Gas Pedal Delay

DIGItonium · 12-13-2012, 01:51 AM

It's not DBW. If it is, then we'd have this delay issue throughout the rev range. It's just held back in the lower RPMs, which is enough to bog at times (hot weather).

wstar · 12-13-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheshirecat

Eh, I shouldn't have to disable VDC to make a somewhat rushed left turn.

Just to elaborate, there was no traction loss and the clutch was fully disengaged. The car just kind of fell on its *** for a few seconds, then surged forward.

It was without a doubt an engine management issue. The management and engine (other than intake/exhaust) is stock. I agree that some sort of torque management is to blame.

It's a lot like what other people have described here.

Definitely an eye-opener.

You'd be surprised how subtly intrusive VDC can be. "Torque Management" is exactly what it's doing. It's a nice safety feature for the careless random driver who bought a Z for looks, but the way it operates it has no business being engaged on a sportscar being driven properly. I sometimes leave mine on for everyday driving in rainy conditions on unknown roads, where perhaps I can't predict every puddle I might slip on. But, IMHO, it's hard to accept any complaint about the throttle/engine/etc with VDC engaged, especially for remote diagnosis over the intarwebs. Step one is turn that button off and reproduce your scenario.

OMGiGOTaZ · 12-13-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

You'd be surprised how subtly intrusive VDC can be. "Torque Management" is exactly what it's doing. It's a nice safety feature for the careless random driver who bought a Z for looks, but the way it operates it has no business being engaged on a sportscar being driven properly. I sometimes leave mine on for everyday driving in rainy conditions on unknown roads, where perhaps I can't predict every puddle I might slip on. But, IMHO, it's hard to accept any complaint about the throttle/engine/etc with VDC engaged, especially for remote diagnosis over the intarwebs. Step one is turn that button off and reproduce your scenario.

I've started using sport mode more for turns rather than trying to finesse the Pedal... Even with VDC off... It's like the Manual guys say, the higher the RPM's the less bogging

IcedZ · 12-13-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Step one is turn that button off and reproduce your scenario.

Read the WHOLE thread. MANY of us HAVE. (ME!!) I turned that damn button off 90% of the time. I almost got into TWO accidents because of this problem. Hence why the car is gone. Well, one accident, and then I got rid of it because it wouldn't give me enough power to get going off of a hill and stalled out.

This is incredibly frustrating when people keep blaming VDC. It is NOT this. I even pulled that fuse.

kenny's 370z · 12-13-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oro

As an update since I switched to the Southbend SS with 14lb flywheel, the issue is still there but far less noticeable. I have a feeling it has to do with torque management + our clunky trans design with the lightened flywheel the car jumps off the line cuts throttle very quickly then ramps up like hell if you push it quickly around 1- 1.5k rpm, it didn't fix the problem but it shortened the "return time" in a big way when the car ramps its power back up.

you shouldnt have to have a return time.it should have normal predictable power like every other car.but,it doesnt

bushman66 · 12-13-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

You'd be surprised how subtly intrusive VDC can be. "Torque Management" is exactly what it's doing. It's a nice safety feature for the careless random driver who bought a Z for looks, but the way it operates it has no business being engaged on a sportscar being driven properly. I sometimes leave mine on for everyday driving in rainy conditions on unknown roads, where perhaps I can't predict every puddle I might slip on. But, IMHO, it's hard to accept any complaint about the throttle/engine/etc with VDC engaged, especially for remote diagnosis over the intarwebs. Step one is turn that button off and reproduce your scenario.

It is NOT the VDC. Repeat it is NOT the VDC. When it is hot outside the car flat out falls on its face off the line. Now that we are seeing cooler temps outside, no bogging or delay whatsoever. I run the Z1 34 row cooler and never see oil temps above 200-205, even in 110 degree PHX summer temps. When it is warm outside, the car bogs 100% of the time...including when the VDC is switched off.

bushman66 · 12-13-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm sorry, but there's no way that's from a little extra heat in the engine. More than one issue is being confused in this thread, repeatedly. What you're describing sounds like VDC to me, which is a whole separate issue. Even if our engine was at half its potential power due to some monumentally bad tuning at higher temperatures (and it's not...), it would still have enough power to get up and go in traffic.

You are 100% WRONG on this. I disable the VDC EVERY time I drive the car. Now that we are experiencing 50-60 degree temps here in PHX the issue has disappeared. When its 85 degrees+ the car bogs 100% of the time. Its a temperature issue, not related to the oil temps, since those are now running no hotter than 200 degrees ever.

This is a NISSAN design flaw in their engine management software...or a sensor issue. NOTHING else it could be.

bushman66 · 12-13-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheshirecat

This issue goes beyond drag racers. I almost got tboned because the engine decided to bog when turning across a few lanes of traffic.

Most of the time it isn't that bad, but it is a serious problem.

EXACTLY. Nothing more disconcerting than to press the accelerator and...NOTHING for 2-3 seconds.

Caustic · 12-13-2012, 12:41 PM

Would Uprev fix this?

wstar · 12-13-2012, 12:42 PM

I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC.

Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic.

Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go".

OMGiGOTaZ · 12-13-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC.

Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic.

Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go".

Coming from a 4 Cylinder Hyundai and 4cyl Audi Turbo before that, they both had bogging when mashing from a U turn which is when the Z has caughten me off guard and I expected different. Although I do see the traction light at times when I know I'm in full control, so I do also feel there is something Nissan could improve on there!

bushman66 · 12-14-2012, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC.

Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic.

Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go".

"The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6." Whatever.
My 2012 FJ Cruiser is a V6 too and it does not bog when the weather heats up. Its not a drivers issue, poor maintenance, poor tuning, etc. Its a FLAW. Sorry that we are raining on your "Nissan can't be wrong" parade. I'm done reading YOUR posts on this, and will continue to see if someone else posts something useful to help solve this NISSAN FLAW on this thread.

DIGItonium · 12-14-2012, 08:13 AM

I get this once in awhile and we all are already familiar how the car falls flat on its face in hot weather. It was in the low 50s and oil temps were at least 160-170. The drive from work was fine. I was at home briefly and left to go out to dinner. The car decided not to make much power. I accelerated in 1st and 2nd as usual and when it got to 3k or so it felt like someone took my foot off. I even floored it and it felt like I was in the wrong gear. Later I found myself flooring it several times in 1st and 2nd and it felt similar to accelerating in 5th at low speeds. It wasn't making any power. I couldn't get it to boost either at WOT past4k.

Everything seems fine. It idles and cruises well. Afterward the car was fine again.

The car doesn't scream either so it feels like throttle isn't opening up fully. Definitely going to get it checked. My tech thinks something is wrong with the throttles after describing times I had difficulty starting the car. Maybe it needs cleaning. [Shrugs]

[EDIT] Morning drive was fine. I can get boost easily in any gear at half throttle at 3k. The car will get tail happy if i floor it in 2nd or 3rd haha. Weird?

wstar · 12-14-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushman66

"The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6." Whatever.
My 2012 FJ Cruiser is a V6 too and it does not bog when the weather heats up. Its not a drivers issue, poor maintenance, poor tuning, etc. Its a FLAW. Sorry that we are raining on your "Nissan can't be wrong" parade. I'm done reading YOUR posts on this, and will continue to see if someone else posts something useful to help solve this NISSAN FLAW on this thread.

Yeah, I'm the Nissan Can't Be Wrong guy

I'm also terrified of the fact that you'll never read any of my posts on some message board. How do you expect someone to help you with this NISSAN FLAW? Have you investigated all possible causes? Can you repeat the problem accurately under a given set of conditions? Have you tried modifying those conditions in various unbiased ways to see which of the conditions might be unrelated? Can you accurately describe this repeatable problem in excruciating detail? Does that exactly match up with the symptoms of everyone else you're ganging up with on this issue?

Make an effort to rationally solve the problem instead of jumping on the Nissan Sucks bandwagon without any real cause is all I'm asking. I don't think heat alone is your problem. It's not a big enough factor to describe the catastrophe everyone's describing here. There's some other understandable fault here, one that can be isolated and remedied.

For the most part, this thread is a long list of people who apparently share similar symptoms, at least vaguely similar, and at least as a one-off event. That doesn't make for a shared defect on Nissan's part. Everyone needs to get to the bottom of their problem and see if there's a shared cause. Who knows what you'll find. Perhaps you'll find that 6% of all 370Z owners experience these symptoms, and over 90% of those reports end up having a root cause of a faulty sensor wire that comes loose too easily and screws up the ECU's behavior. Then you could come back and say "Nissan sucks, they can't make good sensor wire connections." Or it could turn out to be more like 2% of all users having this vague symptom, but the causes don't line up. You end up with 10 different causes. One of them's a few fluke sensor wires coming loose, a real defect. One's a dirty MAF sensor. One's a guy didn't realize one of his PCV hoses came loose after installing an aftermarket intake. Another had bad gas, etc. A large chunk of them didn't turn off VDC to test, even if you did.

You can't know until you do the investigation part. What this thread acts like now is more like a mob.

DIGItonium · 12-14-2012, 11:56 AM

Add to the list is the brake switch. I had similar issues, but I wish there's an easier way to check to see if the brake switch is intermittent. The SLIP light won't indicate the car is cutting power due to faulty brake switch anyhow. I may go ahead and get it checked or suggest replacement.

12-13-2012, 01:51 AM	#901 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	It's not DBW. If it is, then we'd have this delay issue throughout the rev range. It's just held back in the lower RPMs, which is enough to bog at times (hot weather). __________________

12-13-2012, 12:42 PM	#910 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC. Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic. Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go". OMGiGOTaZ likes this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

12-14-2012, 08:13 AM	#913 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	I get this once in awhile and we all are already familiar how the car falls flat on its face in hot weather. It was in the low 50s and oil temps were at least 160-170. The drive from work was fine. I was at home briefly and left to go out to dinner. The car decided not to make much power. I accelerated in 1st and 2nd as usual and when it got to 3k or so it felt like someone took my foot off. I even floored it and it felt like I was in the wrong gear. Later I found myself flooring it several times in 1st and 2nd and it felt similar to accelerating in 5th at low speeds. It wasn't making any power. I couldn't get it to boost either at WOT past4k. Everything seems fine. It idles and cruises well. Afterward the car was fine again. The car doesn't scream either so it feels like throttle isn't opening up fully. Definitely going to get it checked. My tech thinks something is wrong with the throttles after describing times I had difficulty starting the car. Maybe it needs cleaning. [Shrugs] [EDIT] Morning drive was fine. I can get boost easily in any gear at half throttle at 3k. The car will get tail happy if i floor it in 2nd or 3rd haha. Weird? __________________ Last edited by DIGItonium; 12-14-2012 at 09:12 AM.

12-14-2012, 11:56 AM	#915 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	Add to the list is the brake switch. I had similar issues, but I wish there's an easier way to check to see if the brake switch is intermittent. The SLIP light won't indicate the car is cutting power due to faulty brake switch anyhow. I may go ahead and get it checked or suggest replacement. __________________

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12-13-2012, 12:41 PM	#909 (permalink)
Caustic Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 243 Drives: '02 Acura NSX Rep Power: 13	Would Uprev fix this?