, and a regular automatic in D-mode doesn't and never will. All an automatic gear-selector can see as input is "Hey we're travelling at 57mph and the engine's at 3,300 rpm and the gas pedal is at 3/8ths", it doesn't know things like "And he's about to make a sudden left turn under braking, so let's predictively move down a gear before we do, so that we have power on tap at the turn's exit, but we don't have to upset the car downshifting mid-corner to get that" versus "And we're about to cruise steadily at this speed for the next mile, let's move up a gear to save fuel and heat".

The act of choosing your gearing is integral to driving a car fully. The act of operating a manual clutch is just an artifact of the mechanism for switching gears.

[Mt Tam I am]

Originally Posted by wstar

^ I get that. There are a lot of drivers who just enjoy the Manual experience. I think "will never understand" isn't necessarily true. I drove a 6-speed car exclusively for a decade before buying the 7AT Z, and often made some of the anti-automatic comments seen in this thread. I can drive a stick pretty well (well, perhaps that's questionable now that I haven't touched one in 4 years!), I just don't want to anymore.

That's why I run it in M-mode 24/7 - I'm used to picking my gear, and I prefer to pick my gear. I know what gear the car should be in based on the situation, and a regular automatic in D-mode doesn't and never will. All an automatic gear-selector can see as input is "Hey we're travelling at 57mph and the engine's at 3,300 rpm and the gas pedal is at 3/8ths", it doesn't know things like "And he's about to make a sudden left turn under braking, so let's predictively move down a gear before we do, so that we have power on tap at the turn's exit, but we don't have to upset the car downshifting mid-corner to get that" versus "And we're about to cruise steadily at this speed for the next mile, let's move up a gear to save fuel and heat".

The act of choosing your gearing is integral to driving a car fully. The act of operating a manual clutch is just an artifact of the mechanism for switching gears.

I relate to the artifact. Similar to: I am the safety on my gun.

I do enjoy the experience. Thank you for recognizing this.

In other "flappy paddle" cars, going into reverse can be weird. Obviously this doesn't apply to the Z or you would not drive it 24/7 in manuel mode. Well done Nissan.

[4r3s]

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

what?

I was just trying to fit in with the stupidity in this thread...

[luigi90210]

Originally Posted by wstar

That's why I run it in M-mode 24/7 - I'm used to picking my gear, and I prefer to pick my gear. I know what gear the car should be in based on the situation, and a regular automatic in D-mode doesn't and never will. All an automatic gear-selector can see as input is "Hey we're travelling at 57mph and the engine's at 3,300 rpm and the gas pedal is at 3/8ths", it doesn't know things like "And he's about to make a sudden left turn under braking, so let's predictively move down a gear before we do, so that we have power on tap at the turn's exit, but we don't have to upset the car downshifting mid-corner to get that" versus "And we're about to cruise steadily at this speed for the next mile, let's move up a gear to save fuel and heat".

wait, so the 370z AT will not downshift for you to engine brake the car when you are braking?(IE you're coming up to a right turn, you brake so you can turn and the car will downshift automatically to a lower gear so you can make said turn)

see i was under the impression that all AT cars did that(well all normal AT cars), my eclipse does that, my altima did that, my friends auto civic does that, my moms merc kind of does that(she has some problems with the transmission shifting so it doesnt do it all the time)

the only AT cars i have driven that didnt do that were the CVT transmissions and it makes sense why it doesnt do it because CVTs technically do not have any gears

if the 370z AT doesnt do that then i can kinda see why someone would keep it in M 24/7(i still dont agree with it but i can understand the frustrations of not being in the right gear coming out of a turn, whether its on the track or on the streets)